[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Not everyone believes it's lies,I take it you don't do Christmas at yours then LT ?

christmas is nothing to do with religion it is an amalgam of historic and pagan tradition and with 95% of the population religion will play no part

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

christmas is nothing to do with religion it is an amalgam of historic and pagan tradition and with 95% of the population religion will play no part

To a lot of people it is everything to do with religion ,and of course you will believe that description of it being pagan etc,as it makes you feel better,it's just greed at the end of the day,you just cant let the people who believe in it and celebrate it as such,have their big day without wanting a slice and joining in.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

christmas is nothing to do with religion it is an amalgam of historic and pagan tradition and with 95% of the population religion will play no part

Every year as Christmas approches we share the same old 'chestnut' - no matter how many times we discuss, debate, or argue.

Online Dictionary:

Christməs/
noun
1.
the annual Christian festival celebrating Christ's birth, held on 25 December in the Western Church.

Mirriam Webster Dictionary:
Christmas
noun, Christ·mas often attributive \ˈkris-məs\
: a Christian holiday that is celebrated on December 25 in honor of the birth of Jesus Christ or the period of time that comes before and after this holiday

The Free Dictionary:

Christ·mas (krĭs′məs)
n.
1. A Christian feast commemorating the birth of Jesus.
2. December 25, the day on which this feast is observed as a public holiday in many countries.
3. Christmastide.

Oxford Dictionary
Christ|mas
Pronunciation: /ˈkrɪsməs/
Definition of Christmas in English:
noun (plural Christmases)

1The annual Christian festival celebrating Christ’s birth, held on 25 December in the Westerna celebrati bybthe WESTERN Churcjh Church:

Search EVERY dictionary, reerence ANY academic work, and you will see that CHRISTMAS is a celebratation of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Irrespective of December the 25th ONCE being of pagan origins, or Rudolph, or Santa Claus, or decorated trees.

Christ Mas means Christ's Birthday.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

christmas is nothing to do with religion it is an amalgam of historic and pagan tradition and with 95% of the population religion will play no part

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Bang goes our freedom of speech again!

It's literally got nothing to do with Freedom of Speech but okay. The advert hasn't been banned, it just won't be shown in cinemas. Good thing too, religion based advertising shouldn't be a thing.

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Not everyone believes it's lies,I take it you don't do Christmas at yours then LT ?

Only a small percentage of people in the UK actually celebrate the holiday for religious reasons and most of them lie about it for a chance to be self righteous and to look down on others.

Christmas day is an excuse from presents, overeating, getting pissed and ruining relationships.

Jesus Christ has nothing to do with it anymore.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's literally got nothing to do with Freedom of Speech but okay. The advert hasn't been banned, it just won't be shown in cinemas. Good thing too, religion based advertising shouldn't be a thing.



Only a small percentage of people in the UK actually celebrate the holiday for religious reasons and most of them lie about it for a chance to be self righteous and to look down on others.

Christmas day is an excuse from presents, overeating, getting pissed and ruining relationships.

Jesus Christ has nothing to do with it anymore.

Yes he does to a vast amount of people,and to call some of them liars is low,but no need for people to feel inferior,we are all entitalled to our beliefs without malice !!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

telling lies to children is not freedom of speech

it is telling lies to children

So I take it you never told your kids Santa crept into their house on Christmas Eve and left them presents? LIAR!

[arista]

A Great Book

[Crimson Dynamo]

If the advert finished like this

Now there is no evidence whatsoever that praying does anygood nor is their any evidence that gods exist, on the contrary the evidence clearly says they do not

but some people like to do it as it makes them feel like their lives have meaning and that someone is looking out for them - sadly this in not applicable to the 20,000 children who died today of hunger and disease


enjoy the film



then we have an advert suitable for all

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If the advert finished like this

Now there is no evidence whatsoever that praying does anygood nor is their any evidence that gods exist, on the contrary the evidence clearly says they do not

but some people like to do it as it makes them feel like their lives have meaning and that someone is looking out for them - sadly this in not applicable to the 20,000 children who died today of hunger and disease


enjoy the film



then we have an advert suitable for all

Maybe those children died due to lack of humanity and greed.

