[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

So who investigates the EU abuse?

It's irrelevant for reasons I've stated in the last post that you chose to ignore (and probably didn't read, given how you just proved what I was saying right).

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's irrelevant for reasons I've stated in the last post that you chose to ignore (and probably didn't read, given how you just proved what I was saying right).

It's ok if you can't answer. You can just say.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's irrelevant for reasons I've stated in the last post that you chose to ignore (and probably didn't read, given how you just proved what I was saying right).

Your idea of 'proof' leaves a lot to be desired. Stating something as fact does not make it so. Simply opinion and supposition, nothing more however much you try to convince others otherwise.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

And none of that changes the fact that our government are under investigation for Human Rights abuse against disabled people.

The act of trying to distract somebody from focusing on something bad by saying 'that thing over there is also bad so that somehow vindicates this bad thing for some reason!' is foolishness.

Most of the Tory government were remainers, including Osborne and Cameron, so don't understand how your hypothesis that the government wanted a Brexit works.

Also if the government are being investigated for human rights abuse and you offer this up as a reason why they can't be trusted then why should we be more concerned about that than the hypocrisy of the EU who are supposed to be the experts on human rights. I think is it very relevant. Why would we want to be in the EU based on that? Supporters of human rights only when it suits it seems. No thanks.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Most of the Tory government were remainers, including Osborne and Cameron, so don't understand how your hypothesis that the government wanted a Brexit works.

Also if the government are being investigated for human rights abuse and you offer this up as a reason why they can't be trusted then why should we be more concerned about that than the hypocrisy of the EU who are supposed to be the experts on human rights. I think is it very relevant. Why would we want to be in the EU based on that? Supporters of human rights only when it suits it seems. No thanks.

Most of the politicians that were in the Leaver camp have jumped ship now that it's come to pass. Allignments and Alliances in politics are rarely set in stone. Most of the government were on the remain side of things so, if they really WANTED to remain it would have been easy to whip the votes to stop Brexit when it went to the floor recently but it still went through. That's telling in itself.

The conversation is about the UK's Human Rights abuse and the EU investigation, Greece is a separate issue that has little to nothing to do with it and mentioning doesn't change the facts of the UK case, it's just an attempt to muddy a debate that you can't win.

You can talk about Greece until you are blue in the face but it won't change the facts about the EU investigation into the UK's human rights abuse.

I've only spoken about the EU investigation into the UK, I'm not saying that the EU is perfect (I don't speak in absolutes) only that your argument doesn't change the facts which is true. Your unsubtle attempt to paint me as a hypocrite in your last sentence has fell on it's arse because you've misunderstood what I've been saying.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Most of the politicians that were in the Leaver camp have jumped ship now that it's come to pass. Allignments and Alliances in politics are rarely set in stone. Most of the government were on the remain side of things so, if they really WANTED to remain it would have been easy to whip the votes to stop Brexit when it went to the floor recently but it still went through. That's telling in itself.

The conversation is about the UK's Human Rights abuse and the EU investigation, Greece is a separate issue that has little to nothing to do with it and mentioning doesn't change the facts of the UK case, it's just an attempt to muddy a debate that you can't win.

You can talk about Greece until you are blue in the face but it won't change the facts about the EU investigation into the UK's human rights abuse.

I've only spoken about the EU investigation into the UK, I'm not saying that the EU is perfect (I don't speak in absolutes) only that your argument doesn't change the facts which is true. Your unsubtle attempt to paint me as a hypocrite in your last sentence has fell on it's arse because you've misunderstood what I've been saying.

For the record, That very last sentence of my post you quoted was not about you but about the EU if that's what you mean by 'attempting to paint you as a hypocrite'. It was not aimed at you.

Other than Farage what other leavers have jumped ship - as I am unaware of who you mean?

Personally I don't agree that the Greece issue is irrelevant. It may not have been directly related to your points but was relevant to the general discussion as it pointed out the hypocrisy of the EU.

[smudgie]

Any long term forecasts should be taken with a pinch of salt, either good or bad.
The economy will go up and down whatever we do.

[Kizzy]

The NHS has been deemed to be a 'humanitarian crisis' if that's not an indicator of a failing on a monumental scale I don't know what is.
The one pledge that the UK got behind for brexit is that it would be safe, and it isn't... they lied.

You would think that would make millions very angry... but it hasn't, personally I don't understand that. Is the failure to act on their promises being excused? Are out voters too embarrassed to admit they were duped? Don't they care anymore?... :/

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The NHS has been deemed to be a 'humanitarian crisis' if that's not an indicator of a failing on a monumental scale I don't know what is.
The one pledge that the UK got behind for brexit is that it would be safe, and it isn't... they lied.

