[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Do they though or in some cases are their husbands dictating?

No doubt that is one reason. The other is indoctrination. The percentage of women doing so due to 'freedom of choice' is questionable.

As we have witnessed very recently some Muslim women also hold extremist views and the tiny minority who do actually 'choose' to should not have their 'rights' superseed the equality laws of the country they choose to live in.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

On the 2nd of January this year was a day of global solidarity for the Muslim headscarf. The message was, "I have the freedom to wear what I want"

Why would any woman want to wear a garment that represents female subjugation? That is not how most Western women today want Western women or men to think. I think that the fact that so many Muslim women still do speaks volumes and is not a way of thinking that should be encouraged in the West.

What about integration and mutual respect? It is disrespectful to Western women who believe in gender equality. Why should a minority's freedoms override those of the majority?

I find the whole thing extremely manipulative.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why would any woman want to wear a garment that represents female subjugation? That is not how most Western women today want Western women or men to think. I think that the fact that so many Muslim women still do speaks volumes and is not a way of thinking that should be encouraged in the West.

What about integration and mutual respect? It is disrespectful to Western women who believe in gender equality. Why should a minority's freedoms override those of the majority?

I find the whole thing extremely manipulative.

Stop it with the subjugation. Of course some family members insist on their women folks covering but the majority of these women just consider themselves true to their faith. Its no different to a Sikh being brought up never to cut his hair and wear a turban when out or Orthodox Christians, Catholic nuns or Orthodox men wearing their religious garb. Are Orthodox Jewish boys subjugated because they wear head covering. Are married Orthodox Jewish women subjugated because under the eyes of God they should cover their hair when out (normally a wig). You can't say Muslim women are subjugated without putting all these people in the same category.

Edited to add. Its the same for indoctrination.

[user104658]

"if this real and rampant Islamaphobia continues, there will come a day where we must ask all women to wear a headscarf – all – out of solidarity to those who do it for religious reasons."

Ask. ASK. Not force. He is talking about ASKING women to VOLUNTARILY wear a headscarf out of solidarity with women who do so for religious reasons, if there comes a day when they are to be "banned". He is not talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Because he also specifically says;

"It is every woman’s right to always dress how she wants, that is my opinion on the matter,” he told an audience of school pupils."


A valiant effort to twist something into fearful propaganda though Brillo. Shame that DR ruined it for you by actually linking to the source material you cherry picked out of context comments from.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"if this real and rampant Islamaphobia continues, there will come a day where we must ask all women to wear a headscarf – all – out of solidarity to those who do it for religious reasons."

Ask. ASK. Not force. He is talking about ASKING women to VOLUNTARILY wear a headscarf out of solidarity with women who do so for religious reasons, if there comes a day when they are to be "banned". He is not talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Because he also specifically says;

"It is every woman’s right to always dress how she wants, that is my opinion on the matter,” he told an audience of school pupils."


A valiant effort to twist something into fearful propaganda though Brillo. Shame that DR ruined it for you by actually linking to the source material you cherry picked out of context comments from.

Calm down and drink tea,Why should he even be asking us? or suggesting it,people moan about religion yet want us to all do it 'their religion'
maybe we should all don a crown of thorns in solidarity for the Christian religion,it's every womans right to dress how she wants,so why does he need to even ask such a question?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Calm down and drink tea,Why should he even be asking us? or suggesting it,people moan about religion yet want us to all do it 'their religion'
maybe we should all don a crown of thorns in solidarity for the Christian religion,it's every womans right to dress how she wants,so why does he need to even ask such a question?

Absolutely

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Calm down and drink tea,Why should he even be asking us? or suggesting it,people moan about religion yet want us to all do it 'their religion'
maybe we should all don a crown of thorns in solidarity for the Christian religion,it's every womans right to dress how she wants,so why does he need to even ask such a question?

He's saying that IF there is a drive to BAN the headscarf for Muslim women, all others who believe as he does that people should be able to wear whatever they want, should IN SOLIDARITY, IF THEY WANT TO, defy the ban and wear a headscarf as a protest.

Jesus Christ did this forum make it past primary school critical reading level?

