[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of the £34 million that farage stated we send to the EU how much will be spent on Middlesboro then given that george osborne has stated we are entering a new phase of austerity?

My guess is none as they all lied.

I cannot answer that Kizzy - it needs many calculations to be carried out - but I do agree that THEY ARE ALL LIARS, but it is up to us to END this style of non-Government NOW.

The ENTIRE 'AUSTERITY' measures have been a dupe - there is ENOUGH money collected from our over-taxed hard-pressed people, it just NEEDS US TO ENSURE THAT IT IS SPENT PROPERLY ON WHAT IT SHOULD BE - US.

[Johnnyuk123]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Thank you Johnny - I am here to be shot down if I do lie, or debunked with counter facts.

I am so sick of all the mistruths about the EU, that I decided to do this thread, and I was hoping to get away from being sniped or adverse comments being made which have nothing to do with the issues being posted.

This 'Referendum' fracas is beyond political persuasions or political figure fan bases - it will create a huge schism in Great Britain if it is not TRUTHFULLY discussed and some sort of resolution reached.

Your welcome Kirk
As per usual some are only happy when complaining. We cannot help those who blame everything on everyone but themselves. Some people are simply happy to remain bitter. Leave them to it i say.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

From the EU member states, my question is where will Middlesboro get it's funding from now?

Depends on what the funding was for in the first place.
If it is to do with the extra funding for asylum seekers then George will be dipping into his purse, he was on about it in his speech this morning.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Looking forward to being £30 a week better off then!

...except that I, you, and everyone else knows that that is not going to happen. Not ONE of these "hard working" individuals you talk about is going to be financially better off in any real way for being out of the EU. Do you think the govt. will cut any of the tax that currently goes out to the EU? Not a chance. Will any of the towns or areas that receive EU help currently, have that help mirrored by London once we are out? Highly unlikely.

So yeah. The people being "ripped off" by the EU right now in your example are NOT going to be any better off now that we're out. It's bull****. At the same time, the overall cost of removing ourselves from the EU is ---DEFINITELY--- going to hurt the vulnerable most. You know it.

So what is the point? No real person's real life is going to be any better in any real way for any of this. Utter mess.

So - are you agreeing that my points about the Sheriff of Nottingham tax and the EU Gravy Train and Corruption are correct or not?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva

One thing I don't see from any of the pro-EUers is disgust with the gravy-train in Brussels. Are there any Remainers who have the guts to at least admit how disgusting the whole system is?

Of course it's disgusting, it's a hive of politics. The whole damn world is slick with filth and utterly foul to the core. Do you imagine people see it as a gleaming beacon of light and justice? No such thing exists. The ONLY thing that matters is ensuring that normal people can live good individual lives. Brexit is going to be economically disastrous for this country and normal people are going to suffer. Is that worth some ideological crusade to "stick it to the bureaocrats"? When they are all so personally rich that they don't actually give a **** anyway? I mean really. People "laughing" and "jeering" at "poor old David Cameron" having to step down as PM. Embarrassment? Sure. Now the poor sod has to go off and live his life however he wants, wherever he wants, because he is a millionaire. Boo hoo! You can't "stick it to them". It is a game to them. It doesn't really matter on ANY individual level to them. They will not personally suffer, beyond their egos. Normal people will.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I cannot answer that Kizzy - it needs many calculations to be carried out - but I do agree that THEY ARE ALL LIARS, but it is up to us to END this style of non-Government NOW.

The ENTIRE 'AUSTERITY' measures have been a dupe - there is ENOUGH money collected from our over-taxed hard-pressed people, it just NEEDS US TO ENSURE THAT IT IS SPENT PROPERLY ON WHAT IT SHOULD BE - US.

But we WON'T Kirk. This is exactly what terrifies me; that all the hopes and reassurances of those who voted for this, and can see it all coming good, hinge on us now being out and getting some sort of "better, fairer, for the people" government into place. It's pie in the sky idealism! It WON'T ****ing happen! You're stripping away a massive safety net not on the basis that we can actually do OK --as we are right now-- out of Europe, but that there will also be some sort of huge political revolution that sees us vote normal, caring, benevolent people into Westminster??? An absolutely massive and unrealistic caveat??

We will continue to be ****ed in the arse by these same people, from these same families and same schools, who care nothing for the wellbeing of the individual.

We WON'T end this style of government.

We WON'T be able to ensure that the money is spent properly.

We WILL be at the mercy of rampant capitalists who will strip us for every penny and then work us yet harder.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

So - are you agreeing that my points about the Sheriff of Nottingham tax and the EU Gravy Train and Corruption are correct or not?

