[Ammi]

..it's human nature I think, that when there is a problem that doesn't seem solvabable or seems very difficult to solve, that it would be preferable for it to just go away and not be there...of course that doesn't actually achieve anything though does it, it just 'hide it from plain site' so we don't have to address it...homeless people are less a problem themselves and more people who have problems that have caused them to be in that situation in the first place..we can ship them away and hide them and the next day, there will be more because there will always be people with problems and some who feel that homelessness is their only choice in life...maybe they have left a home where they have been abused..?..maybe they've been failed dreadfully by a system that just doesn't work for everyone, those with mental illnesses etc...so ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more..island upon island upon island of the abandoned and failed, those difficult and inconvenient problems in life...or focus at looking at their problems and the reasons why they are homeless and some possible solutions for those and maybe, they would start to become less and not more and more...that would be a positive, abandoning them to an island where we don't have to think about them, where they 'don't become our problem anymore', would not...societies need to help people with problems, not send them away ...any one of our families/friends could become homeless at any point in time in their lives...

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's human nature I think, that when there is a problem that doesn't seem solvabable or seems very difficult to solve, that it would be preferable for it to just go away and not be there...of course that doesn't actually achieve anything though does it, it just 'hide it from plain site' so we don't have to address it...homeless people are less a problem themselves and more people who have problems that have caused them to be in that situation in the first place..we can ship them away and hide them and the next day, there will be more because there will always be people with problems and some who feel that homelessness is their only choice in life...maybe they have left a home where they have been abused..?..maybe they've been failed dreadfully by a system that just doesn't work for everyone, those with mental illnesses etc...so ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more..island upon island upon island of the abandoned and failed, those difficult and inconvenient problems in life...or focus at looking at their problems and the reasons why they are homeless and some possible solutions for those and maybe, they would start to become less and not more and more...that would be a positive, abandoning them to an island where we don't have to think about them, where they 'don't become our problem anymore', would not...societies need to help people with problems, not send them away ...any one of our families/friends could become homeless at any point in time in their lives...

Originally Posted by Joseph the Carpenter

sound common sense

(Just reminding you what common sense is LT)

Well put Ammi

[arista]

".maybe they've been failed dreadfully by a system that just doesn't work for everyone, "


Bang on Right Ammi
thats why if you read my Full post
its all covered.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's human nature I think, that when there is a problem that doesn't seem solvabable or seems very difficult to solve, that it would be preferable for it to just go away and not be there...of course that doesn't actually achieve anything though does it, it just 'hide it from plain site' so we don't have to address it...homeless people are less a problem themselves and more people who have problems that have caused them to be in that situation in the first place..we can ship them away and hide them and the next day, there will be more because there will always be people with problems and some who feel that homelessness is their only choice in life...maybe they have left a home where they have been abused..?..maybe they've been failed dreadfully by a system that just doesn't work for everyone, those with mental illnesses etc...so ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more..island upon island upon island of the abandoned and failed, those difficult and inconvenient problems in life...or focus at looking at their problems and the reasons why they are homeless and some possible solutions for those and maybe, they would start to become less and not more and more...that would be a positive, abandoning them to an island where we don't have to think about them, where they 'don't become our problem anymore', would not...societies need to help people with problems, not send them away ...any one of our families/friends could become homeless at any point in time in their lives...

Arista is offering a solution

we know the problem already


This is a solution - too many times we hold out hands up and say "this is the problem"

great

but identifying problems is easy

solutions are not that is why they are hard

[arista]

Originally Posted by Joseph the Carpenter

Arista is offering a solution

we know the problem already


This is a solution - too many times we hold out hands up and say "this is the problem"

great

but identifying problems is easy

solutions are not that is why they are hard

Females may view Radical New Laws
in another way LT.


I Respect Ammi.

But she needs to read the thread in full.
thats all I ask.

[JoshBB]

Yeah I want to remove all homeless people from the streets too,

by housing them. by giving them what they need. Nobody chooses to be homeless.

[Vicky.]

If I ever found myself homeless I think I would like a law that makes it illegal tbh. Then I would be housed up in prison with my 3 meals a day and stuff rather than sleeping rough.

How the tax payer would fund all of these extra prisoners though, I don't know

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

If I ever found myself homeless I think I would like a law that makes it illegal tbh. Then I would be housed up in prison with my 3 meals a day and stuff rather than sleeping rough.

How the tax payer would fund all of these extra prisoners though, I don't know

No Vicky you would be on the staff canteen at the old army base sheds

We may let you sing for them
with a Worldwide Live Band
Arista Stream


Vicky Is Strong
Watch yourself Punks

[arista]

New Prisons will
be Made
but not based in the UK.


So Vickys Sly Option is more hard


It will also be 2 and a half meals a day

[arista]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Yeah I want to remove all homeless people from the streets too,

by housing them. by giving them what they need. Nobody chooses to be homeless.

Josh
we will be housing them
at our old army base sheds.

