[T*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Faith based schools shouldn't be a thing, religion should be taught in RE in a balanced impartial matter. Religion should never form the backbone of an education facility.

This

[JoshBB]

This is one of the reasons I am opposed to faith schools tbh, this kind of old-fashioned thining could not be promoted in a mixed environment without significant complaints.

[Northern Monkey]

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

Foolishly shortsighted and hysterical. What next? Putting them in camps just in case?

Treating an entire subsection of people like criminals when they haven't done anything will only divide us further. It's suggestions like this that only help IS. Crush extremism when it's found but don't punish innocent people and make them feel like second class citizens out of fear. 'Preventative' action like that sounds more like something IS would endorse.

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Muslim schools need closely monitoring,Not Christian or Jewish or Sikh or Hindu but muslim schools need singling out because it is those that are potentially the biggest threat to this country.We need to make sure that they are not radicalising the muslim children and creating mini future terrorists.Get Islamic schools and mosques cleaned up because they are the problem.

It's not going to do much to prevent radicalisation when you're going to single people out as an enemy before they've done anything wrong. I agree muslim schools need extra monitoring given the stats, but so should christian schools given that violence against muslims by white people has seen an increase in recent years. Not all churches are extremist and neither are all mosques though, and they are not all 'the problem'.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

It's not going to do much to prevent radicalisation when you're going to single people out as an enemy before they've done anything wrong. I agree muslim schools need extra monitoring given the stats, but so should christian schools given that violence against muslims by white people has seen an increase in recent years. Not all churches are extremist and neither are all mosques though, and they are not all 'the problem'.

No but you need to search out and find the problem ones.Muslim schools need to be focussed on because they are the problem.Wasting resources on other areas just to 'make it fair' is pointless and detracts from where the actual threat is coming from.We are'nt America with crazy Christian sects and Sikhs,Hindus and Jews are generally peaceful atleast in this country.
If you get a tumour in your lung then searching your big toe for it won't help.
We should'nt be scared to sniff out terrorism from it's source just because 'it does'nt look PC'

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

No but you need to search out and find the problem ones.Muslim schools need to be focussed on because they are the problem.Wasting resources on other areas just to 'make it fair' is pointless and detracts from where the actual threat is coming from.We are'nt America with crazy Christian sects and Sikhs,Hindus and Jews are generally peaceful atleast in this country.
If you get a tumour in your lung then searching your big toe for it won't help.
We should'nt be scared to sniff out terrorism from it's source just because 'it does'nt look PC'

It's not about being PC, it's about creating a bigger mess out of fear.

If we pre-preemptively treat people like terrorists then we're doing IS' job for them.

[Kizzy]

What is wrong with regulation for all schools state, private or academy?

[Ammi]

...singling out Muslim schools would be a breach of Islamic human rights...this school hasn't been 'singled out', it's being investigated because there are concerns and there have to be concerns like this...schools/any school shouldn't just be investigated or targeted to 'keep a close eye on' unless there are definite reasons to do so...

[Crimson Dynamo]

the answer is to take religion out of schools completely and utterly

[icecakes]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the answer is to take religion out of schools completely and utterly

Exactly school is for learning, not having religion crammed down their throats, let them be kids.

[Marsh.]

Yes, Mock, I was clearly referring to how "fun" school is supposed to be. That was my point.

[Kizzy]

I was the first year to do GCSEs instead of O levels, I remember walking past classrooms and seeing teachers CRYING, I think they knew how things were going to turn out :/

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's a pretty broad statement, though. Is it "An education" in terms of the academic basics of narrow, defined subjects so that they can "get into the world of work and pay their taxes"... or are we talking about a more broad "education" as in actually teaching young people about the world / philosophy / how to think with logic and reason about complex real-world problems.