Just the same as above Kirk. It may well be entirely true but if you think we're going to see a penny back of that money, or it being spent in any way more constructively, now that we're out of the EU you are simply dreaming.

Do you think they are going to cut tax? Or that we're going to see our crumbling towns rejuvinated by the money being better spent? Or that it will go to he NHS, or education, or our other public services? Is that something you truly, in your heart of hearts, see on the horizon?

...will you even bother to look into what's going to happen to that money now, so long as it isn't going to the "EU gravy train"? Because I know it won't be back in our pockets. I 100% know it as certainly as you know any of your own "facts". I think you know it, too, I just frankly think you'd be happier to see the money burnt than sent to Europe.

[Tom4784]

truth
truːθ/Submit
noun
the quality or state of being true.
"he had to accept the truth of her accusation"
synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, sincerity, candour, honesty, genuineness; More
that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
noun: the truth
"tell me the truth"
synonyms: the fact of the matter, what actually/really happened, the case, so; More
a fact or belief that is accepted as true.
plural noun: truths
"the emergence of scientific truths"

opinion
əˈpɪnjən/Submit
noun
1.
a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"that, in my opinion, is right"
synonyms: belief, judgement, thought(s), school of thought, thinking, way of thinking, mind, point of view, view, viewpoint, outlook, angle, slant, side, attitude, stance, perspective, position, standpoint; More
2.
a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter.
"if in doubt, get a second opinion"

The UK's done goofed and long winded opinion pieces aren't going to change that we're in the ****. Accepting the situation and dealing with it is what's important now. Optimism, vague hope and unrealistic expectations might have worked for the Brexit campaign but that's over now. Now's the time to face reality.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course it's disgusting, it's a hive of politics. The whole damn world is slick with filth and utterly foul to the core. Do you imagine people see it as a gleaming beacon of light and justice? No such thing exists. The ONLY thing that matters is ensuring that normal people can live good individual lives. Brexit is going to be economically disastrous for this country and normal people are going to suffer. Is that worth some ideological crusade to "stick it to the bureaocrats"? When they are all so personally rich that they don't actually give a **** anyway? I mean really. People "laughing" and "jeering" at "poor old David Cameron" having to step down as PM. Embarrassment? Sure. Now the poor sod has to go off and live his life however he wants, wherever he wants, because he is a millionaire. Boo hoo! You can't "stick it to them". It is a game to them. It doesn't really matter or ANY individual level to them. They will not personally suffer, beyond their egos. Normal people will.



But we WON'T Kirk. This is exactly what terrifies me; that all the hopes and reassurances of those who voted for this, and can see it all coming good, hinge on us now being out and getting some sort of "better, fairer, for the people" government into place. It's pie in the sky idealism! It WON'T ****ing happen! You're stripping away a massive safety net not on the basis that we can actually do OK as we are out of Europe, but that there will also be some sort of huge political revolution that sees us vote normal, caring, benevolent people into Westminster??? An absolutely massive and unrealistic caveat??

We will continue to be ****ed in the arse by these same people, from these same families and same schools, who care nothing for the wellbeing of the individual.

We WON'T end this style of government.

We WON'T be able to ensure that the money is spent properly.

We WILL be at the mercy of rampant capitalists who will strip us for every penny and then work us yet harder.

What 'Safety Net' - do you mean the EU?

It is a failed and failing festering nest of corruption. OUR money has disproprtionately kept it afloat and on EVERY single FACT which the Remain camp relied on to support their claim that the EU was 'beneficial to us' was a huge PROVABLE lie - which is the idea behind this thread T.S.

I sincerely hope to prove as much on this thread as time allows.

As to your contention that we cannot enforce a government which is open and honest and 'for the peope' - WE CAN T.S.

There are probably more brains on this forum than among some of our MP's - who could not secure jobs as dustbin men if it were not for the meal ticket which is Westminster - and if we all resoved to campaign over the net or whatever, that will be picked up on, believe me, and something revolutionary COULD happen.

It will NOT happen if we are defeatist and overwhelmed.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The UK's done goofed and long winded opinion pieces aren't going to change that we're in the ****. Accepting the situation and dealing with it is what's important now. Optimism, vague hope and unrealistic expectations might have worked for the Brexit campaign but that's over now. Now's the time to face reality.

Do you feel lie commenting on my expose?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Do you feel lie commenting on my expose?

The only thing you exposed is that you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact. It's just a really weird campaign post that's one week too late. It's pointless.

Like I said before, the campaign is over and we're in for a ****storm. Focus on that instead of campaigning for something that has been and gone.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I cannot answer that Kizzy - it needs many calculations to be carried out - but I do agree that THEY ARE ALL LIARS, but it is up to us to END this style of non-Government NOW.