[Suze]

I don't mind the ad, there are worse trying to shove things down your throat and play on heart strings.

[Northern Monkey]

So now you can't have a Christian advert at Christmas in a Christian country.Seems legit.I wonder if all mention of Islam is banned in Pakistan for fear of upsetting other faiths or people of no faith....

[smudgie]

It wouldn't bother me on a personal level, however, all religion and politics should be kept away from cinema adverts, seems a good policy to me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

It wouldn't bother me on a personal level, however, all religion and politics should be kept away from cinema adverts, seems a good policy to me.

Maybe that's a good point, if this is allowed then we could see an avalanche of religious and political messages shoehorned into advertising space.
I wonder how much the production and ad time that message cost...
It begs the question with all the social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide how is this spend justified?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Maybe that's a good point, if this is allowed then we could see an avalanche of religious and political messages shoehorned into advertising space.
I wonder how much the production and ad time that message cost...
It begs the question with all the social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide how is this spend justified?

The same way the Labour Party justifies spending tens of millions on advertising, which COULD be spent on alleviating the hardship and suffering of all those it purports to represent, but the question is frankly ridiculous.

The Christian church DOES carry out numerous and diverse good works of direct charity - from 'soup' kitchens in every town and city to various home and foreign charity projects.

I don't think I've ever seen a Labour Party 'soup' kitchen or any other specific charity projects paid for out of party funds -- which are collected from donations in the same exact manner which church funds are.

Apart from this, what is the difference?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

[/B]

The same way the Labour Party justifies spending tens of millions on advertising, which COULD be spent on alleviating the hardship and suffering of all those it purports to represent, but the question is frankly ridiculous.

The Christian church DOES carry out numerous and diverse good works of direct charity - from 'soup' kitchens in every town and city to various home and foreign charity projects.

I don't think I've ever seen a Labour Party 'soup' kitchen or any other specific charity projects paid for out of party funds -- which are collected from donations in the same exact manner which church funds are.

Apart from this, what is the difference?

So are you suggesting that as the Labour party spends money on campaigning then they shouldn't advocate aiding those in poverty?
By not mentioning the money spent by the conservatives are you admitting they couldn't care less about anyone in need?...
Not sure why you have chosen to take this topic and apply it to labour in response to my query, this is an ecumenical matter ( I've always wanted to say that)

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So are you suggesting that as the Labour party spends money on campaigning then they shouldn't advocate aiding those in poverty?
By not mentioning the money spent by the conservatives are you admitting they couldn't care less about anyone in need?...
Not sure why you have chosen to take this topic and apply it to labour in response to my query, this is an ecumenical matter ( I've always wanted to say that)

Look, I really do not want to be dragged into futile argument with you again, or suffer further warnings and infractions as a result, but you are 'moving the goalposts' again, and I surely have a right to answer you.

No I am NOT suggesting that; "as the Labour party spends money on campaigning then they shouldn't advocate aiding those in poverty" and NOWHERE in my response to your post do I state ANYTHING which could cause any reasonable person to educe that.

I NEVER mentioned anything about 'the Labour Party advocating aiding those in poverty' or otherwise. SHOW ME WHERE I used any of those words or anything REMOTELY like them.

I DID NOT.

I was specifically responding to the question you posed in your post which I reproduce here:

"I wonder how much the production and ad time that message cost...
It begs the question with all the social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide how is this spend justified?"


Which means to me, that you were criticising the Christian Church and saying they could not justify spending that money on advertising when there was "so much social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide".

Now, I am a well advertised Christian, and you are a well advertised Labour supporter, so I simply answered your - pretty obviously rhetorical - question based on these two facts - which is why I confined my remarks to the Labour Party and no other parties. Here is my post in its entirety:

"The same way the Labour Party justifies spending tens of millions on advertising, which COULD be spent on alleviating the hardship and suffering of all those it purports to represent, but the question is frankly ridiculous.