Life Is Tough

[Mitchell]

I keep seeing beggars on the train putting a packet of tissues on the seat next to me

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it's human nature I think, that when there is a problem that doesn't seem solvabable or seems very difficult to solve, that it would be preferable for it to just go away and not be there...of course that doesn't actually achieve anything though does it, it just 'hide it from plain site' so we don't have to address it...homeless people are less a problem themselves and more people who have problems that have caused them to be in that situation in the first place..we can ship them away and hide them and the next day, there will be more because there will always be people with problems and some who feel that homelessness is their only choice in life...maybe they have left a home where they have been abused..?..maybe they've been failed dreadfully by a system that just doesn't work for everyone, those with mental illnesses etc...so ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more and ship them away and there will be more..island upon island upon island of the abandoned and failed, those difficult and inconvenient problems in life...or focus at looking at their problems and the reasons why they are homeless and some possible solutions for those and maybe, they would start to become less and not more and more...that would be a positive, abandoning them to an island where we don't have to think about them, where they 'don't become our problem anymore', would not...societies need to help people with problems, not send them away ...any one of our families/friends could become homeless at any point in time in their lives...

Absolutely right, a perfect and compassionately balanced post as to the issue thank goodness.

The only things I would want to push for is for Church leaders to stop preaching about the obscenity of homelessness while locking their doors day after day,wherein parts of the Church could help shelter some genuinely homeless individuals.
Also, the obscene empty buildings of former businesses lying left empty for months and years and even decades, that could be put to some use as to helping as halfway houses for the homeless too.

The main atrocious fact of all is that in 21st century Britain that there are any homeless and people with deep rooted problems as to being homeless too, at all across the UK.

[arista]

{Also, the obscene empty buildings of former businesses lying left empty for months and years and even decades}

Yes thats the way its been.
no Leader has Ever changed that.

Homeless need help
Our Old Army Sheds
have staff and medical staff
which is better than "your" entering a unsafe building.


Ammi talks sense in "yesterdays" Life
But Everything is Changing
Evolution will not be stopped Joey.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

{Also, the obscene empty buildings of former businesses lying left empty for months and years and even decades}

Yes thats the way its been.
no Leader has Ever changed that.

Homeless need help
Our Old Army Sheds
have staff and medical staff
which is better than "your" entering a unsafe building.


[B]Ammi talks sense in "yesterdays" Life
But Everything is Changing
Evolution will not be stopped Joey.

[/B]

I am aware as much, if not more as anyone that Ammi talks sense.

No one said and I certainly did not that the homeless should just be rammed into an empty building with no support.

As to evolution things evolving I have found are usually a means to do things for less and less well, a lot of the time.

Buildings for instance where a business has just folded is far from being unsafe since only a matter of weeks before it would have had staff in it.
There are good numbers of people, volunteers and others who get heavily involved in the plight of the homeless, who understand their needs far more than some 'evolved' plan.
They would assist in the running and seeing to the needs of the homeless in such places.

It can take ages to build up trust between a supporter/helper of the homeless and the homeless individual.
Care, compassion and understanding is what is needed and yes shelter too, shelter that can hopefully be used to be a stepping stone between the streets and a permanent home for anyone found to be genuinely homeless.

Evolution doesn't need to be any part of the process,that is just a word that has negative as well as positive possibilities depending on who instigates the evolution of ideas.
What is really needed is not badly planned schemes but just basic humanistic understanding and compassion and genuine support for people who are homeless by those who,more to the point, 'really' want to help and support them too.

[arista]

Yes Joey
all very Good.

But empty Propertys Belong to people
No PM has changed a thing.

Yes it can take ages
thats why our old army sheds
are better as we can fund
better sensible , direction.
may not work with all of them
but we have a back plan for that.


you talk of dreams
R. Brand style dreams

We talk of Action.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Joey
all very Good.

But empty Propertys Belong to people
No PM has changed a thing.

Yes it can take ages
thats why our old army sheds
are better as we can fund
better sensible , direction.
may not work with all of them
but we have a back plan for that.


you talk of dreams
R. Brand style dreams

We talk of Action.

As you say no govt has done much as to action as to the homeless other than demonise them and see homelessness.

There are many forms of action that can be taken, not just yours,firstly it is all very well to say use old army sheds but where are they and who will be there to support and see to the needs to the homeless occupants.

Where are these sheds, well away from towns, some of them for sure will be,so is this just action to clear the homeless away from streets and city centres and maybe less to do with caring for them and seeing to their needs.

Any action that will genuinely be meant to help, support and build up the homeless rather than bring them down is welcome,however just shifting the problem out of Cities,as this appears to be, and as far out of sight as possible, may not be in any way the right answer.

Smells more to me of, 'get them out of sight, then they will be out of others minds', to me.

[BlankSpace]

If you come here to Cardiff (like many other parts of the country) there are so many homeless people occupying doorways, and most of them have dogs with sweaters and usually have sleeping bags and blankets. I'm tempted sometimes to give them some money, but what if it's a scammer, somebody who tries to act homeless just to squeeze a bit more money out? That's my honest opinion on it all

[arista]

[`Smells more to me of, 'get them out of sight, then they will be out of others minds', to me. ]

Yes Joey it looks that way.