The ENTIRE 'AUSTERITY' measures have been a dupe - there is ENOUGH money collected from our over-taxed hard-pressed people, it just NEEDS US TO ENSURE THAT IT IS SPENT PROPERLY ON WHAT IT SHOULD BE - US.

Guess who will make it fairer?....Corbyn.

Not conservatives, not blairites, not UKIP ....they have all proved they have no clue how to proceed other than telling us that the poor will get considerably poorer, how nobody guessed that is beyond me mind you, as none of those parties would know the truth if it kneed them in the nads!

The ONLY man with a plan is Corbyn!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Guess who will make it fairer?....Corbyn.

Not conservatives, not blairites, not UKIP ....they have all proved they have no clue how to proceed other than telling us that the poor will get considerably poorer, how nobody guessed that is beyond me mind you, as none of those parties would know the truth if it kneed them in the nads!

The ONLY man with a plan is Corbyn!

I actually believe that it is time to discard the outdated 'Right Wing' Left Wing' 'in my lady's chamber' politics - the world has changed and is ever more rapidly changing.

I believe that we need a new system - a Government drawn of individuals from all parties.

Farage and Corbyn would have their place in such a Government, but a 'coalition' of THE best politicians could make THE difference.

I am pig-sick of the same tired tripe and the BS which spews forth from ALL their mouths come a time when they want something from us - extra to the power and privilege and wealth which we already give them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I actually believe that it is time to discard the outdated 'Right Wing' Left Wing' 'in my lady's chamber' politics - the world has changed and is ever more rapidly changing.

I believe that we need a new system - a Government drawn of individuals from all parties.

Farage and Corbyn would have their place in such a Government, but a 'coalition' of THE best politicians could make THE difference.

I am pig-sick of the same tired tripe and the BS which spews forth from ALL their mouths come a time when they want something from us - extra to the power and privilege and wealth which we already give them.

So you are pro revolution now? * rings Russell Brand*

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The only thing you exposed is that you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact. It's just a really weird campaign post that's one week too late. It's pointless.

Like I said before, the campaign is over and we're in for a ****storm. Focus on that instead of campaigning for something that has been and gone.

Why the aggression? I am not campaigning for anything, I am attempting to nail all the BS being spouted on these threads by posting FACTS, and despite your and some others, very predictable comments to the contrary - I am posting facts.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

As to your contention that we cannot enforce a government which is open and honest and 'for the peope' - WE CAN T.S.

There are probably more brains on this forum than among some of our MP's - who could not secure jobs as dustbin men if it were not for the meal ticket which is Westminster - and if we all resoved to campaign over the net or whatever, that will be picked up on, believe me, and something revolutionary COULD happen.

It will NOT happen if we are defeatist and overwhelmed.

I didn't say we can't, I said we probably won't. Something revolutionary could happen, but it probably won't.

Is that being defeatist? Probably, but it's also realistic and firmly based on literally ALL of the evidence... there is no indication that we will change this. I don't have faith in the public. I honest-to-my-socks believe that 75% of the public is unintelligent, pig-ignorant and easily lead and will continue to vote for whatever it is The Sun happens to be telling them to vote for that week. There have been three major votes here in the last year - that is exactly what has happened in every single one of them.

I know that's not a popular opinion and people get butt-hurt over it, "U can't tell dat peoples are teh stoopid dat is rong!" and Ammi will tell me off and stuff, but god damn it they just straight up are. Most people. Stupid. You know it.

Sigh.

It's not even that I can't appreciate the challenge or the sense of adventure here Kirk. I said in another thread, when I was a student in my early 20's I would actually have been all for this. Genuinely all for it. I know that the EU is an elitist shambles and that's the sort of thing I hate with a passion. I just also know that UK domestic politics is no different. Unencumbered by responsibility I'd be all for fighting that and hoping that it could be changed, even if the chance is small, I'd say "**** it let's give it a damned good shot".

I don't have that luxury now. And my gut feeling is that we have damaged the country, irreparably. We won't get the sort of trade deals we would like, we won't have much of a seat at the world table for long, and every single normal individual in this country will be worse off - and some cripplingly, disastrously so - for no real political gain. Living under scummy overlords. Doesn't matter if they're in London or Brussels or a dome on the Moon.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why the aggression? I am not campaigning for anything, I am attempting to nail all the BS being spouted on these threads by posting FACTS, and despite your and some others, very predictable comments to the contrary - I am posting facts.

