[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again.



An entire ethnicity are pests based on the crimes that only some of that group commits?

FFS These types of incidents are widespread and increasing.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again.



An entire ethnicity are pests based on the crimes that only some of that group commits?

I believe - like me - Jenny was referring SPECIFICALLY to the ROMA TURDS in the OP.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

This is a one-off incidence which the Daily Mail has used on purpose to demonise migrants and big-up the army once again

This was NOT a one-off incident. There are no military hospitals any more and our troops have to be treated in civilian hospitals. There have been numerous documented verbal and physical attacks on soldier in hospital, by Muslims, livid that the soldiers were being treated on the same ward as their family. My husband wasn't allowed to wear his uniform in public despite the fact he was serving his country and was fiercely proud of that. Compare that to the USA where military service is respected and military personnel in uniform are treated with respect.

The story Annie posted was disgusting, and all you can say is that it was a one-off to "demonise migrants and big-up the army"? It seems you only believe the stories that suit your agenda Josh. Everything else is a right-wing plot.

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Iceman]

Stereotyping at its best.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Eoin

Stereotyping at its best.

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

I know. It's really quite appaling how grown men and women actually do this. I pity them.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

Oh - unless - as I said earlier - the one's boasting and the others are actors being paid by some sinister Right Wing faction to portray Roma's in a bad light

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

But they aren't, and you're not sorry.

By your logic, because of hitler, stalin, and moussolini (and the white people that put them into power).. people could say that "white people are stereotyping themselves" and accuse white people of being criminals and fascists.

Do you not see the danger and racist undertone in your argument?

[kirklancaster]

Do you know Josh - you're naivety is so collossal, your perception of reality so skewed, and your logic so flawed that I really cannot be bothered answering.

[Dollface]

.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

This worries me. Livia do you actually believe this??


Are we seriously comparing the roma people to murderous dictators?

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I'm really surprised how people on this thread are openly stereotyping roma people as well.. and I refer to them as that, as gypsy is widely used as a racial slur and I will not partake in that.

Yes, Josh. I do believe it. And what's more my beliefs are based on something. I've experienced the little gangs of pickpockets on the Tube, I've seen them begging and setting up camp in London. They are mostly criminals. Now, please don't get these people mixed up with Romany gipsies. I have a Romany camp not too far from where I live. There was a big fight against their planning permission around here I will admit, although I wasn't involved, but they are the nicest people, have the neatest grounds and restore the old horse-drawn caravans. They are interesting the friendly. Sadly they get tarred with the same brush as the Romanian gypsies who have really shown the Transport Police and the Met what a bloody nuisance they are. And more sadly, if anyone mentions what a nightmare they are they're branded racist. If there's stereotyping going on it's because they are stereotypical.

[DemolitionRed]

Roma originated in Northern India, something like a thousand years ago. The language they speak is Romani/y which is basically a dialect of the Hindu language. When a gypsy talks about himself he will call himself 'Roma' but when he talks about a group of gypsies he will call them 'Romani/y'.

My thoughts are...gypsies, whether they be Irish Tinkers or Romani's can be problematic here in the UK. Most of them were born here, though we do have Romani's coming in from other parts of Europe and Tinkers coming over from Ireland.

Many Romani's are hard working, honest and law abiding citizens but we never hear about the proud Romani's, just the trouble makers. In the UK it feels as though the Romani trouble makers are a law unto themselves. Police often refuse to venture into camps or even get involved when they hear the word 'gypsy'.

In France, (not so much the big cities) the Romani's are better tolerated by the general population as a travelling work force. People don't fear them, in fact they are a well respected people. They are encouraged to work, even those in the camps give basket weaving lessons and teach the public about traditional gypsy ways. If they cause any problem the gendarme come down on them like a ton of bricks.

[BB4fan]

People are forgetting the costs to send them home only for it to happen all over again.

I don't believe it's racist to bring this subject up, but I do believe that taxpayers' money is being spent here on the flight back home.

Why would they even come here just to live on the streets anyway...???

[Dollface]

oh wait wait this is SD&N

bye not getting involved

[Kyle]

There has been a sizeable community in flux around Doncaster and Sheffield for a while now though fortunately we don't deal with them so much in my Town.

Sorry Josh, I know anecdotal evidence is relatively weak but I'm afraid I'm going to have to go along with the sentiments of others in this thread.

[BB4fan]

If we can't talk about the problem, then we can't solve it. There is no harm in talking about the issue here and in no way racist.

[Crimson Dynamo]

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old )

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old )

Thank you for not getting involved with the personal attacks here LT, I respect you for that

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old )

I respect Josh for having an opinion and sharing it even when many others don't agree with him. I also respect his passion for multiculturalism. He is fighting the good fight, I just don't agree with the ways in which he does it, he acts as if every little thing is racist and that is not good for anyone.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

This is exactly what is happening in the UK Dollface - the silent majority KNOW the truth but dare not speak it because of exactly the reasons which you have given as why you (and a lot of other members) do not come onto Serious Debates -- Being falsely accused of Racism, Xenophobia or some other 'ism' or 'phobia.

And it is a great shame.

