[Livia]

Originally Posted by Josy

It mentions above that they are also going to target drink and drug users

Oh, thanks Josy. I don't have a problem with it then.

[Vicky.]

In principle I dont have a problem with it, however..I dont see how it will help anything. As I said these people wont find a job (one they are unlikely to anyway if they are ill from their weight/problems, and 2 the jobs arent there even for the healthy) and will have no option but to turn to crime...which helps noone.

Also the nhs argument doesnt hold up because unhealthy people cost less in the long run...if everyone tomorrow started eating healthy and gave up their vices, and we started living to 100...the nhs would collapse as we would have to pay for a lot more 24/7 care for age related disease such as alzheimers which is much more expensive than the odd bypass due to eating crap. Same argument as smokers really...

[Northern Monkey]

So they do this and we get loads of obese people living on the streets,Well they'd certainly lose weight then.Ridiculous.
How would they even put this into practice?Clog up the NHS more by having weekly weigh-ins at the docs who would then have report his findings to the benefits office?
Why not help people to lose weight?Slimfast vouchers or Slimming World and gym membership?not demonising people for what they eat.Too much control and interfering in peoples lives.
However obesity alone due to lazyness and greed should not be a reason to be able to claim disability living allowance in the first place imo.Fair enough if it is a symptom of a real illness.
As for Job Seekers allowance then as long as they are job seeking then their weight is nothing to do with anything.

[joeysteele]

For me, I just have not really come across anything as to ideas like this that come from David Cameron and this govt; that genuinely are looked at from the understanding,fair and compassion angle.

Nothing this man says as to things like this, inspire me with any confidence to trust him with peoples lives like this.
Since he has chosen to say it now, it is pretty clear to me that he wants this to be able to be done over the next parliament,if the Conservatives won in May.
For me, this is just another reason I hope they are not elected in May.

This needs to be looked at by those who are involved in the support of these people and know all the other conditions and needs that may have.
Before ascertaining all that, to shout this idea as he has, shows a plan to continue more demonising of some benefit claimants and to further penalise them more in my view.
I wouldn't trust David Cameron as to just about anything now.

I hope this 'review' he has asked for will list this as a non starter because I can see a lot of people being made to suffer more hardship and distress who are among the most vulnerable again probably.
To save tens of millions while others get away with not paying likely tens of billions.

[Vicky.]

Anyway, I assume this is to drum up more antibenefit sentiments to draw attention away from stories such as this, publicised today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31459067

[Livia]

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

How would they even put this into practice?Clog up the NHS more by having weekly weigh-ins at the docs who would then have report his findings to the benefits office?

They'll probably just use all the old closed down Whaleweigh stations.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Anyway, I assume this is to drum up more antibenefit sentiments to draw attention away from stories such as this, publicised today http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31459067

No I think there is room for all news Storys


This getting Obese people "that refuse work"
is also supported by Labour
but they do not want it on a Front page etc

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

Agree completely. However just stopping their income...is not help. Its the opposite of help and is likely to make their problems (and everyone elses in reality) a hell of a lot worse. The sad reality is though aswell, that some people are beyond help..or wont accept it. The problem we have there is to either keep supporting them (as lets be honest, they wouldn't find work anyway, not where there is something like 1 job for every 4 people on jsa to begin with) or to cut off everything from them, have them living on the streets begging/mugging people etc to survive.

I have said before and its not a popular view, until there is enough employment for those completely able and willing to work, I don't see what the need is in bothering with those few who don't want to/can't because of their own vices. Edit. I dont mean bothering as in helping them..I mean bothering as in trying to force them to work by threatening to take away their only form of income and such

I would rather those people had an income than run the risk of them attacking me or taking my stuff because we treat them like nothing. Even if in a lot of peoples eyes, they are nothing.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Here we likely go again,a chorus of words from this PM and this govt; fuelling in the media,more demonisation of sections of people claiming benefits.
I hope for their sakes, this PM is out of a job in May and his henchmen with him too.

I refuse to watch these ridiculous programmes on benefit scroungers because they very deliberately pick people with learning difficulties to be the stars of their shows.

Britain has been spread a lie and its been going on for the last couple of generations. If we are going to educate obese people about the wrongs in their diets then we need to explain why they have such glutinous addictions. Instead these doctors will suggest low fat products and exercise regimes.

