[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

because next step its North Korea


The family member must die for our freedom

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

If you think this is just about a terrorist's phone then you are naive. It's about setting a precedent.

It's a slippery slope, if we compromise our rights for a false sense of security then we'll be taken advantage of in the future since all they'll need to do is link something to terrorists and we'll be all too happy to throw our rights away.

There's going to be nothing of use on that phone, I'm calling it now. The terrorists behind that attack were likely acting alone and the FBI know that, they just want to set a precedent so they can do it in future.

A New Case
FBI are trying to stop a Nuke Bomb in White Van
going off. The Data is on the iPhone

Under Dezzy's Logic that Nuke will Destroy the USA City its in.

As Dezzy wants phones Kept Locked.


Feck Me
Whatever Next

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

Apples and oranges, dear. One has nothing to do with the other.

You can't use the threat of a missing person to justify potentially invading everyone's privacy. You can, however, do pretty much anything as long as you link terrorism to it because it's the ol' saying at work, you can use 9/11 and/or terrorism to justify anything in American politics.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

A New Case
FBI are trying to stop a Nuke Bomb in White Van
going off. The Data is on the iPhone

Under Dezzy's Logic that Nuke will Destroy the USA City its in.

As Dezzy wants phones Kept Locked.


Feck Me
Whatever Next

Using a specific hypothetical situation that fits the world of films more than real life as a counter argument is just silly, more so than usual coming from you.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it isn't that black and white though, there is nothing to say that being able to access a phone owned by a terrorist will give any valuable information and why would Apple as a company who has made the privacy of their phones a huge feature as to why people choose them over others, then take away that feature and security for everyone..I mean you're a businessman Arista, you should understand that surely...would you compromise your own product in such a way so that people may be less inclined to purchase it...



..and yes, it's been a bit of a bittersweet victory, Apple winning the court case but finding out what the weaknesses are that they hadn't been aware of but now that they are, they can address that...

Yes Ammi
Samsung are better

Feck Apple
Stopping Terrorism
is America's Right

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am quite sure Donald McTrump would say

hack the phone and lets make America great again

he is a man of action

[billy123]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

Of course you would Cherie but in making that an option what you are doing in reality is hanging up a sign to all the worlds cyber criminals that says hey this door isnt locked properly we left a way in for you!! free bank details,personal data needed for identity theft,where you live,where your kids go to school even the keys to your car (some car makers are scrapping keys in favour of the RFID chip)
You can be sure making a way in for anyone (even Apple themselves) people with bad intentions will find it almost instantly. The amount of crime it would facilitate and danger it would put people in would dwarf any good that could come of creating a back door to let the FBI in.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Apples and oranges, dear. One has nothing to do with the other.

You can't use the threat of a missing person to justify potentially invading everyone's privacy. You can, however, do pretty much anything as long as you link terrorism to it because it's the ol' saying at work, you can use 9/11 and/or terrorism to justify anything in American politics.

It all boils down to gaining information, we can't pick and choose which scenarios we "give up our freedom for"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bobnot

Of course you would Cherie but in making that an option what you are doing in reality is hanging up a sign to all the worlds cyber criminals that says hey this door isnt locked properly we left a way in for you!! free bank details,personal data needed for identity theft,where you live,where your kids go to school even the keys to your car (some car makers are scrapping keys in favour of the RFD chip)
You can be sure making a way in for anyone (even Apple themselves) people with bad intentions will find it almost instantly. The amount of crime it would facilitate and danger it would put people in would dwarf any good that could come of creating a back door to let the fbi in.

We are up **** creek either way

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Using a specific hypothetical situation that fits the world of films more than real life as a counter argument is just silly, more so than usual coming from you.

Its Not Silly Dezzy
anything can happen.

Nothing to do with Film Scripts

You must Answer
if a iPhone that has Data to Stop a
Terrorist from setting off his
Nuke Bomb in a White Van

Under Your Solid Logic
No you can not look into that phone
Millions Will Die


You must change your View if
the situation becomes so Deadly


Either you want to Stop Terrorists
or you do not want to bother


I am Sorry to be So Crude
Please Reply Dezzy

Make My Day......,

[arista]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I am quite sure Donald McTrump would say

hack the phone and lets make America great again

he is a man of action

Yes
Changes are on the Way

Bring Him On.

[Kizzy]

I'm kind of interested in knowing what the point of 'civil liberties' is?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

Its Not Silly Dezzy
anything can happen.

Nothing to do with Film Scripts

You must Answer
if a iPhone that has Data to Stop a
Terrorist from setting off his
Nuke Bomb in a White Van

Under Your Solid Logic
No you can not look into that phone
Millions Will Die


You must change your View if
the situation becomes so Deadly


Either you want to Stop Terrorists
or you do not want to bother


I am Sorry to be So Crude
Please Reply Dezzy

Make My Day......,

No because that scenario is dumb as ****. How would IS get their hands on a nuke? How would they manage to smuggle said nuke into America undetected. Why, after all that, would they be stupid enough to leave everything that's needed to foil their plot on a phone that the FBI can hack?

It's dumb and I refuse to take your B-movie action plot seriously.