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

He's saying that IF there is a drive to BAN the headscarf for Muslim women, all others who believe as he does that people should be able to wear whatever they want, should IN SOLIDARITY, IF THEY WANT TO, defy the ban and wear a headscarf as a protest.

Jesus Christ did this forum make it past primary school critical reading level?

What has Jesus Christ got to do with this ? so it's alright for you to insult the Christian religion by being blaspheming but we dare not mention anything to do with a muslim woman's clothes and what we should do ?without you insinuating people are ill educated,IF he believes we should all be wearing what we want to,there was no need for his silly comment was there ?carry on with your thinly veiled insults it's to be expected.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

What has Jesus Christ got to do with this ? so it's alright for you to insult the Christian religion by being blaspheming but we dare not mention anything to do with a muslim woman's clothes and what we should do ?without you insinuating people are ill educated,IF he believes we should all be wearing what we want to,there was no need for his silly comment was there ?carry on with your thinly veiled insults it's to be expected.

It's alright to say what you want - like I said in another post, I am openly anti religion, equal opportunities all religions the same - but "blaspheming" is completely different to banning, or controlling, what people can and can't wear. I think organised religion is superstitious nonsense but I will also defend anyone's right to believe in whatever superstitious nonsense they feel like believing in.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"if this real and rampant Islamaphobia continues, there will come a day where we must ask all women to wear a headscarf – all – out of solidarity to those who do it for religious reasons."

Ask. ASK. Not force. He is talking about ASKING women to VOLUNTARILY wear a headscarf out of solidarity with women who do so for religious reasons, if there comes a day when they are to be "banned". He is not talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Because he also specifically says;

"It is every woman’s right to always dress how she wants, that is my opinion on the matter,” he told an audience of school pupils."


A valiant effort to twist something into fearful propaganda though Brillo. Shame that DR ruined it for you by actually linking to the source material you cherry picked out of context comments from.

Such a 'suggestion' is pretty OTT - so how long before some attempt to make it more than that. That is the point. Are women's rights going to be superseeded by religious doctrine?

I can assure you I wanted to post the link but couldn't, so DR did me a favour - I could hardly type the whole thing could I. But I did quote his own words. So a valiant effort to imply I was being 'selective' with my post.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Such a 'suggestion' is pretty OTT - so how long before some attempt to make it more than that. That is the point. Are women's rights going to be superseeded by religious doctrine?

I can assure you I wanted to post the link but couldn't, so DR did me a favour - I could hardly type the whole thing could I. But I did quote his own words. So a valiant effort to imply I was being 'selective' with my post.

You were being selective because he also quite clearly stated that he believes it is everyone's right to wear whatever they want - which you conveniently chose to ignore to fit your own, paranoid, version of the story.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You were being selective because he also quite clearly stated that he believes it is everyone's right to wear whatever they want - which you conveniently chose to ignore to fit your own, paranoid, version of the story.

He did which is very contradictory when supporting the choice to wear garments that attempt to undermine female equality. It is clearly at odds with the majority view in the West.

No thought to the message that would give and the long-term impact that could have on female equality has been given. Who knows maybe he is just sexist underneath all that rhetoric.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"if this real and rampant Islamaphobia continues, there will come a day where we must ask all women to wear a headscarf – all – out of solidarity to those who do it for religious reasons."

Ask. ASK. Not force. He is talking about ASKING women to VOLUNTARILY wear a headscarf out of solidarity with women who do so for religious reasons, if there comes a day when they are to be "banned". He is not talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Because he also specifically says;

"It is every woman’s right to always dress how she wants, that is my opinion on the matter,” he told an audience of school pupils."


A valiant effort to twist something into fearful propaganda though Brillo. Shame that DR ruined it for you by actually linking to the source material you cherry picked out of context comments from.

Tthis is what i meant.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"if this real and rampant Islamaphobia continues, there will come a day where we must ask all women to wear a headscarf – all – out of solidarity to those who do it for religious reasons."

Ask. ASK. Not force. He is talking about ASKING women to VOLUNTARILY wear a headscarf out of solidarity with women who do so for religious reasons, if there comes a day when they are to be "banned". He is not talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Because he also specifically says;

"It is every woman’s right to always dress how she wants, that is my opinion on the matter,” he told an audience of school pupils."