Low fat foods have had all the roughage taken out of them and because food without roughage is tasteless, its injected with crystallized fructose. The entire burden of metabolising fructose falls on your liver, where is turned into free fatty acids which then get stored as fat. Fructose interferes with your brain's communication with leptin, resulting in making you feel hungry and overeating. Fructose is addictive; the more you eat, the more you need. It causes type two diabetes, cardiovascular disease, liver disease, cancer, arthritis and elevated bad cholesterol.

The problem is, us Brits have fructose in just about everything we buy off our supermarket shelves... unless its a totally natural product. Its even in baby formula and theres huge doses of it in diet products and soda. What's more, the manufacturers are under no obligation to label its ingredients as "fructose" but can merely add, "sweetener".

The French are a skinny lot, in fact I believe they are the thinnest nation in Europe and yet they consume more butter, bread, whole milk and cheese than the rest of us put together. What the French tend not to do is drink a lot of soda, eat a lot of take-aways/ready meals or graze between meals. Whilst they love their fatty foods, their diet is much more natural than ours.

America and Britain are the two biggest consumers of fructose and I call this obesity epidemic, the "fructose epidemic".

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I refuse to watch these ridiculous programmes on benefit scroungers because they very deliberately pick people with learning difficulties to be the stars of their shows.

Britain has been spread a lie and its been going on for the last couple of generations. If we are going to educate obese people about the wrongs in their diets then we need to explain why they have such glutinous addictions. Instead these doctors will suggest low fat products and exercise regimes.

Low fat foods have had all the roughage taken out of them and because food without roughage is tasteless, its injected with crystallized fructose. The entire burden of metabolising fructose falls on your liver, where is turned into free fatty acids which then get stored as fat. Fructose interferes with your brain's communication with leptin, resulting in making you feel hungry and overeating. Fructose is addictive; the more you eat, the more you need. It causes type two diabetes, cardiovascular disease, liver disease, cancer, arthritis and elevated bad cholesterol.

The problem is, us Brits have fructose in just about everything we buy off our supermarket shelves... unless its a totally natural product. Its even in baby formula and theres huge doses of it in diet products and soda. What's more, the manufacturers are under no obligation to label its ingredients as "fructose" but can merely add, "sweetener".

The French are a skinny lot, in fact I believe they are the thinnest nation in Europe and yet they consume more butter, bread, whole milk and cheese than the rest of us put together. What the French tend not to do is drink a lot of soda, eat a lot of take-aways/ready meals or graze between meals. Whilst they love their fatty foods, their diet is much more natural than ours.

America and Britain are the two biggest consumers of fructose and I call this obesity epidemic, the "fructose epidemic".

Which tend to cost a bloody fortune and lets be honest, totally natural stuff is few and far between. Oddly enough the most effective way to lose weight is on a high fat, low carb diet.

Obesity IS a huge problem, but not just among the unemployed. I do feel the problem (along with not enough education about HOW to cook healthy..I mean at school we were constantly making cakes and stuff in food tech ) is how expensive it is to eat right compared to eat crap :S

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Which tend to cost a bloody fortune and lets be honest, totally natural stuff is few and far between. Oddly enough the most effective way to lose weight is on a high fat, low carb diet.

Obesity IS a huge problem, but not just among the unemployed. I do feel the problem (along with not enough education about HOW to cook healthy..I mean at school we were constantly making cakes and stuff in food tech ) is how expensive it is to eat right compared to eat crap :S

I agree, I'm half French and was raised on a typical French diet which includes lots of fatty food. I weigh 105lbs and my weight doesn't fluctuate. I don't find it expensive to eat natural food but I have to say, I probably eat a lot more green vegetables than what you would see in most English diets. I make my own sauces which is more time consuming than buying something ready made and I don't use tinned food. We also don't eat meat more than a couple of times a week but I tend to cook pork belly or beef mince. We do eat a lot of cheese dishes and I do make a couple of pies a week with full butter pastry.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't think it's antibenefit sentiment. I think if someone's living on benefits and refuses to do anything about their unemployability due to drink, drugs or obesity, then their position has to be looked at. The welfare system should be there for people who need it, but it shouldn't be a lifestyle choice for people who choose not to work. If someone can't find a job then the welfare system should be there to help them. If they've not found some kind of job after a couple of years then they must surely have some kind of problem. If the problem is obesity, drink or drugs, give them some help to get themselves together and become contributing members of society.