You would think that would make millions very angry... but it hasn't, personally I don't understand that. Is the failure to act on their promises being excused? Are out voters too embarrassed to admit they were duped? Don't they care anymore?... :/

NHS disagrees.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-uk-hospitals/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38538637

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jaxie

NHS disagrees.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-uk-hospitals/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38538637

Chair of the health select committee, Sarah Wollaston MP, said: "There is a crisis in social care provision but the term 'humanitarian crisis' is too strong.

Not really disagreeing is it?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not really disagreeing is it?

Well yeah the statement was a humanitarian disaster and two articles say the NHS disagree. You're quoting one political source but that doesn't mean the NHS don't disagree. I can only pass on the information, if you have a problem with the content or any conflicting comments in it, take it up with the author.

The NHS is expensive to run, it always has been.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Well yeah the statement was a humanitarian disaster and two articles say the NHS disagree. You're quoting one political source but that doesn't mean the NHS don't disagree. I can only pass on the information, if you have a problem with the content or any conflicting comments in it, take it up with the author.

The NHS is expensive to run, it always has been.

The NHS was in profit until quite recently when profit generating portions were sold off.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

NHS disagrees.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-uk-hospitals/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38538637

The chair of the health select committee Sarah wollaston is not the NHS.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The chair of the health select committee Sarah wollaston is not the NHS.

I quoted the news I'd recently seen. I didn't write it or choose who to quote. How you interpret it is your choice.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I quoted the news I'd recently seen. I didn't write it or choose who to quote. How you interpret it is your choice.

You were the one who took the headline at face value, it has nothing to do with interpretation, one conservative MP is not the NHS.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The NHS has been deemed to be a 'humanitarian crisis' if that's not an indicator of a failing on a monumental scale I don't know what is.
The one pledge that the UK got behind for brexit is that it would be safe, and it isn't... they lied.

You would think that would make millions very angry... but it hasn't, personally I don't understand that. Is the failure to act on their promises being excused? Are out voters too embarrassed to admit they were duped? Don't they care anymore?... :/

We are is this crisis because of immigration and too many taking out of it and not enough putting in. Vast amounts of Money is also being wasted on non-essential services such as interpreters for people who make no effort to learn the language of the country they are living in. You support unlimited immigration so what do you expect. Consequences.

Why would voters be embarrassed as Brexit has not yet occurred and we are still paying millions to the EU. People who, like you, don't want Brexit also keep interfering in the Brexit process in an attempt to stop it or water it down to such a degree that Brexit won't even be the Brexit people voted for which has of course delayed the process even further. Maybe you should look closer to home with your finger pointing.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We are is this crisis because of immigration and too many taking out of it and not enough putting in. Vast amounts of Money is also being wasted on non-essential services such as interpreters for people who make no effort to learn the language of the country they are living in. You support unlimited immigration so what do you expect. Consequences.

Why would voters be embarrassed as Brexit has not yet occurred and we are still paying millions to the EU. People who, like you, don't want Brexit also keep interfering in the Brexit process in an attempt to stop it or water it down to such a degree that Brexit won't even be the Brexit people voted for which has of course delayed the process even further. Maybe you should look closer to home with your finger pointing.

What have I done to interfere in the brexit process?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We are is this crisis because of immigration and too many taking out of it and not enough putting in. Vast amounts of Money is also being wasted on non-essential services such as interpreters for people who make no effort to learn the language of the country they are living in. You support unlimited immigration so what do you expect. Consequences.

Why would voters be embarrassed as Brexit has not yet occurred and we are still paying millions to the EU. People who, like you, don't want Brexit also keep interfering in the Brexit process in an attempt to stop it or water it down to such a degree that Brexit won't even be the Brexit people voted for which has of course delayed the process even further. Maybe you should look closer to home with your finger pointing.

What was the brexit people voted for, what is being watered down?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We are is this crisis because of immigration and too many taking out of it and not enough putting in.

Migrants put in more than they take out

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Vast amounts of Money is also being wasted on non-essential services such as interpreters for people who make no effort to learn the language of the country they are living in. You support unlimited immigration so what do you expect. Consequences.

Why would any less be spent post-brexit, you give off the impression that you think brexit means no, or less immigration? It does not? Lol. I think its time to google what you voted for.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why would voters be embarrassed as Brexit has not yet occurred and we are still paying millions to the EU.

