[arista]

Originally Posted by lostalex

This makes me have much less sympathy for a wedding party being bombed. pure truth. EVIL.

Typical Self Serving American Attitude


Drones are Murdering loads
of familys near to the USA picked target


America is as Evil
as Isis

Fecking Fact

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

Typical Self Serving American Attitude

Drones are Murdering loads
of familys near to the USA picked target

America is as Evil
as Isis

Fecking Fact

What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? Come on Arista.

Thank feck for America, God bless her, and long may she exist. Without her we would already be living under the 'Third Reich' and have Nazi storm-troopers jackboots marching up and down the Mall or worse.

There is absolutely no way that genuine, unavoidable collateral damage in warfare could ever be compared to the inhuman, deliberate, slaughter of helpless innocent human beings by these insane, inhuman, devils.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????? Come on Arista.

Thank feck for America, God bless her, and long may she exist. Without her we would already be living under the 'Third Reich' and have Nazi storm-troopers jackboots marching up and down the Mall or worse.

There is absolutely no way that genuine, unavoidable collateral damage in warfare could ever be compared to the inhuman, deliberate, slaughter of helpless innocent human beings by these insane, inhuman, devils.

There's not much point mentioning ww2, the United States post-cold war is not the same country as the WW2 United States. The American people (most of them, anyway) are not as twisted as the people over there but, then, they don't live in a perpetual war zone. The politics of the US are putrid. The uncomfortable fact is, as awful as ISIS is, as much as they need to be stopped, without the modern United States, ISIS simply wouldn't exist.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's not much point mentioning ww2, the United States post-cold war is not the same country as the WW2 United States. The American people (most of them, anyway) are not as twisted as the people over there but, then, they don't live in a perpetual war zone. The politics of the US are putrid. The uncomfortable fact is, as awful as ISIS is, as much as they need to be stopped, without the modern United States, ISIS simply wouldn't exist.

No country is the same as 60 years ago, no people are - the world has degenerated, but the fact remains that America were our allies in WW2 and still are now. Europe? Don't make me laugh. The floods of Eastern European immigrants into this country are overwhelmingly Muslim and detest us, the 'active' forces in Europe are Islamic and detest us and the 'Silent and Passive' majority are irrelevant.

I stand back in amazement at how much anti-American and Anti-Israeli bile is spewed in this country, but I know firmly where I align myself.

Just for my education T.S. - please explain to me just 'how' the 'modern United States' created ISIS?

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's not much point mentioning ww2, the United States post-cold war is not the same country as the WW2 United States. The American people (most of them, anyway) are not as twisted as the people over there but, then, they don't live in a perpetual war zone. The politics of the US are putrid. The uncomfortable fact is, as awful as ISIS is, as much as they need to be stopped, without the modern United States, ISIS simply wouldn't exist.

I agree the politics of the US are putrid, corruption at all levels dressed up as lobbying, Capitalism run riot. A country where dog eats dog and fcuk everyone else. A Country where nobody really gives a sh it about anyone.

But the worst part is at the top where you would expect to see honestly and integrity but there is none, just individual greed and self interest.

Appeasing the Multi National Corporations by allowing the most ridulous laws to be passed, laws that allow human faeces to be present in their food, their water to be contaminated, most of the population to be fed pills like smarties.

But more worrying is that the US to try and stay ahead of the game and keep the mirage of world Hegemony alive, have to start War after War and destabilise Country after Country in the name of bringing "democracy" to Countries that he lived peacefully for thousands of years.

Sometime the sheer arrogance of the US takes my breath away...!!!!

So, Yes the US now is but a shadow of it's former self, Capitalism,Big Business and individual greed is destroying this once great Country from within.

Painful to watch....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by arista

Typical Self Serving American Attitude


Drones are Murdering loads
of familys near to the USA picked target


America is as Evil
as Isis

Fecking Fact

actually it's not a fact. America has never TARGETTED INNOCENT civilians. ISIS does target innocents on purpose.

No country does more to prevent innocent casualties in war than Americans. America is the least evil country in the history of the world.

[Marc]

what. the. ****.

[user104658]

Kirklancaster - just to pose a hypothetical question - a newborn baby is taken from a Terrorist encampment. Let's say both parents are terrorists guilty of high level savagery, hundreds of brutal killings of innocent people, torture, the works. basically the worst of the worst. And they have been killed by a raid of the camp and then the baby found and taken away...

