[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by adamski94

Because it takes jobs/benefits from British people who need them

Where's the evidence of this? What's the reasoning behind your criteria? If Immigrants taking unskilled jobs is so bad then surely immigrants taking jobs from hardworking Graduates is even worse?

If Immigrants are 'taking our jobs' why do you think this is the case?

I'm just trying to understand your point of view here.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Where's the evidence of this? What's the reasoning behind your criteria? If Immigrants taking unskilled jobs is so bad then surely immigrants taking jobs from hardworking Graduates is even worse?

If Immigrants are 'taking our jobs' why do you think this is the case?

I'm just trying to understand your point of view here.

Skilled jobs like Doctors and Nurse's are desperately needed in britian

[joeysteele]

To be fair to the govt; the original proposals of this was to have the age set at under 25s,it seems they have conceded a little that was perhaps too high and have made it under 21s

Any policy that helps, 'genuinely helps',rather than dictates, has to be welcomed so young people are never left to feel failures

I would like to see this work and am pleased to see it has been reduced to under 21s,rather than under 25s.
However, it would be even nicer if it took other circumstances into consideration too as on a personal level rather than a blanket policy overall.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by adamski94

I live in a town where most jobs are seasonal so for me I'm only working 6/7 months a year every job I had I've paid into the system but I know how hard it is to be young and trying to get a job

People in your situation should be treated differently, they probably won't though.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

To be fair to the govt; the original proposals of this was to have the age set at under 25s,it seems they have conceded a little that was perhaps too high and have made it under 21s

Any policy that helps, 'genuinely helps',rather than dictates, has to be welcomed so young people are never left to feel failures

I would like to see this work and am pleased to see it has been reduced to under 21s,rather than under 25s.
However, it would be even nicer if it took other circumstances into consideration too as on a personal level rather than a blanket policy overall.

Agree with all your points Joey

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by adamski94

Skilled jobs like Doctors and Nurse's are desperately needed in britian

I'd disagree with this statement, it's quite difficult to get a medical job these days, especially in the current climate. Like with most job markets, it's competitive.

I've got another question, if you wished to move to another country would you expect the same restrictions be placed on you? That you couldn't move unless you were in danger or if you had a highly skilled job? Define highly skilled job because if we're just talking medical professions then few people would ever be able to emigrate.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'd disagree with this statement, it's quite difficult to get a medical job these days, especially in the current climate. Like with most job markets, it's competitive.

I've got another question, if you wished to move to another country would you expect the same restrictions be placed on you? That you couldn't move unless you were in danger or if you had a highly skilled job? Define highly skilled job because if we're just talking medical professions then few people would ever be able to emigrate.

Places like Aus actually require something like this.

I would only move to another country if I felt It was best for everyone but I'd never rely on another nation government/handouts as I have no rights to them.

If I knew I was stopping someone else getting a job in there own country no way would I take it as I know what its like to struggle with finding work.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by adamski94

Places like Aus actually require something like this.

I would only move to another country if I felt It was best for everyone but I'd never rely on another nation government/handouts as I have no rights to them.

If I knew I was stopping someone else getting a job in there own country no way would I take it as I know what its like to struggle with finding work.

I think that's quite a rosy and unrealisitc outlook of the situation.

Surely if you're better suited for a role, it doesn't matter if you are an immigrant or were born here, you deserve the job more than the less qualified candidates.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think that's quite a rosy and unrealisitc outlook of the situation.

Surely if you're better suited for a role, it doesn't matter if you are an immigrant or were born here, you deserve the job more than the less qualified candidates.

As I said I'd take it if IIT was best for everyone including the company if they needed me then I'd definitely consider taking it but I wouldn't if I was say equally matched to another candidate

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by adamski94

As I said I'd take it if IIT was best for everyone including the company if they needed me then I'd definitely consider taking it but I wouldn't if I was say equally matched to another candidate

That's quite an easy statement to make but harder to live up to.

[the truth]

this is awesome news, bravo cameron

[user104658]

I have no problem with this so long as these young people are paid for any hours they're doing. Having a slightly lower wage for under 21's is fine, so long as we're still talking at least Ł4.50 - Ł5 an hour and not something ridiculous like the situations where some people are doing voluntary work for the equivalent of less than Ł2 an hour. That's never acceptable and, of course, if it really is about teaching people about the real world of work... In the real world, people get paid for their work.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have no problem with this so long as these young people are paid for any hours they're doing. Having a slightly lower wage for under 21's is fine, so long as we're still talking at least Ł4.50 - Ł5 an hour and not something ridiculous like the situations where some people are doing voluntary work for the equivalent of less than Ł2 an hour. That's never acceptable and, of course, if it really is about teaching people about the real world of work... In the real world, people get paid for their work.

there is a minimum wage for 18 to 21 yr olds....at that age I did any and every job for peanuts often to get experience and find contacts make relationships and get my foot under the door....some of the best times of my life and a zillion light years better than queuing in the job centre for a giro cheque

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I have no problem with this so long as these young people are paid for any hours they're doing. Having a slightly lower wage for under 21's is fine, so long as we're still talking at least Ł4.50 - Ł5 an hour and not something ridiculous like the situations where some people are doing voluntary work for the equivalent of less than Ł2 an hour. That's never acceptable and, of course, if it really is about teaching people about the real world of work... In the real world, people get paid for their work.