Agreed SOME of these people do NOT want to work,time to move their lazy asses.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I agree, I'm half French and was raised on a typical French diet which includes lots of fatty food. I weigh 105lbs and my weight doesn't fluctuate. I don't find it expensive to eat natural food but I have to say, I probably eat a lot more green vegetables than what you would see in most English diets. I make my own sauces which is more time consuming than buying something ready made and I don't use tinned food. We also don't eat meat more than a couple of times a week but I tend to cook pork belly or beef mince. We do eat a lot of cheese dishes and I do make a couple of pies a week with full butter pastry.

I mean compared to junk here, not sure if its different in France. When you compare say..the price of a few different kinds of veg, some potatoes and some fresh meat.. to a giant bag of chicken nuggets and a giant bag of fries for £1.50 each in iceland which would probably do a family of 4 for a couple of meals...well eating healthy seems a fortune in comparison. Especially to those on low incomes.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Agreed SOME of these people do NOT want to work,time to move their lazy asses.

But they still wont work, as the work isnt there for those do who want it, nevermind those who dont and are too fat/addicted to do so anyway

[DemolitionRed]

I think its really sad to see such huge obesity problems in this country. People are using mobility scooters because their own gluttony has disabled them. Nobody wants to be like that, so when we shout, "its self inflicted" we should perhaps all try to walk a mile in their shoes.

We see self induced illnesses through smoking, alcohol and drugs and now we are seeing it from the over consumption of food. If you asked an emphysema patient, if he was happy whilst he puffed away on a cigarette in between gulps from his oxygen mask, do you think his answer would be "yes"? its the same with obesity; whilst some may claim they like being big and round, they do so from shame and embarrassment. Nobody wants to be obese.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I mean compared to junk here, not sure if its different in France. When you compare say..the price of a few different kinds of veg, some potatoes and some fresh meat.. to a giant bag of chicken nuggets and a giant bag of fries for £1.50 each in iceland which would probably do a family of 4 for a couple of meals...well eating healthy seems a fortune in comparison. Especially to those on low incomes.

I read your post completely wrong and assumed you lived in france

Apologies

[waterhog]

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

[arista]

Originally Posted by waterhog

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

No Hog
this for more younger Obese folks
who Outright Refuse work
due to being Obese.


But Look at MP Eric Pickles
he ids Obese but works every day hard

[arista]

Originally Posted by waterhog

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

No Hog
this for more younger Obese folks
who Outright Refuse work
due to being Obese.


But Look at MP Eric Pickles
he is Obese but works every day hard

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

No Hog
this for more younger Obese folks
who Outright Refuse work
due to being Obese.


But Look at MP Eric Pickles
he is Obese but works every day hard

Where does it say this?

I see no clarification between ages/previous employment/etc. Just 'rarrr obese'.

[Vicky.]

Tbf too IDS could do with losing a few pounds himself. Maybe he should have less full englishes paid for by the public purse What he spends on one breakfast would support another person for half a week...

[InOne]

I'm glad not many people actually pay attention to these faux outrage articles. Another good deflection by the media and government to divert us from the real problems of the country.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by waterhog

just to complicate the issue think about this one - you work from your 16 till 49 and you are made redundant. you have always been large all your life. from being in a job so long has not given you the need to get any other education as you have had maoney comming in and not needed to worry about it.

are you tell me that this person has worked all his life and through no fault of his own as he is made redundant he will not be alliwed to claim benefit after paying in tax all his working life -


smells very rotten to me.

That is a good point and a very valid one that is discounted by those who just want to bash benefit claimants overall.

You see,I hear this govt saying that no one on benefits should be getting in as benefits more than if they were in work.
Another example similar to what you have said, I came across someone who had worked over 45 years from leaving school.
His memory started to fade and he had to give up work, why should he too, have to take such a massive drop in income for being genuinely ill.

What he is getting is a pittance compared to his original salary, paying into a system for all his working life, then having to hear people on benefits demonised and got at all the time.
For me, people likek him should certainly have more coming in than he has and this govt; along with presvious govts; too,Labour failed too, never go looking for the people who should be getting certain benefits which are provided.
We rarely if ever, hea of the benefits that go unclaimed by people, however govt;s never lift a finger to make sure they get them.
That comes down to welfare organisations, the CAB and charities, if and when they come across a person who should have them.

Sadly some like to take the hard line and prefer to believe the media and this govt; with their 'odd' case of benefit cheats and it is very easy indeed to brand people lazy from looking in from the outside, branding them all the same,when more often than not that is not the case,as I found out, when you get out there and talk to and see how people are struggling.
Real support is a good thing, support doesn't fit in with financial blackmail as to threat of loss of income however.
There is little in the way of any compassion and fairness from this PM as to these issues and as to supposed 'support'.