But under our new plans

Day 1 : Army Sheds
Ch4HD news, Radio4 , SkyNewsHD invited in .

Day 2: Army Sheds
BBC1 Breakfast, LBC radio, Manchester News invited in.

Day 3 : Army Sheds
GMBHD , ITN, Radio 5, Glasgow News invited in.

Day 4 : Army Sheds
BBC2HD Newsnight , ITVHD Tonight, France 24 invited in

Day 5 :
CNN America, CCTV China, Bloomberg invited in

Day 6
FoxNewsHD, CNC World ,NDTVTV 24x7 invited in

Day 7
Arise News, RTHD, Al Jazeera, NHKWorld HD, EuroNews
CNBC and CBS NewsHD all invited in.




Evolution Will Not Be Stopped

[arista]

Originally Posted by BlankSpace

If you come here to Cardiff (like many other parts of the country) there are so many homeless people occupying doorways, and most of them have dogs with sweaters and usually have sleeping bags and blankets. I'm tempted sometimes to give them some money, but what if it's a scammer, somebody who tries to act homeless just to squeeze a bit more money out? That's my honest opinion on it all

You Are Most Wise B.S.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Joey
all very Good.

But empty Propertys Belong to people
No PM has changed a thing.

Yes it can take ages
thats why our old army sheds
are better as we can fund
better sensible , direction.
may not work with all of them
but we have a back plan for that.


you talk of dreams
R. Brand style dreams

We talk of Action.

...not really, it's not a reality until/unless it becomes a reality...until then, it's just a dream also....

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...not really, it's not a reality until/unless it becomes a reality...until then, it's just a dream also....

Bang On Right Ammi


Thats why New Laws Brought will leave Joey behind , sadly.

Evolution Will Not Be Stopped

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Bang On Right Ammi


Thats why New Laws Brought will leave Joey behind , sadly.

Evolution Will Not Be Stopped

Joey won't be left behind at all, I would support any genuine effort to really help and support properly the needs of homeless people.

All past actions by all govts have really amounted to little and nothing and often policies have made the situation far worse.

Evolution can be good and bad, I wouldn't put that much faith in things really being described as evolutionary until there are guaranteed successes as to it.
I don't really see this with these proposals but of course I would support any move that also however includes the right help and, more to the point the right people, helping the homeless in any proposal too.

The only people on this issue coming from way behind are politicians and indeed the likes of Church leaders and local authorities,who for decades have payed lip service to the problem of homelessness and done nothing in any way positive and certainly not evolutionary.
Opening up a few old army sheds,may be a step to something better but I hold back from saying it will be, it is hardly evolutionary at all however.

Also lets see the care package planned, that is 'if' there are any care elements to this proposal,which I will doubt further as this present govt. is cutting care left right and centre for all who need it anyway.

My view is, I view this with caution, I'm not falling behind at all as you inappropriately describe me,because until I see a good strong idea that takes into account the 'actual' views and needs of the homeless themselves,with in addition the right care and help and support for them too,by the right people, then it will be only at that time I wholeheartedly look with any real optimism that there is a genuine concern on compassionate grounds in what is done in the future.

[arista]

"I would support any genuine effort to really help and support properly the needs of homeless people."

Thats good to hear

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Joey won't be left behind at all, I would support any genuine effort to really help and support properly the needs of homeless people.

All past actions by all govts have really amounted to little and nothing and often policies have made the situation far worse.

Evolution can be good and bad, I wouldn't put that much faith in things really being described as evolutionary until there are guaranteed successes as to it.
I don't really see this with these proposals but of course I would support any move that also however includes the right help and, more to the point the right people, helping the homeless in any proposal too.

The only people on this issue coming from way behind are politicians and indeed the likes of Church leaders and local authorities,who for decades have payed lip service to the problem of homelessness and done nothing in any way positive and certainly not evolutionary.
Opening up a few old army sheds,may be a step to something better but I hold back from saying it will be, it is hardly evolutionary at all however.

Also lets see the care package planned, that is 'if' there are any care elements to this proposal,which I will doubt further as this present govt. is cutting care left right and centre for all who need it anyway.

My view is, I view this with caution, I'm not falling behind at all as you inappropriately describe me,because until I see a good strong idea that takes into account the 'actual' views and needs of the homeless themselves,with in addition the right care and help and support for them too,by the right people, then it will be only at that time I wholeheartedly look with any real optimism that there is a genuine concern on compassionate grounds in what is done in the future.

Great post Joey, you are better placed than anyone to aid, influence and challenge to achieve balance in society. A hand up is the pro active than a boot to the face which is what many theoretically are receiving at the moment with cuts to welfare and services, even the third sector are tied as funding is stripped back or stopped.
Historically the conservatives believed in a sink or swim attitude to certain sub groups, I believe they are beginning to instill this laissez faire attitudinal shift into wider society to prevent communities from aiding anyone without the ways or means of supporting themselves.
It's not so much evolutionary but a definitive regression for a civilised society to ignore, exclude or marginalise an ever expanding range.

[jennyjuniper]

Tell the obvious scammers to 'f... off' and give to organisations like the Salvation Army and local soup kitchens, who help those who really need the help.