I may only be 15.. but if I've learned anything it's that the only way hatred is accepted and spread is when it's referred to as 'truth'. Not to breach Godwin's Law or anything.. but it's exactly how Hitler did it. (of course the racism is nowhere near as extreme as his, but still)

Originally Posted by Dollface

I respect Josh for having an opinion and sharing it even when many others don't agree with him. I also respect his passion for multiculturalism. He is fighting the good fight, I just don't agree with the ways in which he does it, he acts as if every little thing is racist and that is not good for anyone.

I honestly fail to see how prejudice and stereotyping of an ethnic group isn't racist, and my intention is not to label people and shame them but to hopefully change attitudes. I hate racism and have seen friends face it, with one of my closest friends having to move from his street and consequently school because his neighbours were constantly racist to his parents (they're asian). I've also seen teachers visibly upset because they've been called a terrorist literally only for wearing a hijab when they're literally the happiest and one of the most kind and caring teachers in my whole school.

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I honestly fail to see how prejudice and stereotyping of an ethnic group isn't racist, and my intention is not to label people and shame them but to hopefully change attitudes. I hate racism and have seen friends face it, with one of my closest friends having to move from his street and consequently school because his neighbours were constantly racist to his parents (they're asian). I've also seen teachers visibly upset because they've been called a terrorist literally only for wearing a hijab when they're literally the happiest and one of the most kind and caring teachers in my whole school.

All I ever see from you is labeling and attempting to shame people. Being labelled a racist is incredibly insulting and insinuating someone is a racist is quite serious. If you did this sort of thing in the real world you could end up getting yourself in trouble (for example, if you labelled someone a racist at work, he/she could take you to court for it)

The way your friend and teachers were treated is disgusting, but those people (the ones who verbally abused them) are the type of people you should be saying this sort of stuff to. My year at school only had 1 Indian girl, 1 Muslim girl and 1 Black girl and I was friends with and loved them all (especially the indian girl, she was hilarious) and if anyone treated them the way your friend was treated I would have been so angry so I can get where your anger comes from, but it seems misplaced.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Dollface

All I ever see from you is labeling and attempting to shame people. Being labelled a racist is incredibly insulting and insinuating someone is a racist is quite serious. If you did this sort of thing in the real world you could end up getting yourself in trouble (for example, if you labelled someone a racist at work, he/she could take you to court for it)

The way your friend and teachers were treated is disgusting, but those people (the ones who verbally abused them) are the type of people you should be saying this sort of stuff to. My year at school only had 1 Indian girl, 1 Muslim girl and 1 Black girl and I was friends with and loved them all (especially the indian girl, she was hilarious) and if anyone treated them the way your friend was treated I would have been so angry so I can get where your anger comes from, but it seems misplaced.

Last thing I would want is for people to feel ashamed of themselves, that's everything I stand against and is the basis for which I usually label racist comments as prejudiced. Anything I've said was because the posts on here striked me as particularly racist against the Romani ethnic group and I was actually quite upset reading some of the things on here. I don't know any romani people personally but they are human beings just like me and you, and nobody deserves to be labelled and shamed as a criminal just because of their ethnicity.

I can relate to your story by the way. Seems that most of my friends are minorities too and they're all lovely people

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Thank you, I appreciate your respect. It's mutual.

But in regards to your xism comment, honestly I call em like I see em. I usually much prefer to regard peoples' comments as racist (for example) rather than the person themselves, because right now I think there's a really unfortunate trend of nice people being turned nasty almost because of xenophobic narrative. It's very rare that I do label people racist unless they show little sign of attempting to eradicate the hatred from within (that sounded really hippy-like, wow).

The Azealia Banks thread thing.. I mean, she really does appear to me like an awful homophobic person and I believe I have posted that somewhere else now you mention it. But I think that every person with prejudice that actively discriminates needs help.. for the sake of the people they are oppressing mostly.

I just genuinely think that 99% of the people on here arent racist and that it's silly to assume that someone is. I appreciate that you stick up for 'minorities' and what have you, but I think that there's times where you stick up for people, with a biased opinion and don't see the bad in them. Which I suppose isn't a bad thing. I just think that (in as nice a way as possible) the world is a lot different to how you see it. Schools are incredibly biased these days in the way that they teach. Once you start getting more freedom from school, once you go out and meet new people in ways other than school, you'll start to see the world differently. I'm sure you'll always be passionate about sticking up for minorities, and I will too. But I don't defend them when they are in the wrong, just because they have had a tough life.

I think that you've got a bright future ahead of you. And I totally respect you for that. But I think that you also have a lot to learn. The world isn't just black and white and minorities aren't always just poor little victims. I just think that words like 'racist' and 'sexist' and 'xenophobic' are thrown around waaaay waaay too much these days.

[empire]

people from other countries in europe will tell you the truth in what roma gypsies, are really like, the left wing are giving these people the right to steal, beat people, and harass old people on the street, my dad and brother chased a few of them for trying to get money out an old lady's bag, and the police do nothing, some of the sex trafficking is caused by roma gangs, the greeks and italians call them rats, they dress rough because thats how they get there money when fake begging on the streets,