A valiant effort to twist something into fearful propaganda though Brillo. Shame that DR ruined it for you by actually linking to the source material you cherry picked out of context comments from.

but why ASK them to. Why are muslims always mollycoddled and treat as superior people. Why is it ok for us to be offended but we must not offend them? This country bows down to Muslims enough, we go out of our way to make them happy but if we are unhappy and say something against them we get shot down.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

but why ASK them to. Why are muslims always mollycoddled and treat as superior people. Why is it ok for us to be offended but we must not offend them? This country bows down to Muslims enough, we go out of our way to make them happy but if we are unhappy and say something against them we get shot down.

They're not treated as superior, they're being demonised and he's asking for them to be treated as equals/fellow human beings.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

They're not treated as superior, they're being demonised and he's asking for them to be treated as equals/fellow human beings.

As I see it they are treated as superior. It wouldn't surprise me if many muslims, especially women wish that PC brigade wouldnt make such an issue of the muslim people because it is this that is causing bad feeling. I have nothing against muslim people just the fact that we must not offend muslims is thrown down our throats. We are walking on eggshells the whole time for fear of offending. Everyone at some time in their life has been offended, we just have to get over it and stop crying about it.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Tozzie

We are walking on eggshells the whole time for fear of offending.

Could have fooled me

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

They're not treated as superior, they're being demonised and he's asking for them to be treated as equals/fellow human beings.

If Muslims can't have the decency to respect the values of the country they CHOOSE to live in they deserve no respect back.

The women don't see themselves as equals apparently, and they are trying to tar the rest of us with the same brush. That is the problem. If they don't want to be equal, fine, just don't expect Western women to accept the same or prioritise their feelings.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If Muslims can't have the decency to respect the values of the country they CHOOSE to live in they deserve no respect back.

The women don't see themselves as equals apparently, and they are trying to tar the rest of us with the same brush. That is the problem. If they don't want to be equal, fine, just don't expect Western women to accept the same or prioritise their feelings.

Well there you are generalizing a few arseholes as a whole group of people and highlighting the problem.

I suppose all Scousers are thieves too?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If Muslims can't have the decency to respect the values of the country they CHOOSE to live in they deserve no respect back.

The women don't see themselves as equals apparently, and they are trying to tar the rest of us with the same brush. That is the problem. If they don't want to be equal, fine, just don't expect Western women to accept the same or prioritise their feelings.

Does anti-Semitism, ethnic cleansing and white supremacy disgust you? Do you ever consider that its attitudes like yours that leads us towards those things? Do you not understand that when you use words like “us Western women” you have to include Muslims who are Westerners in that argument.

You need to stop hyper-valuing what you believe to be your race and your values because it comes across as a horrible attitude. There’s nothing wrong with national pride as long as that national pride doesn’t lead to being myopic and de-valuing others.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Also many muslim women get viciously manipulated that if they dont wear burka/hijab they will go to hell or that they are filthy. I was in a fairly liberal family and i didnt know about atheism or that any other beliefs other than Islam/Christianity till i was 14 years old. You cant talk about decisions when you are not given information about other things.

[Withano]

PC gone mad when you cant even ask people if they would want to volunteer to wear something under a hypothetical scenario without them getting all upset about it

who is the most unique of all snowflakes is the real debate here

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

PC gone mad when you cant even ask people if they would want to volunteer to wear something under a hypothetical scenario without them getting all upset about it

who is the most unique of all snowflakes is the real debate here

Why suggest 'all' then as that was clearly never going to happen voluntarily. Even a left wing politician should understand that.

As I have said before if you are, as usual, going to resort to insults then you clearly have nothing worth listening to.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Why suggest 'all' then as that was clearly never going to happen voluntarily. Even a left wing politician should understand that.

As I have said before if you are, as usual, going to resort to insults then you clearly have nothing worth listening to.

All will be asked if they would like to volunteer (in this, still, hypothetical situation) you got a little mad over nothing here

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Withano

All will be asked if they would like to volunteer (in this, still, hypothetical situation) you got a little mad over nothing here

The only 'mad' ones I see on here are the ones driven to insult people with a different opinion,now THAT is losing a debate.