[billy123]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We are up **** creek either way

Pretty much I will have a look for a video i saw the other day. Even Apple call it dancing on the edge of the Volcano They barely stay ahead of the security game when it comes to their software (and they are pretty damn good at it) They admit even if they created a way in that only they knew it would be game over everyones security gone.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It all boils down to gaining information, we can't pick and choose which scenarios we "give up our freedom for"

Well no, you're oversimplifying to suit your own argument to such a point that it's no longer factual.

Looking through a missing person's phone to find them is completely different to using the excuse of terrorism to potentially allow the government to hack whoever they please.

If you can't see the difference between the two scenarios then there's nothing I can do to help you.

[DemolitionRed]

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin

And anyway, if they ban or hack into encrypted messages, terrorists will just start using steganography and there are loads of apps http://www.jjtc.com/Steganography/tools.html. So we sacrifice encryption, allowing the not so good people a back door into our data, whilst doing absolutely nothing to stop terrorists using steganography and other methods to communicate in secret.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

No because that scenario is dumb as ****. How would IS get their hands on a nuke? How would they manage to smuggle said nuke into America undetected. Why, after all that, would they be stupid enough to leave everything that's needed to foil their plot on a phone that the FBI can hack?

It's dumb and I refuse to take your B-movie action plot seriously.

OK you can not Stand the Heat
thank for Your Reply.

Getting a Nuke to go off
in a Van, inside America - would not be
public knowledge
How Isis get one , built, is through Criminals
that trade parts for Big Cash
and no concern for it use.
Getting into into USA via Canada
Any Size Bomb can be set by a mobile phone signal
Fact

[DemolitionRed]

So to break this down, if a family member went unexpectedly missing would you want the police to access their phone and PC or not?

The position of any mobile phone which is switched on and connected to any network (wifi or phone) as long as you know the phones SIM id then you can find it. I would recommend all parents either keep info of their childs SIM or have a 'find my phone' app connected to their phone.

You can follow the tracks of someone by using triangulation from cell towers and that will tell you where their phone has been and when.

The ridiculous thing is, even Apple can't by-pass encryption because they never built a back door in the first place. The reason a back door (hook) has never been made is because it would completely destroy all security in online banking. Presently, the most secure way of doing your banking is to do it by phone connected to a phone network and not a wifi network because the whole process has end to end encryption. Allowing and making a hook would be opening the door to every other criminal in the world.

If this is ever allowed, the banks will immediately switch off all mobile banking, they would have to. It doesn't matter what the government say in response to this nonsense, they are reliant on people not understanding how encryption works and what will happen if and when hooks fall into the wrong hands.

[DemolitionRed]

It is unclear who helped the FBI access the phone and what was stored on the device.

No its not! Its a company in Israel who specialize in this sort of stuff. The thing is, this company is so secure that America will of had to send the phone to them and the company will of sent back information that was stored on that phone. This is why its taken as long as it has.

[arista]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

It is unclear who helped the FBI access the phone and what was stored on the device.

No its not! Its a company in Israel who specialize in this sort of stuff. The thing is, this company is so secure that America will of had to send the phone to them and the company will of sent back information that was stored on that phone. This is why its taken as long as it has.

It does not matter who helped the FBI
it is not going public.


Thats fine

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm kind of interested in knowing what the point of 'civil liberties' is?

Thats for Non Terrorists

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

OK you can not Stand the Heat
thank for Your Reply.

Getting a Nuke to go off
in a Van, inside America - would not be
public knowledge
How Isis get one , built, is through Criminals
that trade parts for Big Cash
and no concern for it use.
Getting into into USA via Canada
Any Size Bomb can be set by a mobile phone signal
Fact

You've watched too much 24, nothing you say has any basis on reality.

You can't buy Uranium in the blackest of black markets and nuclear materials are watched over with a keen eye. You can't just go out and buy nuclear material and making a nuclear bomb isn't exactly something that anyone could do. you need nuclear scientists with the correct equipment on top of the materials and none of IS' territories even have Nuclear capabilities.

There's no way to smuggle a nuke into the US, to suggest it could be done through Canada is dumb.

Finally, how would the FBI get hold of the phone before the attack happens? That kind of evidence only comes to light after the fact, not before. Nothing about your fantastical scenario would ever happen in real life. It's dumb beyond belief.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You've watched too much 24, nothing you say has any basis on reality.

You can't buy Uranium in the blackest of black markets and nuclear materials are watched over with a keen eye. You can't just go out and buy nuclear material and making a nuclear bomb isn't exactly something that anyone could do. you need nuclear scientists with the correct equipment on top of the materials and none of IS' territories even have Nuclear capabilities.

There's no way to smuggle a nuke into the US, to suggest it could be done through Canada is dumb.

Finally, how would the FBI get hold of the phone before the attack happens? That kind of evidence only comes to light after the fact, not before. Nothing about your fantastical scenario would ever happen in real life. It's dumb beyond belief.

Any Parts can be shipped in,
Isis then use White Folks
because its in Parts
and its not detected
once in USA its assembled,


nothing Dumb about that , Dezzy


24 was Great on Sky1HD

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

Any Parts can be shipped in,
Isis then use White Folks
because its in Parts
and its not detected
once in USA its assembled,


nothing Dumb about that , Dezzy


24 was Great on Sky1HD

Yes, because Uranium is something that's easily smuggled.....

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yes, because Uranium is something that's easily smuggled.....

Yes it can be under something else "Sealed"
its not complex for professional handlers