Looking likely that we're gonna be paying in to them forever regardless, and receive less benefits in doing so

Originally Posted by Brillopad

People who, like you, don't want Brexit also keep interfering in the Brexit process in an attempt to stop it or water it down to such a degree that Brexit won't even be the Brexit people voted for which has of course delayed the process even further.

Because barely any politicians who voted leave or remain wants any part of the process, if leavers keep stepping down, remainers have to pick up their mess, because someone bloody has to. If we left it to leavers to get us out, literally nothing would have happened yet.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe you should look closer to home with your finger pointing.

Not yet, I'm treating brexit as guilty until proven innocent, I will happily eat my words in March if the remainers pull it out of the bag and make a great brexit deal for us.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Migrants put in more than they take out


Why would any less be spent post-brexit, you give off the impression that you think brexit means no, or less immigration? It does not? Lol. I think its time to google what you voted for.


Looking likely that we're gonna be paying in to them forever regardless, and receive less benefits in doing so


Because barely any politicians who voted leave or remain wants any part of the process, if leavers keep stepping down, remainers have to pick up their mess, because someone bloody has to. If we left it to leavers to get us out, literally nothing would have happened yet.


Not yet, I'm treating brexit as guilty until proven innocent, I will happily eat my words in March if the remainers pull it out of the bag and make a great brexit deal for us.

Brexit will mean taking some control over our borders and not letting in people with nothing to offer our coutry, those that just take. Sore losers need to keep out of it whilst those in control of getting the best deal get on with it. If they can't get the deal they want then it should just be a hard Brexit, that's what people voted for not all this hesitation and delaying tactics.

So far we have not seen the disaster predicted by the doom and gloom remainers and many who made such predictions are now eating their words. Britain is a strong country - we don't need the EU, it's a mess anyway. Other countries will probably do the same as Britain as there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with the EU all round. We are just the first country brave enough to make the first move.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Brexit will mean taking some control over our borders and not letting in people with nothing to offer our coutry, those that just take. Sore losers need to keep out of it whilst those in control of getting the best deal get on with it. If they can't get the deal they want then it should just be a hard Brexit, that's what people voted for not all this hesitation and delaying tactics.

So far we have not seen the disaster predicted by the doom and gloom remainers and many who made such predictions are now eating their words. Britain is a strong country - we don't need the EU, it's a mess anyway. Other countries will probably do the same as Britain as there seems to be a lot of dissatisfaction with the EU all round. We are just the first country brave enough to make the first move.

Sore losers are doing the jobs that the bad winners have stepped down from / are incapable of doing. Your other points are wishywashy repitition that I dont feel the need to expand on much

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We are is this crisis because of immigration and too many taking out of it and not enough putting in. Vast amounts of Money is also being wasted on non-essential services such as interpreters for people who make no effort to learn the language of the country they are living in. You support unlimited immigration so what do you expect. Consequences.

Why would voters be embarrassed as Brexit has not yet occurred and we are still paying millions to the EU. People who, like you, don't want Brexit also keep interfering in the Brexit process in an attempt to stop it or water it down to such a degree that Brexit won't even be the Brexit people voted for which has of course delayed the process even further. Maybe you should look closer to home with your finger pointing.

Good grief man, where the hell do you get this sort of information from?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well well....




The Bank had issued dire warnings against a vote to leave the European Union, with governor Mark Carney even saying the country could slip into recession.

Instead, the FTSE 100 closed on a record high for the sixth consecutive time on Thursday, the same day figures were released suggesting Britain was the fastest-growing of the advanced economies last year, with the services sector hitting a 17-month high.

BoE chief economist Andy Haldane said criticism of economists for failing to predict the financial crisis and the impact of the Brexit vote were a "fair cop", adding that the economics profession was "to some degree in crisis".

http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/boe-chi...t-criticism-w/

------------------

In other words they got it spectacularly wrong with their doom-mongering and i think our Nigel may well have called that one as well..

The service industry... Like servants and such? Who would have ever thought we'd need more of those? :/

The economics profession isn't in crisis, the fact that the govt makes up it's own stats means they are no longer required unless they toe the party line on anything, including brexit.

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

I listened to this for 5 minuets and in that time farage explains his first meeting as an MEP he states that it was his intention at that time to break up the EU, he suggests that it should be the duty of ambassadors to bend to the will of government as a soldier would.... but this was in 1999 :/

[Kizzy]

The whole reason we are briexitting is to remove ourselves from under the EU law umbrella... That way this govt can do what it likes with everyone, as in any marginalised group, including the disabled.