The baby is then brought to America or the UK and raised in a peaceful, loving, well-off and comfortable home by devoted parents in a small, quiet village with an excellent school.

Do you genuinely believe that this baby would grow up to be a sadistic / inhumane adult and it's inevitable that they will commit, or at least have a desire to commit, violent crimes?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirklancaster - just to pose a hypothetical question - a newborn baby is taken from a Terrorist encampment. Let's say both parents are terrorists guilty of high level savagery, hundreds of brutal killings of innocent people, torture, the works. basically the worst of the worst. And they have been killed by a raid of the camp and then the baby found and taken away...

The baby is then brought to America or the UK and raised in a peaceful, loving, well-off and comfortable home by devoted parents in a small, quiet village with an excellent school.

Do you genuinely believe that this baby would grow up to be a sadistic / inhumane adult and it's inevitable that they will commit, or at least have a desire to commit, violent crimes?

some things are inherent. My dad was an addict, he overdosed in his 20's. i recently learned this. i was adopted and raised by 2 parents that were not addicts.

I am an alcoholic. i clearly have addiction, even though my adoptive parents were not addicts. i believe i got it from my dad even though i never met him.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by lostalex

some things are inherent. My dad was an addict, he overdosed in his 20's. i recently learned this. i was adopted and raised by 2 parents that were not addicts.

I am an alcoholic. i clearly have addiction, even though my adoptive parents were not addicts. i believe i got it from my dad even though i never met him.

Some traits CAN be inherited but not necessarily. My mother was an alcoholic of such severity that she died from liver failure last March aged 59, and I can say with conviction that I am not an addict. It's dangerous to assume inherited traits are a certainty, in my opinion.

Which leads me on to Kirklancaster's large post. I think you're venturing into slightly dangerous territory if I'm honest, Kirk. Personally I think it's somewhat ludicrous to brand an entire genetic subset of people as inherently violent or psychotic... especially whilst completely ignoring the larger global context of these conflicts and suggesting that western nations are morally superior by nature rather than by circumstance. The reason I believe this to be dangerous thinking, is that you are essentially saying that these nations can't be helped or fixed as any replacement power structure would also be made up of these "genetically tainted" people and therefore doomed to follow a path of war once again. The only solution, if that is the case, is to advocate genocide.

And I don't think you're alone in that way of thinking, Kirk. I think the world is on a very dark path at the moment, and in a hundred years looking back, it will be very difficult to identify who was "evil". Or, rather, it'll be hard to point to anyone who wasn't.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by lostalex

some things are inherent. My dad was an addict, he overdosed in his 20's. i recently learned this. i was adopted and raised by 2 parents that were not addicts.

I am an alcoholic. i clearly have addiction, even though my adoptive parents were not addicts. i believe i got it from my dad even though i never met him.

Its not so much we inherit addictive personalities as personalities lend themselves to addiction.

If that makes sense

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Kirklancaster - just to pose a hypothetical question - a newborn baby is taken from a Terrorist encampment. Let's say both parents are terrorists guilty of high level savagery, hundreds of brutal killings of innocent people, torture, the works. basically the worst of the worst. And they have been killed by a raid of the camp and then the baby found and taken away...

The baby is then brought to America or the UK and raised in a peaceful, loving, well-off and comfortable home by devoted parents in a small, quiet village with an excellent school.

Do you genuinely believe that this baby would grow up to be a sadistic / inhumane adult and it's inevitable that they will commit, or at least have a desire to commit, violent crimes?

An excellent question T.S, and one which has no definitive answer.

There has been quite a lot of research into just how causal, genetic and environmental factors are in psycopathic personality traits, and into the genetic inheritance of such traits in the children of serial killers, but as far as I am aware, no such research has ever been carried out specifically into the offspring of terrorists.

One study (in Stockholm in 2002, I think) into the children of serial killers who were adopted as infants and raised by ‘normal’ non-sociopath parents, found that all of the children studied definitely possessed inherited psychopathic tendancies, but the report concluded that positive environmental influences early in life can prevent such tendencies from ever manifesting themselves.

I know there have been other similar studies into twins which came to similar conclusions,

I think of it as the estranged children of psychopaths having ‘time bombs’ in their brains or psyche, and some can live normal lives, whilst others who encounter the precise set of circumstances needed to ‘detonate’ that bomb, will explode.

Even if we agree that the children of evil terrorists who are adopted by normal parents and raised in a stable, loving home as in your hypothesis, will grow up completely normal despite their ‘genetic inheritance’, it is physically impossible to ‘transplant’ in such a manner, all the children of such vermin from the corrupt seedbed of their homelands.

