[the truth]

scotland already has the bets of both worlds a parliament , yet they still votes on matters in england and wales but we dont vote on their laws? tax raising powers will be their next goal after their non existent eu deal goes up in smoke

[Johnnyuk123]

Scotland have more chance of winning the European football cup 2016 than they have of rejoining the EU. Oh wait...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Johnnyuk123

Scotland have more chance of winning the European football cup 2016 than they have of rejoining the EU. Oh wait...

[arista]

[arista]

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by arista

"Frightened of democracy" says the woman who wants to ignore the results of two different referenda

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

"Frightened of democracy" says the woman who wants to ignore the results of two different referenda

Except she's not frightened to hold votes in the light of public opinion changing.

She could be condemned were she not standing up still for the 62% of her voters who voted to remain.

In a democracy you can and do change your mind and by voting that change of opinion is expressed.
If voting is denied, then that could be from fear of the now result.

It's why we vote in elections every 4/5 years.
In fact the voters have been asked to change their minds between 2015 to 2020, 3 times in as many general elections.

The Scottish referendum was over 6 years ago now..
The EU one over 4 years ago

She's happy to hold more, with the support of her Party and the voters who back her in direct Scottish elections plus sending the vast majority of SNP MPs to Westminster.

So she has no issue with votes and democracy.
However the UK PM and government has.

Only one element fearing the result of more voting there that I can see.
Because they know they're wrong and doing wrong too.

[Cherie]

Pretty sure Nicola said at the time of indyref it was 'once in a lifetime' that said the last year has seemed like a lifetime

I hope they get their second indyref, I doubt it would shut her up if she lost again though

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Pretty sure Nicola said at the time of indyref it was 'once in a lifetime' that said the last year has seemed like a lifetime

I hope they get their second indyref, I doubt it would shut her up if she lost again though

no Alex Salmond said that but it was his personal opinion only

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Pretty sure Nicola said at the time of indyref it was 'once in a lifetime' that said the last year has seemed like a lifetime

I hope they get their second indyref, I doubt it would shut her up if she lost again though

She seems to be of the "keep trying until we get the answer I want" school of democracy .

[joeysteele]

I'm not sure he's frightened by it.
I think he just has a tendency to not accept it and not believe in it, when it doesn't suit him.
Worrying that should be in my view.

[Samm]

The Union is dead, brexit and covid have made that clear, ever since 2016 this country has been going down a slippery slope, isolating its self and loosing touch with the younger generation. I’m embarrassed to be british, I would much rather class myself as European. I think there’s a lot of underlying problems like this current government, the unhealthy obsession with the war and probably the monarchy. A big change like a republic country would be a starting point.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Samm

The Union is dead, brexit and covid have made that clear, ever since 2016 this country has been going down a slippery slope, isolating its self and loosing touch with the younger generation. I’m embarrassed to be British, I would much rather class myself as European. I think there’s a lot of underlying problems like this current government, the unhealthy obsession with the war and probably the monarchy. A big change like a republic country would be a starting point.

No Young Man


James and Josy in Scotland
are happy to stay within our UK.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Samm

The Union is dead, brexit and covid have made that clear, ever since 2016 this country has been going down a slippery slope, isolating its self and loosing touch with the younger generation. I’m embarrassed to be british, I would much rather class myself as European. I think there’s a lot of underlying problems like this current government, the unhealthy obsession with the war and probably the monarchy. A big change like a republic country would be a starting point.

I agree with a lot you list there.

I have always thought brexit would split the Union irreparably.
With this useless PM we have, there's no chance of unifying the UK in my view.

Neither under his 2 leaders before him.

I can see the movement growing in N Ireland too.
However during the EU campaign some Con supporters the break up of the UK was a price worth paying for brexit.
So they are likely to get that.

I'm happy to think of myself as British and European.
Then I'd rather move closer to than move away from other Nations.

Of course there's many, obviously even in polling it's still over 4 in 10 who don't want Scotland to be independent..
In UK democracy 4 in 10 don't matter as in the EU referendum.

Therein lies the problem now in my view in part.
Under successive governments, I include Blair in this and other Prime Ministers.
( I'll exclude Gordon Brown).
Scotland's opinions don't matter, certainly not to this PM and a strong force in his party as to backbenchers..who can only set out to ridicule and put down any representation from those sent by Scottish voters, except their own handful of MPs in the Con party.

For as long as the SNP remain strong and they're seemingly getting stronger.
Then independence will always be on the agenda.
Which is what the SNP has always wanted, hence their name.
So it's no surprise.

For, and I've said this before, a UK government to in effect keep Scotland hostage in the UK, against the now clear will of the majority of Scots voters.
Is unsustainable and will lead to massive likely constitutional chaos.

So I thought it once unthinkable even over my 28 years to think of the break up of the UK.
Sadly, brexit, this awful PM and his hard-line rotten government however, could well really have already started to plant the seeds that will destroy the existence of both the UK and indeed Great Britain.

I also doubt, as that gains more momentum, that Wales will just want to be stuck with England as a kind of just Wales-shire of England.

This isn't scientific in any ways.
However of 12 of my own relatives in Scotland who will reach voting age this year at 18.
9 would now vote for independence in a referendum.
So as you say, it seems possibly more of the newer younger voters, will be demanding this issue to not be taken away, or to even go away.