I'm not being aggressive, i'm being realistic, also someone that can't go a post without CAPITALISED and bold words shouldn't accuse anyone of being aggressive.

The campaign is over, you are beating a dead horse. Your side won and now you've got to accept the ramifications of that. The fantasy that Brexit was peddling is not going to happen and living in the recent past won't change that. Stop campaigning and accept the situation we're currently in.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Why the aggression? I am not campaigning for anything, I am attempting to nail all the BS being spouted on these threads by posting FACTS, and despite your and some others, very predictable comments to the contrary - I am posting facts.

I hate to be a pain but do you have a source for those facts?

[Kizzy]

If brexit was a viable option, where was the preparation?... why was there no system in place so we hit the ground running?

Every single leave advocate that was bleating on relentlessly was suddenly a stunned mullet, they still are.

[Walter White]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not being aggressive, i'm being realistic, also someone that can't go a post without CAPITALISED and bold words shouldn't accuse anyone of being aggressive.

The campaign is over, you are beating a dead horse. Your side won and now you've got to accept the ramifications of that. The fantasy that Brexit was peddling is not going to happen and living in the recent past won't change that. Stop campaigning and accept the situation we're currently in.

kirk's a leaver? And here was I thinking he and I might bond over our mutual love of Star Trek. There's that idea down the crapper.

[_Tom_]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If brexit was a viable option, where was the preparation?... why was there no system in place so we hit the ground running?

Every single leave advocate that was bleating on relentlessly was suddenly a stunned mullet, they still are.

The reason there's no "Brexit plan" is because the Remain camp (David Cameron) BANNED the Civil Service from making one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by _Tom_

The reason there's no "Brexit plan" is because the Remain camp (David Cameron) BANNED the Civil Service from making one.

I find that hard to believe, any link to that 'fact' Tom?

[Liberty4eva]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course it's disgusting, it's a hive of politics. The whole damn world is slick with filth and utterly foul to the core. Do you imagine people see it as a gleaming beacon of light and justice? No such thing exists.

Thank you for your honesty. I suspected but now know that you are not coming from a position of optimism. The system relies upon people who believe that the system is and forever will be corrupt. The devolution of power to the local level and the enhancement of the individual's responsibility for himself or herself within that society is the way to minimize this corruption.

One of the things that baffles me is why the young people supported the EU. The young people are usually the dreamers who want to fight corruption and not tolerate (or even embrace) it. The older generation is usually the one that doesn't want to rock the boat.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The ONLY thing that matters is ensuring that normal people can live good individual lives. Brexit is going to be economically disastrous for this country and normal people are going to suffer.

If ordinary people were the ones who would suffer then why did all of the banks and big business support Remain? Do you think they did it because they were concerned that normal people would suffer?

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Is that worth some ideological crusade to "stick it to the bureaocrats"?

I am of the opinion that we in the west are losing our way. The corruption gets worse all the time and it will continue to get worse until the people stand up and say "enough!" I don't want to just "stick it to the bureaocrats" I want them out of our lives now and forever. Let them get a job in the private sector and learn how to actually produce something that has value to someone else. It's time to stop thinking that you have to live with these leeches.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

When they are all so personally rich that they don't actually give a **** anyway? I mean really. People "laughing" and "jeering" at "poor old David Cameron" having to step down as PM. Embarrassment? Sure. Now the poor sod has to go off and live his life however he wants, wherever he wants, because he is a millionaire. Boo hoo! You can't "stick it to them". It is a game to them.

I am not sure I understand what point you are trying to make. Of course it's a game to them. I don't know if you get this but a part of the game (even moreso than the money) is them controlling society. When they have all the money they could possibly ever need do you think they just go home and dive in it like Scrooge McDuck? How globalists get their kicks is not by money but power and control. Getting my country back to me is also a game I play.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It doesn't really matter on ANY individual level to them. They will not personally suffer, beyond their egos. Normal people will.

I think you should reread this sentence because I hope, upon reflection, you realize how silly this sounds. Losing the referendum is a MASSIVE deal to them.

[_Tom_]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I find that hard to believe, any link to that 'fact' Tom?

Yes:



BBC News

The Civil Service was banned from helping ANY Leave-backing minister to make contingency plans for Brexit.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And the poorest boroughs, what about their EU funding? The MP for Middlesborough yesterday was saying how the loss of EU funding to his town will be catastrophic...what do we say to them?

we say to them, you ****ing idiots, you voted out?

Sorry, not here for places that voted overwhelmingly to leave now bitching on about the funding they recieved from the EU now being cut, which is what is happening. Seen the same about Cornwall too. Idiots...

[_Tom_]

More myth-busting: