[Kizzy]

Ah right, thanks for the comments then

[joeysteele]

Of course there are those in the NHS who have no time for Labour too, the minority I would say however.

However that is irrelevant as to what will happen to the NHS under this govt.
The last re-organisation is still causing chaos in the NHS.
The staff are still playing catch up to keep up with those changes.

A great chunk of the last re-organisation, that was promised to never be going to happen by David Cameron, was shelved because the Lib Dems would not support all of the changes.

He has a hidden agenda and is sneaking, in a far greater way in reality, more privatisation that initially will appear harmless but eventually probably move on to the point where, if he gets things through parliament that is,will likely eventually lead to people needing health insurance or have the ability to pay for the best and fastest treatments.

There is thankfully, no guarantee he will get all through he wants to and I really hope he fails to and is made to think again.

No less than 15 of my family work in the NHS,from Doctors to Nursing staff,just as others on here have said, as to their family and friends who work in the NHS too.
Few of them,if any,trust the Conservatives at all as to the NHS.

It proves nothing that a minority of people working in the NHS don't trust Labour either,Labour is not the govt of the UK,I would dare bet most of them that don't trust Labour,still have big concerns and reservations as to wholly trusting the Conservatives too.

Speaking for my family, some of them voted Conservative in 2010, believing David Cameron when he said he would not do any top down re-organisation of the NHS.
They didn't vote for him this time and they are really fearful for the future of the NHS as it should be,free at the point of need for all.

Some that have stuck with him again as to the NHS this time, I fear are going to have to fight more reforms tooth and nail again this time.

As to his mental health plans too,he is likely going to cause even far more problems than he solves with those, he should really start by ensuring that those with mental health problems, lose any stigma attached to same by the media and people who don't get what mental health illness is.
Stigma that got worse under his watch in the last 5 years too, and he allowed it to as well.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by StephenPullen

When will you be receiving your invitation to the Conservative party dinner - you must be a big contributor?

Ive never voted tory in my whole life, but I just see all sides of the argument and in this the tories are a lot more right than new labour...unlike the new labourites on here I actually care more about the fact camerons government are saving more lives scanning more people and aiming for a far better service. new labour just covered everything up....lives matter more than party politics

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Of course there are those in the NHS who have no time for Labour too, the minority I would say however.

However that is irrelevant as to what will happen to the NHS under this govt.
The last re-organisation is still causing chaos in the NHS.
The staff are still playing catch up to keep up with those changes.

A great chunk of the last re-organisation, that was promised to never be going to happen by David Cameron, was shelved because the Lib Dems would not support all of the changes.

He has a hidden agenda and is sneaking, in a far greater way in reality, more privatisation that initially will appear harmless but eventually probably move on to the point where, if he gets things through parliament that is,will likely eventually lead to people needing health insurance or have the ability to pay for the best and fastest treatments.

There is thankfully, no guarantee he will get all through he wants to and I really hope he fails to and is made to think again.

No less than 15 of my family work in the NHS,from Doctors to Nursing staff,just as others on here have said, as to their family and friends who work in the NHS too.
Few of them,if any,trust the Conservatives at all as to the NHS.

It proves nothing that a minority of people working in the NHS don't trust Labour either,Labour is not the govt of the UK,I would dare bet most of them that don't trust Labour,still have big concerns and reservations as to wholly trusting the Conservatives too.

Speaking for my family, some of them voted Conservative in 2010, believing David Cameron when he said he would not do any top down re-organisation of the NHS.
They didn't vote for him this time and they are really fearful for the future of the NHS as it should be,free at the point of need for all.

Some that have stuck with him again as to the NHS this time, I fear are going to have to fight more reforms tooth and nail again this time.

As to his mental health plans too,he is likely going to cause even far more problems than he solves with those, he should really start by ensuring that those with mental health problems, lose any stigma attached to same by the media and people who don't get what mental health illness is.
Stigma that got worse under his watch in the last 5 years too, and he allowed it to as well.

baseless evidence free scaremongering nonsense
Cameron has completely and utterly exposed the lies the cruel cover ups and widespread systematic abuse found in care homes, social services and hospitals under new labour.....just look at the way labour are messing up the welsh nhs and refusing to accept the evidence of their failings. carwyn jones pretty much mocked ann clwyds finding on the abuse and negligence
disgusting deluded dangerous party. id back anyone ahead of those crooks

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Of course there are those in the NHS who have no time for Labour too, the minority I would say however.

However that is irrelevant as to what will happen to the NHS under this govt.
The last re-organisation is still causing chaos in the NHS.
The staff are still playing catch up to keep up with those changes.

A great chunk of the last re-organisation, that was promised to never be going to happen by David Cameron, was shelved because the Lib Dems would not support all of the changes.

He has a hidden agenda and is sneaking, in a far greater way in reality, more privatisation that initially will appear harmless but eventually probably move on to the point where, if he gets things through parliament that is,will likely eventually lead to people needing health insurance or have the ability to pay for the best and fastest treatments.

There is thankfully, no guarantee he will get all through he wants to and I really hope he fails to and is made to think again.

No less than 15 of my family work in the NHS,from Doctors to Nursing staff,just as others on here have said, as to their family and friends who work in the NHS too.
Few of them,if any,trust the Conservatives at all as to the NHS.

It proves nothing that a minority of people working in the NHS don't trust Labour either,Labour is not the govt of the UK,I would dare bet most of them that don't trust Labour,still have big concerns and reservations as to wholly trusting the Conservatives too.

Speaking for my family, some of them voted Conservative in 2010, believing David Cameron when he said he would not do any top down re-organisation of the NHS.
They didn't vote for him this time and they are really fearful for the future of the NHS as it should be,free at the point of need for all.

Some that have stuck with him again as to the NHS this time, I fear are going to have to fight more reforms tooth and nail again this time.

As to his mental health plans too,he is likely going to cause even far more problems than he solves with those, he should really start by ensuring that those with mental health problems, lose any stigma attached to same by the media and people who don't get what mental health illness is.
Stigma that got worse under his watch in the last 5 years too, and he allowed it to as well.

Bingo... Exactly my fears too Joey that fewer and fewer services that are gifted to these everso helpful and grateful organisations are funded by the NHS leading to more and more deaths and more 'evidence' that it's failing.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by the truth

baseless evidence free scaremongering nonsense
Cameron has completely and utterly exposed the lies the cruel cover ups and widespread systematic abuse found in care homes, social services and hospitals under new labour.....just look at the way labour are messing up the welsh nhs and refusing to accept the evidence of their failings. carwyn jones pretty much mocked ann clwyds finding on the abuse and negligence
disgusting deluded dangerous party. id back anyone ahead of those crooks

I would use the bolded phrase to sum up what I think of this post on your perception of Labour, and in fact most of your posts about Labour. Honestly it's almost like you've been told an extremely distorted story on what they have done and you believe and recite every word of it. I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with some things that happened under New Labour (me included), but seriously the way you go on to describe them as crooks and dangerous is just extreme and quite worrying.

[Kizzy]

I don't want this thread closed, please could we discuss the current issue and not the irrelevant left/right silly and predictable nonsense.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I would use the bolded phrase to sum up what I think of this post on your perception of Labour, and in fact most of your posts about Labour. Honestly it's almost like you've been told an extremely distorted story on what they have done and you believe and recite every word of it. I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with some things that happened under New Labour (me included), but seriously the way you go on to describe them as crooks and dangerous is just extreme and quite worrying.

I agree.Very good post again JoshBB.
Have you considered a career in politics,you have the same interest and analysis I had when I was 13 onwards.

I make my points on what I have seen 'in practice' and from the great knowledge of my family who work in the NHS, I almost went into medicine myself as a lot of my family have.
I know what I am saying is right,it doesn't mean I cannot learn from others,if anyone puts a reasoned point,I will happily debate and respond but there are some vexations who are best avoided and I do so.

This is also a very important issue as Kizzy has said, anything that helps highlights the wrongs as to future NHS policies should be made known and debated.
Also too, fought against as well.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I agree.Very good post again JoshBB.
Have you considered a career in politics,you have the same interest and analysis I had when I was 13 onwards.

I make my points on what I have seen 'in practice' and from the great knowledge of my family who work in the NHS, I almost went into medicine myself as a lot of my family have.
I know what I am saying is right,it doesn't mean I cannot learn from others,if anyone puts a reasoned point,I will happily debate and respond but there are some vexations who are best avoided and I do so.

This is also a very important issue as Kizzy has said, anything that helps highlights the wrongs as to future NHS policies should be made known and debated.
Also too, fought against as well.

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

Josh you would be so beneficial in your community, contact your local councillor I bet you would be a real asset for them as a supporter for local issues as a jumping off point

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

Never let that hold you back please.
You have great knowledge and in depth analysis as to what you say over a wide range of issues relating to politics.
I would say politics could do with more of your standing.

I agree too with your point as whichever party is proposing bad changes as to the NHS.
I certainly would be as hard on Labour if I felt they were doing bad things as to the NHS,just as I am for this present govt.

I accept any organisation the size of the NHS needs constant scrutiny and updating, things will always go wrong at times which are no govts. fault really.
However,unnecessary changes such as was done in the last 5 years and now the new plans that are unfolding slowly,in my view, justifiably need criticising and stopped if at all possible.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Josh you would be so beneficial in your community, contact your local councillor I bet you would be a real asset for them as a supporter for local issues as a jumping off point

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me.