The aim of the government and current school system, while they like to claim it is that latter, is unquestionably the former of these. They want functional parts for their machine, be that the basic cogs going into min-wage slog or the "more complex parts" going into higher professions or business. At the end of the day, it's rat-race stuff, it's about creating Workers, not Thinkers. Which I personally struggle to define as "an education".

... And like I said, they're not even particularly efficient at that .

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Nah, I went to a school that was (at the time) a top-10 state school in the country. My 6 year old goes to the best (by a mile) state primary school in the county.

They like to dress it up in frills and distractions to make it seem, on the surface, like it's about more than getting you out there as a productive proletarian... but fundamentally, that is the aim. Full stop. They want to "educate" you to meet your earning potential, be that builder or brain surgeon. Beyond that, they have absolutely zero interest in expanding your world-view or what you might do with the rest of your "non-work" life.

Let me be clear that this isn't true of all teachers - there are some wonderful teachers in our schools - but it is true of the system as a whole, it's built into the very foundations of it. Obedience and homogenisation. There's a reason that countless young teachers become quickly disillusioned and end up leaving the profession, even after spending years and thousands of pounds in training.

..I'm sorry about your own experiences with schools TS..both yours and your children's and others that you might know but it's not accurate to generalise all schools in such a way because many do encourage creative/critical and independent thinking...it's the ethos to do so of not only our school but of many schools..to encourage it also with active participation of parents in social and philosophy times...and there are also many reasons why teaching staff make choices to leave their profession...and I have to say, that (some) parents also do have a part in some of those decisions, some decisions that I've personally known of, to leave the profession..that with the best and most loving intentions, they themselves can be a huge issue in hindering their child's individuality..and frustrations that teaching staff have with that as well...

[user104658]

I'm not saying those elements aren't there though, Ammi. Like I said, a big part of the claim across the board is that these things are being encouraged and on the surface there are plenty of elements of it. However, when you chip away at the surface a little, it becomes clear that those things are the "add on activities". The core function of the school system is to prepare average kids for average work as an adult. The resources and structures simply are not available to properly cater to especially bright or especially challenged children with any meaningful individual focus, the bulk of the learning experience is standardised, homogenised and ultimately, arbitrarily graded.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not saying those elements aren't there though, Ammi. Like I said, a big part of the claim across the board is that these things are being encouraged and on the surface there are plenty of elements of it. However, when you chip away at the surface a little, it becomes clear that those things are the "add on activities". The core function of the school system is to prepare average kids for average work as an adult. The resources and structures simply are not available to properly cater to especially bright or especially challenged children with any meaningful individual focus, the bulk of the learning experience is standardised, homogenised and ultimately, arbitrarily graded.

...but it always was though, in that the core has always been National Curriculum based obviously and certain things/topics have to be covered in lessons but what does vary a lot ..(and is to do with individual schools/teaching staff etc..)...is how those topics are covered, that's why it can't be generalised, even though topics are set...it's not about philosophy for instance only being covered in a specific lesson, it's about it being applied in all lessons, which it can be...and about children learning to apply in every day life as well, which is very much individual/analytical and critical thinking...(I don't believe in any exam system btw but that's another thing....)...but I do feel that most schools I know, try as best they can to cater for individual children, whatever their needs are plus very much try to involve parents as well so that they can help as they (generally..)..haven't got 30 children whose each individuality is being considered....plus budgets, budgets, budgets baby../a nightmare as always...but I have to say..(in my humble opinion and experiences of course..)...a huge 'hinderer' in some cases with encouraging a child's individuality is that positive steps forward by the school and other outside resources if applicable are often then taken steps back, by a parent themselves....