Yeah, I'd be all for this if it was paid work but you just know it's basically going to be community service and that **** is useless, you can't even put it on your CV since it makes you look bad.

[Piipp]

Originally Posted by empire

I believe banning housing benefits is right, but I would increase the dole money to minimum wage level, if they can find work for voluntary place, for two days a week, work schemes are useless and rip you off, you will never find work in those places, work schemes are the biggest waste of money, I think them places make you lazy and come out with less confidence, tory's only got one part of it right but the rest wrong, younger british workers are being turned away from fair paid jobs to cheap eastern Europe workers, who milk the system, and are not forced with the same policy,

We run work schemes in my workplace all the time and the large majority of those who have taken them have ended up with a job at the end of it. They work very well, provided those on the placement actually want to work.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Piipp

We run work schemes in my workplace all the time and the large majority of those who have taken them have ended up with a job at the end of it. They work very well, provided those on the placement actually want to work.

work placements are always the best step forward

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Cherie

People in your situation should be treated differently, they probably won't though.

lucky for him the tories are keeping zero hour contracts....you cant have 12 month contracts for seasonal jobs, idiotic new labour don't seem to have worked that out yet

[Samuel.]

What will the loss of housing benefit mean for the many 18 to 21 year olds relying on youth hostels?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Samuel.

What will the loss of housing benefit mean for the many 18 to 21 year olds relying on youth hostels?

Orphans...who cares about them?
This is the beginning of some horrific proposals, hold on to your hat.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Orphans...who cares about them?
This is the beginning of some horrific proposals, hold on to your hat.

there are exceptions to the rule....but more will work , more will develop skills and develop discipline and work ethic...the sick and disabled will be protected rightly and the muppets who breed for benefits will be curtailed

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Orphans...who cares about them?
This is the beginning of some horrific proposals, hold on to your hat.

I was pleased to see that age down from under 25s to under 21s, although we are still talking about 'official' adults here, aged 18 to 21.

You are right however,this is going ahead,I dread what is coming for the sick and disabled,it was way too severe and unacceptable the last 5 years.
Never mind what is being planned now against them.

Had he shifted Ian Duncan Smith, I may have hoped for a bit better,with that creep still in place,I almost despair for the most vulnerable now.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I was pleased to see that age down from under 25s to under 21s, although we are still talking about 'official' adults here, aged 18 to 21.

You are right however,this is going ahead,I dread what is coming for the sick and disabled,it was way too severe and unacceptable the last 5 years.
Never mind what is being planned now against them.

Had he shifted Ian Duncan Smith, I may have hoped for a bit better,with that cretin still in place,I almost despair for the most vulnerable now.

there is more money with the tories due to enormous jos growth and rise in gdp...so theres more to spread around and the tories have drawn a line between who deserves and who doesn't....so theres more chance of the real deserving recipients getting money than ever before....nothing has been done against the disabled? the benefits have gone up with inflation, Cameron said he wouldn't touch them...although a lot of the cheats have been caught out..... in fact more money has been invested into the nhs under the tories than labour plus they've scaled back the enormous waste corruption and middle management. all of which means more money for the front end....Cameron is targeting the workless people , the people who breed for benefits. his policies already clearly are targeting those non disabled people who choose not to work

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

there is more money with the tories due to enormous jos growth and rise in gdp...so theres more to spread around and the tories have drawn a line between who deserves and who doesn't....so theres more chance of the real deserving recipients getting money than ever before....nothing has been done against the disabled? the benefits have gone up with inflation, Cameron said he wouldn't touch them...although a lot of the cheats have been caught out..... in fact more money has been invested into the nhs under the tories than labour plus they've scaled back the enormous waste corruption and middle management. all of which means more money for the front end....Cameron is targeting the workless people , the people who breed for benefits. his policies already clearly are targeting those non disabled people who choose not to work

Sorry that is nonsense, and 10 billion pounds of cuts are now having to be found by this govt; that they would not say what they would be cutting.
Only what they wouldn't
Pensioner entitlements,child benefit.the only things left are jobseekers, they cannot save much from that it is only a palty weekly figure anyway.
They can hit carers allowance,which will hit the disabled.

Also if you think they did nothing against the sick and disabled, then get along to some of these re-assessments the sick and disabled have to attend and see how rotten they are treated there too.

PIP replacing DLA,is a nightmare to get, people have avoided claiming it unless they are pushed by some authority to do so.

People really ill with cancer, dementia and incurable conditions, worse still those with mental health problems, taken off what was incapacity, told they can do some work ad to claim jobseekers,or put in the wrag as to ESA, rather than the support group of ESA, where they should be.
having to endure endless months and up to a year or moreof fighting to get their rightful benefits restored to them.

People having to go to court who are sick and disabled,just to get their rightful entitlements, needing social workers and Doctors to provide endless evidence to support their claims.