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me.

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

Ah, then how about just the organisations that you personally are passionate about, fund raise for your chosen charity or a local cause?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I would use the bolded phrase to sum up what I think of this post on your perception of Labour, and in fact most of your posts about Labour. Honestly it's almost like you've been told an extremely distorted story on what they have done and you believe and recite every word of it. I think a lot of people are dissatisfied with some things that happened under New Labour (me included), but seriously the way you go on to describe them as crooks and dangerous is just extreme and quite worrying.

My post is based on FACTS. Yours is NOT.
My post is based on what DID happen, yours is based on a biased negative perception what MAY happen in the with the party you dislike running the country and the NHS
economy - tories miles ahead of new labour
nhs - tories spending more money than new labour, exposing more of the waste over burocracy, neglect and cover ups.
scandal-far far less scandal under the tories than new labour. you choose to believe this is all because of the right wing media, its not its FACTS.
Not even the right wing media can rewrite the unemployment rates halving, the jobs rising by over 2 million, the total lack of another mrsa outbreak...not even the right wing media can be blamed for the horrors of Stafford hospital, the 20 years of covered up child abuse at Rotherham council or the endless lies over the Iraq war
I have witnessed the enormity of lies and cover ups first hand in my own dealings with new labour and the nhs. These are FACTS I can back up EVERY WORD I WRITE. YOU CANT. You don't even acknowledge the specific abuses under new labour and demand an apology? why are you and the other new labourites screaming mad about the endless lies and abuses that lead to the deaths of thousands , in fact over a million?
yet youre more worried about me pointing it out than the actual war crimes and endless cover ups leading to all these deaths. I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself and your priorities.

NEW LABOUR ARE EVIL!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me.

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

racist? Let me tell you the worst act of discrimination in this countries history is not using the wrong adjective as new labour would have you believe, but blowing up and illegally killing over a million innocent people, now that is the ultimate discrimination...I suggest you feel more offended about that than your ukip neighbour .......deary me, priorities up the spout
(youll now proceed to be more offended by me and ignore the Iraqi debacle

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurrock_Council

The political make-up is not exactly representative of my views and so they may not like me.

It's super right-wing. The tories are all backwards-looking and socially conservative, one of the UKIP guys who lives a street away from me is all-but openly racist, and the majority of the Labour councillors are blairites. It's such a shame tbf lol.

You have plenty time Josh, think about it.
All my best to you and I really do think you are reasoned and very detailed in a non insulting or aggressive way as to making your valid points and when challenging others as to their points.
All things which would all serve you well in politics.

That will take you a long way and earn you lots of respect too.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

racist? Let me tell you the worst act of discrimination in this countries history is not using the wrong adjective as new labour would have you believe, but blowing up and illegally killing over a million innocent people, now that is the ultimate discrimination...I suggest you feel more offended about that than your ukip neighbour .......deary me, priorities up the spout
(youll now proceed to be more offended by me and ignore the Iraqi debacle

This is a thread about the NHS not the Iraq war, you are the one taking things off topic just as you always do as to your baiting of members just to cause trouble on threads.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You have plenty time Josh, think about it.
All my best to you and I really do think you are reasoned and very detailed in a non insulting or aggressive way as to making your valid points and when challenging others as to their points.
All things which would all serve you well in politics.

That will take you a long way and earn you lots of respect too.

HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. sadly honesty is banned in new labour

[empire]

labour are no different from the tory's, when they got back into power in 97, they followed the tory, plan in privatisaiton, both labour and the tory's are to blame for how bad the nhs was run,

[Kizzy]

That was almost 20yrs ago now, and this govt have been in for the last 5 setting wheels in motion for huge changes, bigger by the looks of it than anything ever proposed before.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That was almost 20yrs ago now, and this govt have been in for the last 5 setting wheels in motion for huge changes, bigger by the looks of it than anything ever proposed before.

selective memory as always....you talk about the past when it suits you and ignore it when it suits you, total hypocrisy

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yes, that is very true and that principle should be maintained regardless of whichever party these changes are proponed by.

And also I have considered a career in politics as it is something that interests me quite a lot, although the only thing is I believe my working-class background and area would likely hold me back.

Of course it wouldn't hold you back. Decide which party you're going to support and join their 'young' section it'll probably only cost you a fiver or so. You'll get to meet up with lots of like-minded young people. If there's one thing this country needs it's young, dedicated, intelligent, politically minded people - whichever party you support. You can stand as a council candidate once you're eighteen, even if you stand as a paper candidate it'll give you lots of experience to take forward. If you go on to uni there's bound to be a youth branch (don't know what to call it, every party calls their secton for young people something different) of your party there too.

Don't let anything hold you back.

[the truth]

good advice for you there josh