The Christian church DOES carry out numerous and diverse good works of direct charity - from 'soup' kitchens in every town and city to various home and foreign charity projects.

I don't think I've ever seen a Labour Party 'soup' kitchen or any other specific charity projects paid for out of party funds -- which are collected from donations in the same exact manner which church funds are.

Apart from this, what is the difference?"

Now if you re-read my post you will see it is quite lucidly written and nowhere does it justify ANY of your summisations above. NOWHERE.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Maybe that's a good point, if this is allowed then we could see an avalanche of religious and political messages shoehorned into advertising space.
I wonder how much the production and ad time that message cost...
It begs the question with all the social inequality,suffering and need both in the UK and worldwide how is this spend justified?

Yeah I am disgusted by the Hollywood movie budget used in this one advert.

And the nice clean clothes the priest is wearing. He could've cured world hunger with those, damn it.

[JoshBB]

The advert should be allowed imo, along with any other religion that wishes to make an advert - so long as there is nothing political or hateful in it.

It may be worth reminding that we are 'officially' a christian country, although since striving towards being more secular seems to be more popular nowadays.. and that means having all religions (and non-religions) on an equal status, not banning religion from display like france has. That would be state-atheism.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The advert should be allowed imo, along with any other religion that wishes to make an advert - so long as there is nothing political or hateful in it.

It may be worth reminding that we are 'officially' a christian country, although since striving towards being more secular seems to be more popular nowadays.. and that means having all religions (and non-religions) on an equal status, not banning religion from display like france has. That would be state-atheism.

Superb post.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The advert should be allowed imo, along with any other religion that wishes to make an advert - so long as there is nothing political or hateful in it.

It may be worth reminding that we are 'officially' a christian country, although since striving towards being more secular seems to be more popular nowadays.. and that means having all religions (and non-religions) on an equal status, not banning religion from display like france has. That would be state-atheism.

France banned the burka (facial veil) for security reasons. The burka isn't part of the Islamic religion, just something that was added later.

Such an add wouldn't bother me. It would certainly surprise me but that's about it.

I'm not at all religious but enjoy the Christian/Pagan element of Christmas. I also enjoy being amongst the French who tend to be a lot more religious than we are; perhaps it has something to do with a close community spirit that we seem to lack here. I also love the sound of church bells ringing or going to a Christian wedding or christening. Sometimes I even wish I was part of that religion.

Perhaps I'm just a hypocrite

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

France hasn't banned any religion, it banned the burka (facial veil) for security reasons. The burka isn't part of the Islamic religion, just something that was added later.

Such an add wouldn't bother me. It would certainly surprise me but that's about it.

I'm not at all religious but enjoy the Christian/Pagan element of Christmas. I also enjoy being amongst the French who tend to be a lot more religious than we are; perhaps it has something to do with a close community spirit that we seem to lack here. I also love the sound of church bells ringing or going to a Christian wedding or christening. Sometimes I even wish I was part of that religion.

Perhaps I'm just a hypocrite

Not at all - you are just being human and normal. And I agree with what you write about enjoying the Christian/Pagan element and about the French.

[JoshBB]

The way some of you are treating your own atheism is the same way countries like Saudi Arabia treat Islam - forcing it upon everyone, and denying others the opportunity to display their own religion in a way that they feel comfortable, which should be allowed and encouraged in a modern democracy such as our own. It's the same people who criticise religious oppression in these countries who seem to have no problem doing it here so long as it's supportive of atheism, is that not hugely hypocritical?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The way some of you are treating your own atheism is the same way countries like Saudi Arabia treat Islam - forcing it upon everyone, and denying others the opportunity to display their own religion in a way that they feel comfortable, which should be allowed and encouraged in a modern democracy such as our own. It's the same people who criticise religious oppression in these countries who seem to have no problem doing it here so long as it's supportive of atheism, is that not hugely hypocritical?

I wish I'd said this.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I wish I'd said this.