That is what has happened to the sick, disabled and most vulnerable during this rotten heartless govt's; last 5 years in power.
maybe not where you are as you seem to live in a state of Utopia, in the rest of the real world however that is what is happening.
Try to get yourself along to the ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled,you may just get an eye opener.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Sorry that is nonsense, and 10 billion pounds of cuts are now having to be found by this govt; that they would not say what they would be cutting.
Only what they wouldn't
Pensioner entitlements,child benefit.the only things left are jobseekers, they cannot save much from that it is only a palty weekly figure anyway.
They can hit carers allowance,which will hit the disabled.

Also if you think they did nothing against the sick and disabled, then get along to some of these re-assessments the sick and disabled have to attend and see how rotten they are treated there too.

PIP replacing DLA,is a nightmare to get, people have avoided claiming it unless they are pushed by some authority to do so.

People really ill with cancer, dementia and incurable conditions, worse still those with mental health problems, taken off what was incapacity, told they can do some work ad to claim jobseekers,or put in the wrag as to ESA, rather than the support group of ESA, where they should be.
having to endure endless months and up to a year or moreof fighting to get their rightful benefits restored to them.

People having to go to court who are sick and disabled,just to get their rightful entitlements, needing social workers and Doctors to provide endless evidence to support their claims.

That is what has happened to the sick, disabled and most vulnerable during this rotten heartless govt's; last 5 years in power.
maybe not where you are as you seem to live in a state of Utopia, in the rest of the real world however that is what is happening.
Try to get yourself along to the ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled,you may just get an eye opener.

Fantastic informative post Joey thankyou so much

[the truth]

[QUOTE=joeysteele;7767286]Sorry that is nonsense, and 10 billion pounds of cuts are now having to be found by this govt; that they would not say what they would be cutting.
Only what they wouldn't

Pensioner entitlements,

child benefit - will be cut to visitors and qualification periods will extend up to 5 years. that's great and its fair, people must pay national insurance just like everyone else

.the only things left are jobseekers, they cannot save much from that it is only a palty weekly figure anyway. - they are not allowing 18 to 21 yr olds to go on this without either being on courses learning skills or working
They can hit carers allowance,which will hit the disabled.-labour hit carers allowance and cancelled it for pensioners too. labour also failed to merge the social service and health trust on home care. they also failed to claim back on the private medical carers insurance wasting the economy billions more

Also if you think they did nothing against the sick and disabled, then get along to some of these re-assessments the sick and disabled have to attend and see how rotten they are treated there too.- these were fair enough. the really sick and really disabled kept their benefits, even those treated unfairly had the right to appeal and appeal. millions claimed it falsely simply through developing poor health through poor lifestyle choices and obesity. that is a whole world away from having a disability



PIP replacing DLA,is a nightmare to get, people have avoided claiming it unless they are pushed by some authority to do so.....that makes no sense. pip pays more in many cases and seems to have weeded out the many cheats.

People really ill with cancer, dementia and incurable conditions, worse still those with mental health problems, taken off what was incapacity, told they can do some work ad to claim jobseekers,or put in the wrag as to ESA, rather than the support group of ESA, where they should be.
having to endure endless months and up to a year or moreof fighting to get their rightful benefits restored to them.

THIS point I partly agree with....too many fell through the incapacity gap. of course millions milked it before and wasted billions....but the tories need to get much better at managing this and weeding out the fakes from the genuine people....no one with the conditions you outline should ever lose this benefit imo...on the upside more money is going into the nhs under the conservatives than under labour and this will rise again with a growing economy and a less wasteful less burocratic nhs

People having to go to court who are sick and disabled,just to get their rightful entitlements, needing social workers and Doctors to provide endless evidence to support their claims. you make a valid point but exaggerate somewhat. - again this is a very sad downside to trying to weed out the cheats....in most cases the genuine claimants did get their benefits back. doctors can be hard to get to see too , their secretaries are like pitbulls, social workers need to fight for these people. weve seen how appalling social workers can be in the endless cover ups
That is what has happened to the sick, disabled and most vulnerable during this rotten heartless govt's; last 5 years in power.
maybe not where you are as you seem to live in a state of Utopia, in the rest of the real world however that is what is happening.
sarcasm is the lowest form of wit....in many topic areas ive outlined how things are way worse here in mid wales than other places...

Try to get yourself along to the ATOS style re-assessments of the sick and disabled,you may just get an eye opener.- you need the eye opener...try and look at the gurnos estate in Merthyr to find a sea of workless demotivated uneducated ambiton free people, often labour voters through fear of losing their benefits....through lifestyle choices imposed by the sick new labour doctrine... a doctrine that saw the workless young people multiplying to millions, breeding for benefits getting a much bigger disposable income than working people? all footed by the hard working tax payers....then needing millions of immigrants to work these menial jobs their own people could no longer feel motivated to do? Try look at the way labour left Iraq after their illegal war, try look at the debts they left, try look at the thousands dead in the Stafford cover up, the endless mrsa filthy bugs across british hospitals under labour helping to kill thousands, the massive growth in nhs middle management, the fall in welsh labour nhs investment the waste of the gold, the lies the spin the deceit of new labour....maybe you need the eye opener