[user104658]

Oh I'm not saying it was ever good or that it's getting worse Ammi! Don't panic! If anything it is marginally better than when I was at primary school. Or at least most of the teachers seem to try, there are still a couple of ol' battleaxes. However saying it's the best it's ever been isn't the same as saying it's actually good or ideal... Like I said, at its core it's about homogeny and getting everyone to the same "basic standard" in everything, less focus on really concentrating on areas where certain individuals excell and disregarding the areas where they don't a little...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh I'm not saying it was ever good or that it's getting worse Ammi! Don't panic! If anything it is marginally better than when I was at primary school. Or at least most of the teachers seem to try, there are still a couple of ol' battleaxes. However saying it's the best it's ever been isn't the same as saying it's actually good or ideal... Like I said, at its core it's about homogeny and getting everyone to the same "basic standard" in everything, less focus on really concentrating on areas where certain individuals excell and disregarding the areas where they don't a little...

Getting everyone to read, write and do basic maths can't be a bad thing! Don't they have a Gifted and Talented programme in your school?

[Cherie]

Maybe you could home school as you are so annoyed with the curriculum?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Getting everyone to read, write and do basic maths can't be a bad thing! Don't they have a Gifted and Talented programme in your school?

No it's not a "bad thing" but it's also not enough.

Originally Posted by Cherie

Maybe you could home school as you are so annoyed with the curriculum?

Yes this seems like exactly the right thing to do, for anyone who has a complaint or criticism about anything. Opt out and ignore it, right?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Toy Soldier;8604108]No it's not a "bad thing" but it's also not enough.

You didn't answer the question 're Gifted and Talented

Yes this seems like exactly the right thing to do, for anyone who has a complaint or criticism about anything. Opt out and ignore it, right?[/QUOTE


In my experience if you opt out of the system...the system sits up and takes notice

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oh I'm not saying it was ever good or that it's getting worse Ammi! Don't panic! If anything it is marginally better than when I was at primary school. Or at least most of the teachers seem to try, there are still a couple of ol' battleaxes. However saying it's the best it's ever been isn't the same as saying it's actually good or ideal... Like I said, at its core it's about homogeny and getting everyone to the same "basic standard" in everything, less focus on really concentrating on areas where certain individuals excell and disregarding the areas where they don't a little...

..how could it ever be 'ideal', I mean that would just be impossible to totally, individually tailor lesson structure etc for each child in a school so there has to be a 'mainstream' core etc...but whatever that core was, it wouldn't suit everyone for the reason that we are all individuals... and each individual child does have personal plans/targets etc, which are individually structured for them..their needs, their abilities etc..these are also set with parent's input as well...and I would say that it's a bit more than 'marginally' better than back in the day because it isn't all geared up to academics anymore in the way that it used to be....

...anyways, I do understand how frustrating it is for parents as well if they feel they have a 'gifted and talented' child..(at Primary School level, I specifically mean and at the start of their early years learning..)...and maybe feeling that their child's needs aren't being met..?...obviously I don't know about you child's needs specifically or her school but schools/teachers also have to factor into personal plans that progressions will not necessarily follow at equal paces ..so for instance, a child in Reception or Year 1..?..could excel in some things in comparison with others in the class but the progression in others could be at a much faster pace, so children could not only catch up but could 'over-take' as well...so it's also not to push a child 'too hard' as well, which could only effect their confidence, so many things to take into consideration ...even if home schooled, a core curriculum would be the same and still have to be followed...anyways, whatever special needs and requirements a child may need, whether it be 'gifted and talented' or the opposite extreme of a child who struggles to achieve...schools do get funding for those children (so for that reason as well..)...they very much support individual children in meeting their needs as best they can..(in my experience..)...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..how could it ever be 'ideal', I mean that would just be impossible to totally, individually tailor lesson structure etc for each child in a school so there has to be a 'mainstream' core etc...but whatever that core was, it wouldn't suit everyone for the reason that we are all individuals... and each individual child does have personal plans/targets etc, which are individually structured for them..their needs, their abilities etc..these are also set with parent's input as well...and I would say that it's a bit more than 'marginally' better than back in the day because it isn't all geared up to academics anymore in the way that it used to be....