[Cherie]

everyone from Europe is European, you have to hail from some country in Europe, its not really that simple to say I'm European and not British as your passport will say otherwise

and if you no really no longer want to be British then you will have to move elsewhere apply for residency, live there for the requisite number of years required and then apply for that country's passport

British people have never been required by economics to move outside their home country except by choice and they really come across as spoilt brats at times

[Ammi]

...once in a lifetime could never be democracy and Boris’ NO isn’t democracy either...if the Scottish people want another referendum, if that’s the will of the people ...then I hope that they can get it...

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...once in a lifetime could never be democracy and Boris’ NO isn’t democracy either...if the Scottish people want another referendum, if that’s the will of the people ...then I hope that they can get it...

Its Not just the once in a lifetime,
also, it's because of the Pandemic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic

[Livia]

Nicola Sturgeon has 5 million people to worry about. London alone has twice that number. And the perception is that she's done a great job. But that's perception for you. More people, proportionally, have been dying from Covid in Scotland than in England.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

More people, proportionally, have been dying from Covid in Scotland than in England.

Why would you post something so confidently online that's is provably just flat out false?

I'm not going to pretend Scotland is doing great, on the whole the numbers and the shapes of the graphs more or less mirror England, but as the current figures stand, deaths in England are at 139 per 100,000 population and deaths in Scotland are at 105 per 100,000 population, meaning that proportionately, deaths in England are about 30% higher. I'm on my phone right now but I'm happy to post the actual figures and graphs at a later time.

Its not a competition of course, just not sure why you'd post something that's outright untrue when all that's needed to disprove it is Google and a calculator.

[arista]

UK Prime Minister
will Block it 100%.


No 2nd Vote Permitted
FACT

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

UK Prime Minister
will Block it 100%.


No 2nd Vote Permitted
FACT

How many times has he said NO repeatedly to something then been forced to do it.

He CANNOT act like a Soviet Union leader and keep people who no longer want to be part of his brand of the UK, hostage.

If the support stays and/ rises further for independence he would lead us into an unknown constitutional crisis.
Which he could not probably control.

Plus,IF he dictates his own will against the wishes of a growing majority of Scots voters.
Then he'll lead things into the court arena again.

He can huff and puff all he likes, however in now LESS than 4 years time, he could or his successor be leading at best only a minority government.

He has no assured votes then to deny the demands of a majority of Scots.
Or those in N Ireland either.

He's just a man arista he's not a god!!!!!

[Samm]

Originally Posted by Cherie

everyone from Europe is European, you have to hail from some country in Europe, its not really that simple to say I'm European and not British as your passport will say otherwise

and if you no really no longer want to be British then you will have to move elsewhere apply for residency, live there for the requisite number of years required and then apply for that country's passport

British people have never been required by economics to move outside their home country except by choice and they really come across as spoilt brats at times

Obviously, however in terms of lifestyle I feel I relate more to a European style, of course I can't erase that i'm from here, I didn't state I was.

Yes I know, that's exactly what i've been doing for the past few months, I know the logistics of it all cherry. I don't quite get your last point? I'm quite aware were mostly a privileged country (even though there is a great deal of poverty). However I believe in the right that anyone should be able to move anywhere within certain guidelines, since when was exploring different parts of the world and escaping this some what depressing island being entitled as spoilt? Not aiming this at you here however like many Brexiters state "if you don't like it here then leave!"

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How many times has he said NO repeatedly to something then been forced to do it.

He CANNOT act like a Soviet Union leader and keep people who no longer want to be part of his brand of the UK, hostage.

If the support stays and/ rises further for independence he would lead us into an unknown constitutional crisis.
Which he could not probably control.

Plus,IF he dictates his own will against the wishes of a growing majority of Scots voters.
Then he'll lead things into the court arena again.

He can huff and puff all he likes, however in now LESS than 4 years time, he could or his successor be leading at best only a minority government.

He has no assured votes then to deny the demands of a majority of Scots.
Or those in N Ireland either.

He's just a man arista he's not a god!!!!!

Yep! with the local elections this May and SNP heading for a big win. I think after this COVID mess, the next struggle for this government will be Scottish independence if there's a overwhelming support for a vote he would have to give in.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

How many times has he said NO repeatedly to something then been forced to do it.

He CANNOT act like a Soviet Union leader and keep people who no longer want to be part of his brand of the UK, hostage.

If the support stays and/ rises further for independence he would lead us into an unknown constitutional crisis.
Which he could not probably control.

Plus,IF he dictates his own will against the wishes of a growing majority of Scots voters.
Then he'll lead things into the court arena again.

He can huff and puff all he likes, however in now LESS than 4 years time, he could or his successor be leading at best only a minority government.

He has no assured votes then to deny the demands of a majority of Scots.
Or those in N Ireland either.

He's just a man arista he's not a god!!!!!

No he is not a Russian Leader
but he can still say NO

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

No he is not a Russian Leader
but he can still say NO

He would be acting like one IF and it's a big IF, he dared to deny Scotland a referendum following a strong SNP election and constant or rising public opinion for one AND Independence.

If he got away with denying that in those circumstances, he would beyond doubt be acting like a Soviet leader.
By holding another Nation and its people hostage.

You credit him with integrity as to his word.
I don't, because he has none!!
Certainly not politically.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

He would be acting like one IF and it's a big IF, he dared to deny Scotland a referendum following a strong SNP election and constant or rising public opinion for one AND Independence.

If he got away with denying that in those circumstances, he would beyond doubt be acting like a Soviet leader.
By holding another Nation and its people hostage.

You credit him with integrity as to his word.
I don't, because he has none!!
Certainly not politically.

I ain't seen any planes flying over the border like Putin's reaction to Ukraine.