History also teaches us, that these terrorists as a race, as a religion, as Nations, cannot be reasoned with, cannot be appeased, cannot be educated or reformed. Therefore, it is not difficult to see how the bestial, evil, inhuman, characteristics of these sub-humans has endured for thousands of years and will never change by it's own volition. To illustrate this - and at the risk of yet again 'pissing off' other forum members by another lengthy post - I reproduce below an abridgment from an article in the Mail:

"Every year the kindergartens of Gaza graduate a new class of children dressed like terrorists and suicide bombers. A teacher explained that, “In every year’s kindergarten graduation ceremonies we focus on the children to represent the role of struggling and resistance in the way of Allah.”

"One child spoke of wanting to blow himself and kill the most Jews."

"Children’s magazines and television shows encourage them to kill and die using everything from songs to costumed characters. On 'Pioneers of Tomorrow', the children are urged to grow up to kill Jews. “All of them?” a little girl is asked “Yes” is her reply.


When a Hamas spokesman encouraged the use of human shields, he cited the case of Nizar Riyyan, a Hamas leader who deliberately surrounded himself with his own children when he knew that an attack was coming and asked other family members if they would like to die as martyrs with him.

But Hamas, like the PLO and Islamic jihad, doesn't just use its own children as cannon fodder. It sets out to kill Jewish children.

A Hamas terrorist attack on a Jerusalem 'Sbarro' pizzeria filled with women and children, killed 7 children, including an 8-year-old girl and a 2-year-old boy and many other children were wounded. A 3 year-old girl was lifted up by the explosion and landed on broken glass.

“There were people – babies – thrown through the window and covered with blood,” an eyewitness described the horrifying scene.

A New Yorker described, “Wading through bodies, including the bodies of children.”

“The worst thing I saw, which I think will haunt me all my life, is a baby that was sitting in a stroller outside a shop and was dead,” another eyewitness related.

“After the explosion, the baby’s mother came out of the store and started screaming hysterically.”

One of the Hamas terrorists involved in the attack described her reaction and the Muslim reaction.

“While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another, they said on the radio that there had been a martyrdom attack at the Sbarro restaurant, and that three people were killed. I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said ‘three dead,’ I said: ‘Allah be praised.'”

“Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn't. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.”

Another of the Hamas terrorists involved in the attack said, “We have to send them a message that their children are not safe.”

The father of the Hamas suicide bomber, who came from a wealthy family, explained his motive. “We have to get rid of the Jews.”

Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, the religious leader of the “moderate” Muslim Brotherhood, the parent organization of Hamas and Al Qaeda, had said, “Suicide attacks represent the highest level of martyrdom, because there are no civilians in Israel.”

“We have the children bomb and these human bombs must continue until liberation.”

Sheikh Rashid Ghannouchi, of Tunisia’s equally 'moderate' Islamist Ennahda Movement, said, “There are no civilians in Israel. The population—males, females and children—are the army reserve soldiers, and thus can be killed.”

Ennahda’s takeover of Tunisia has been described as the only “true success” of the Arab Spring.

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the religious leader of Hamas, had said, “There are no civilians in Israel, they are all military, all occupiers.”

Ismail Abu Shanab, one of the founders of Hamas, often described by the media as the most moderate Hamas leader, echoed the old monster, “There are no civilians in Israel.”

Article Seven of the Hamas Charter had already made it clear that the climax of its religious war would come with the complete extermination of all Jews.

That meant, as Rachid Ghannouchi had said, the extermination of men, women… and children.

Hamas uses its own children as human shields and cannon fodder. And it seeks to kill as many Jewish children as possible.

When Israelis accidentally kill Muslim children during a war, the country is traumatized. When Muslims kill Jewish children, they celebrate, like the passengers who applauded every time they heard another report of murdered Jewish children come in over the radio.

The Sbarro attack continues to be celebrated and commemorated by Hamas because the murder of children embodies its Islamic religious values.

Shaykh Ibn Uthaymins, one of the leading Islamic religious figures in Saudi Arabia, explained why women and children should be killed. “What is apparent is that it is allowed for us to kill their women and children, even if that were to cause us to miss taking them as wealth (slaves), due to its breaking the hearts of the enemy.”

“If we don’t kill them, this is a humiliation for us,” the Islamic cleric added.“The honor of the Muslims is more important than wealth.”
This fatwa was quoted by Anwar Al-Awlaki, the leading propagandist of Al Qaeda.

For Hamas, as for Al Qaeda and Boko Haram and countless other Islamic terrorist groups, dead children are a source of pride. They fill their own children up with a culture of death and they celebrate when the children of non-Muslims are murdered by their children.

A death cult rules over Gaza. It wants the death of children on both sides and it is responsible for the deaths of children on both sides

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

An excellent question T.S, and one which has no definitive answer.

There has been quite a lot of research into just how causal, genetic and environmental factors are in psycopathic personality traits, and into the genetic inheritance of such traits in the children of serial killers, but as far as I am aware, no such research has ever been carried out specifically into the offspring of terrorists.

One study (in Stockholm in 2002, I think) into the children of serial killers who were adopted as infants and raised by ‘normal’ non-sociopath parents, found that all of the children studied definitely possessed inherited psychopathic tendancies, but the report concluded that positive environmental influences early in life can prevent such tendencies from ever manifesting themselves.

I know there have been other similar studies into twins which came to similar conclusions,

I think of it as the estranged children of psychopaths having ‘time bombs’ in their brains or psyche, and some can live normal lives, whilst others who encounter the precise set of circumstances needed to ‘detonate’ that bomb, will explode.

Even if we agree that the children of evil terrorists who are adopted by normal parents and raised in a stable, loving home as in your hypothesis, will grow up completely normal despite their ‘genetic inheritance’, it is physically impossible to ‘transplant’ in such a manner, all the children of such vermin from the corrupt seedbed of their homelands.

History also teaches us, that these terrorists as a race, as a religion, as Nations, cannot be reasoned with, cannot be appeased, cannot be educated or reformed. Therefore, it is not difficult to see how the bestial, evil, inhuman, characteristics of these sub-humans has endured for thousands of years and will never change by it's own volition. To illustrate this - and at the risk of yet again 'pissing off' other forum members by another lengthy post - I reproduce below an abridgment from an article in the Mail:

"Every year the kindergartens of Gaza graduate a new class of children dressed like terrorists and suicide bombers. A teacher explained that, “In every year’s kindergarten graduation ceremonies we focus on the children to represent the role of struggling and resistance in the way of Allah.”

"One child spoke of wanting to blow himself and kill the most Jews."

"Children’s magazines and television shows encourage them to kill and die using everything from songs to costumed characters. On 'Pioneers of Tomorrow', the children are urged to grow up to kill Jews. “All of them?” a little girl is asked “Yes” is her reply.


When a Hamas spokesman encouraged the use of human shields, he cited the case of Nizar Riyyan, a Hamas leader who deliberately surrounded himself with his own children when he knew that an attack was coming and asked other family members if they would like to die as martyrs with him.

But Hamas, like the PLO and Islamic jihad, doesn't just use its own children as cannon fodder. It sets out to kill Jewish children.

A Hamas terrorist attack on a Jerusalem 'Sbarro' pizzeria filled with women and children, killed 7 children, including an 8-year-old girl and a 2-year-old boy and many other children were wounded. A 3 year-old girl was lifted up by the explosion and landed on broken glass.

“There were people – babies – thrown through the window and covered with blood,” an eyewitness described the horrifying scene.

A New Yorker described, “Wading through bodies, including the bodies of children.”

“The worst thing I saw, which I think will haunt me all my life, is a baby that was sitting in a stroller outside a shop and was dead,” another eyewitness related.

“After the explosion, the baby’s mother came out of the store and started screaming hysterically.”

One of the Hamas terrorists involved in the attack described her reaction and the Muslim reaction.

“While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another, they said on the radio that there had been a martyrdom attack at the Sbarro restaurant, and that three people were killed. I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said ‘three dead,’ I said: ‘Allah be praised.'”

“Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn't. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.”

Another of the Hamas terrorists involved in the attack said, “We have to send them a message that their children are not safe.”

The father of the Hamas suicide bomber, who came from a wealthy family, explained his motive. “We have to get rid of the Jews.”

Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, the religious leader of the “moderate” Muslim Brotherhood, the parent organization of Hamas and Al Qaeda, had said, “Suicide attacks represent the highest level of martyrdom, because there are no civilians in Israel.”

“We have the children bomb and these human bombs must continue until liberation.”

Sheikh Rashid Ghannouchi, of Tunisia’s equally 'moderate' Islamist Ennahda Movement, said, “There are no civilians in Israel. The population—males, females and children—are the army reserve soldiers, and thus can be killed.”