...anyways, I do understand how frustrating it is for parents as well if they feel they have a 'gifted and talented' child..(at Primary School level, I specifically mean and at the start of their early years learning..)...and maybe feeling that their child's needs aren't being met..?...obviously I don't know about you child's needs specifically or her school but schools/teachers also have to factor into personal plans that progressions will not necessarily follow at equal paces ..so for instance, a child in Reception or Year 1..?..could excel in some things in comparison with others in the class but the progression in others could be at a much faster pace, so children could not only catch up but could 'over-take' as well...so it's also not to push a child 'too hard' as well, which could only effect their confidence, so many things to take into consideration ...even if home schooled, a core curriculum would be the same and still have to be followed...anyways, whatever special needs and requirements a child may need, whether it be 'gifted and talented' or the opposite extreme of a child who struggles to achieve...schools do get funding for those children (so for that reason as well..)...they very much support individual children in meeting their needs as best they can..(in my experience..)...

Like I said Ammi, you more or less follow / respect the "status quo of life" so you're never going to understand what I'm saying. I find it depressing that schools are essentially factories designed to churn out "productive citizens", worker bees who get the "best job they can" then do that for 50 years, retire for 10, then die.

It doesn't matter whether bright kids go through faster or attain more and get jobs which require more qualifications, or if little Billy's nin-academic strengths are identified so that he can get a good and productive non-academic job... It's all geared towards the same thing. Prepping kids to grow up and work themselves into the grave.

Essentially my problem is that I don't think there's enough time for kids to just be kids. I don't think the issue is that Sally Smith is stuck on Book B7 of the Blue series when she should be on C1 Orange. I think the issue is that kids are lined up, homogenised and prepped to be cogs in a crappy machine instead of being given any time at all to explore, be curious, and learn in unstructured, creative, chaotic ways. Like you said, even if you choose to home school, you still "have to" follow the basic curriculum. You CAN'T even opt out. We're herded into these structured little factories at 5 years old, moulded and drilled into "something productive", and we don't leave the production line until we retire. Which is now aged 70. So basically dead.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Like I said Ammi, you more or less follow / respect the "status quo of life" so you're never going to understand what I'm saying. I find it depressing that schools are essentially factories designed to churn out "productive citizens", worker bees who get the "best job they can" then do that for 50 years, retire for 10, then die.

It doesn't matter whether bright kids go through faster or attain more and get jobs which require more qualifications, or if little Billy's nin-academic strengths are identified so that he can get a good and productive non-academic job... It's all geared towards the same thing. Prepping kids to grow up and work themselves into the grave.

Essentially my problem is that I don't think there's enough time for kids to just be kids. I don't think the issue is that Sally Smith is stuck on Book B7 of the Blue series when she should be on C1 Orange. I think the issue is that kids are lined up, homogenised and prepped to be cogs in a crappy machine instead of being given any time at all to explore, be curious, and learn in . Like you said, even if you choose to home school, you still "have to" follow the basic curriculum. You CAN'T even opt out. We're herded into these structured little factories at 5 years old, moulded and drilled into "something productive", and we don't leave the production line until we retire. Which is now aged 70. So basically dead.

....hmmm, I wouldn't say that receiving physical injuries or/and vocal abuse on almost a daily basis is 'following a status quo in life' so that really isn't me at all TS... but yes, I do hold great respect for the children I work with because I know that their aim was'is never to hurt me or anyone else as such, but is only their own frustrations and struggles with 'individuality'....so I do completely understand what you're saying TS...but I just don't agree with it is all, not as a generalisation of all schools because some schools do encourage individual/critical thinking through many things..many things in school..so far as it's possible..)..and many changes in school are choices of the children and not choices of the staff...and their choices are also something they discuss with their parents if they wish to...and 'unstructured, creative, chaotic ways' are all part of school times as well..(both in lesson time and after school activities..)...but obviously curriculum lessons have to be followed as well so that children do have balances and information to be able to make their individual choices in life at the times they will make them...