Ennahda’s takeover of Tunisia has been described as the only “true success” of the Arab Spring.

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the religious leader of Hamas, had said, “There are no civilians in Israel, they are all military, all occupiers.”

Ismail Abu Shanab, one of the founders of Hamas, often described by the media as the most moderate Hamas leader, echoed the old monster, “There are no civilians in Israel.”

Article Seven of the Hamas Charter had already made it clear that the climax of its religious war would come with the complete extermination of all Jews.

That meant, as Rachid Ghannouchi had said, the extermination of men, women… and children.

Hamas uses its own children as human shields and cannon fodder. And it seeks to kill as many Jewish children as possible.

When Israelis accidentally kill Muslim children during a war, the country is traumatized. When Muslims kill Jewish children, they celebrate, like the passengers who applauded every time they heard another report of murdered Jewish children come in over the radio.

The Sbarro attack continues to be celebrated and commemorated by Hamas because the murder of children embodies its Islamic religious values.

Shaykh Ibn Uthaymins, one of the leading Islamic religious figures in Saudi Arabia, explained why women and children should be killed. “What is apparent is that it is allowed for us to kill their women and children, even if that were to cause us to miss taking them as wealth (slaves), due to its breaking the hearts of the enemy.”

“If we don’t kill them, this is a humiliation for us,” the Islamic cleric added.“The honor of the Muslims is more important than wealth.”
This fatwa was quoted by Anwar Al-Awlaki, the leading propagandist of Al Qaeda.

For Hamas, as for Al Qaeda and Boko Haram and countless other Islamic terrorist groups, dead children are a source of pride. They fill their own children up with a culture of death and they celebrate when the children of non-Muslims are murdered by their children.

A death cult rules over Gaza. It wants the death of children on both sides and it is responsible for the deaths of children on both sides

If we apply your brand of psychology to a different scenario, isn't it true that if you were to teach the next generation to distrust those from the other side of the world and perpetuate the myth that they are inherantly different to 'us?' And that 'they' can not be intergrated into a civilised society due to this is that not being equally as intolerant and indoctinating?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ArchAngel

If we apply your brand of psychology to a different scenario, isn't it true that if you were to teach the next generation to distrust those from the other side of the world and perpetuate the myth that they are inherantly different to 'us?' And that 'they' can not be intergrated into a civilised society due to this is that not being equally as intolerant and indoctinating?

Well, Kirklancaster's suggestion is that intolerance / indoctrination isn't the problem at all and that the people (Post-Persian races I'm assuming, I don't know how far he extends this hypothesis) are genetically predisposed towards being violent / sadistic. We couldn't therefore "teach" upcoming generations to be violently intolerant of others because we simply have "better genes"... and our intolerance would only be towards people who are of genetic inferiority (in terms, at least, of their trustworthiness).

I'd by lying is I said I don't find it, although an interesting point of view, quite a troubling one. In danger of Godwin's law rearing its' ugly head - the idea that the Jews possessed undesirable traits genetically (rather than, arguably, culturally) was one of Hitler's major justifications for eradicating them to essentially "save the world". I have no doubt that Hitler himself fully believed this and that, in his eyes, his actions were a necessary evil for the greater good. Again, I have to say that it's not something I believe at all, I don't think most terrorists were born predisposed to anything at all, but rather that there are cultural aspects of Islam (and, to be frank, all Abrahamic religions, there are some truly terrifying Christian organisations state-side) that lend themselves to indoctrination by certain people who have made indoctrination an art-form.

[Nedusa]

These attacks on Jewish people in Israel/ West Bank are few and far between compared with the almost daily unrelenting savage murderous attacks carried out on all Palestinian people for decades, so yes it is not difficult to see how a rare attack like this would be celebrated and used as a symbol of hope in this massively one sided evil subjugation and brutal occupation of the Palestinian people and their lands.





.

[JoshBB]

Oh my god :/ but saudia arabia does things like this more commonly..

[Nedusa]

Just watching tonight on Sky News to former British Soldiers going to Syria to fight ISIS.

Very brave men, hopefully the first of many, before the regular Army goes out there and snuffs out this band of evil spineless cowards.



.

[Crimson Dynamo]

they are at it again



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...wds-Syria.html

[Livia]

Oh... but according to this thread, the West is just as bad as ISIS. And anyway, it's all the West's fault. Oh, and Israel's. We made them do this... apparently and the people who need to feel guilty is... us.

I despair of this place and its insular, two-dimensional opinions.