[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Adam.

I believe only rape victims should get abortions anyway

Maybe not just rape, things like risk of life-affecting conditions, death for either the mother or child, or incest.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Maybe not just rape, things like risk of life-affecting conditions, death for either the mother or child, or incest.

That is already a different law i think?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

I believe only rape victims should get abortions anyway

It's a good thing you'll never know power then isn't it? Such a clause is plain silly, what would be your suggestion for all the children that would likely find their way into the system because their parents aren't ready to be parents or are incapable of doing so due to various circumstances? What about unfit parents that would keep the child? If you get rid of abortion then the system will become flooded and cases of abuse and neglect would likely skyrocket.

The idea of illegalising abortion is barbaric and short sighted.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a good thing you'll never know power then isn't it? Such a clause is plain silly, what would be your suggestion for all the children that would likely find their way into the system because their parents aren't ready to be parents or are incapable of doing so due to various circumstances? What about unfit parents that would keep the child? If you get rid of abortion then the system will become flooded and cases of abuse and neglect would likely skyrocket.

The idea of illegalising abortion is barbaric and short sighted.

If you dont want a child use contraception or dont have sex simply

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Adam.

If you dont want a child use contraception or dont have sex simply

Good solutions there, when are you running for office?

Contraception is not 100% safe and the idea of people not having sex to appease a man who wants to remove the option of choice away from women is just plain silly.

The abortion laws are not broken, stop trying to fix them.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Good solutions there, when are you running for office?

Contraception is not 100% safe and the idea of people not having sex to appease a man who wants to remove the option of choice away from women is just plain silly.

The abortion laws are not broken, stop trying to fix them.

There is also a morning after pill.

Abortions are use as a way to not have safe sex because the nhs will help you get rid of the child anyway.

Unless its a better reason then i dont want a child they should not be entitled to one

[smudgie]

Aborting a baby at 24 weeks should only be allowed if there is a danger to the mother, or something seriously wrong with baby.
How anybody could consider it is ok killing a fully formed baby is just barbaric to me.
I am not anti abortion, I feel it's every woman's right to decide if she wants a baby or not, but surely they can make that decision at an earlier stage of the pregnancy.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Aborting a baby at 24 weeks should only be allowed if there is a danger to the mother, or something seriously wrong with baby.
How anybody could consider it is ok killing a fully formed baby is just barbaric to me.
I am not anti abortion, I feel it's every woman's right to decide if she wants a baby or not, but surely they can make that decision at an earlier stage of the pregnancy.

Totally agree smudgie and I have first hand experience of a baby born at 24 weeks.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Totally agree smudgie and I have first hand experience of a baby born at 24 weeks.

Yeah I agree with that point.

[Kazanne]

What is the deadline for abortions now? my friend had a little boy at 24 weeks,NONE of us thought he would survive,he was so tiny,I cried when I saw him,but against the odds he pulled through,he has a little trouble walking but otherwise he is fine,he is now a strapping 9 year old,so maybe it's never a bad thing to have it reviewed.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

What is the deadline for abortions now? my friend had a little boy at 24 weeks,NONE of us thought he would survive,he was so tiny,I cried when I saw him,but against the odds he pulled through,he has a little trouble walking but otherwise he is fine,he is now a strapping 9 year old,so maybe it's never a bad thing to have it reviewed.

Like Dezzy says, abortions at that point in time are only really done for medical reasons.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

What is the deadline for abortions now? my friend had a little boy at 24 weeks,NONE of us thought he would survive,he was so tiny,I cried when I saw him,but against the odds he pulled through,he has a little trouble walking but otherwise he is fine,he is now a strapping 9 year old,so maybe it's never a bad thing to have it reviewed.

24 weeks I believe but, like I said before, they are only offered that late in the game unless it's for medical purposes. The vast majority of abortions take place before 12 weeks if I remember right.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

What is the deadline for abortions now? my friend had a little boy at 24 weeks,NONE of us thought he would survive,he was so tiny,I cried when I saw him,but against the odds he pulled through,he has a little trouble walking but otherwise he is fine,he is now a strapping 9 year old,so maybe it's never a bad thing to have it reviewed.

My niece and her baby were put on life support when she had her baby girl.
She lost a baby boy at 24 weeks the year before, he only lived 6 hours.
Fortunately they managed to save mother and baby, baby had a few problems to start with, but she was out of hospital by the time her actual due date.
She is now an award winning dancer and the smiliest happiest kid ever.
Had she been born before the 24 weeks there is a chance she would not have been given any help in her chance of survival.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by smudgie

My niece and her baby were put on life support when she had her baby girl.
She lost a baby boy at 24 weeks the year before, he only lived 6 hours.
Fortunately they managed to save mother and baby, baby had a few problems to start with, but she was out of hospital by the time her actual due date.
She is now an award winning dancer and the smiliest happiest kid ever.
Had she been born before the 24 weeks there is a chance she would not have been given any help in her chance of survival.

I am so pleased she is good now smudgie,miracles do happen

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I am so pleased she is good now smudgie,miracles do happen

Indeed.
Unfortunately my niece had to have a sterilisation as she was told she would probably not survive another pregnancy, but she has two lovely girls so she is lucky really.

[user104658]

The problem is that there's a common misperception surrounding the "up to 24 weeks" issue... people think that there's a uniform distribution up to that point which just isn't true. Late stage abortions ARE a moral grey area, however, the facts are:

- 80% of abortions are before 10 weeks.

- 91% are first trimester (before 13 weeks)

- 99% are before 16 weeks


An already very very small number of abortions take place after 16 weeks, and after 20 weeks is almost never anyway. There really isn't actually any practical problem in real terms. It's just a moral foot-stomping area in politics... getting outraged about "swathes" of late stage abortions - something that isn't actually happening.

[sungrass]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The problem is that there's a common misperception surrounding the "up to 24 weeks" issue... people think that there's a uniform distribution up to that point which just isn't true. Late stage abortions ARE a moral grey area, however, the facts are:

- 80% of abortions are before 10 weeks.

- 91% are first trimester (before 13 weeks)

- 99% are before 16 weeks


An already very very small number of abortions take place after 16 weeks, and after 20 weeks is almost never anyway. There really isn't actually any practical problem in real terms. It's just a moral foot-stomping area in politics... getting outraged about "swathes" of late stage abortions - something that isn't actually happening.

Yes it only happens if the mother hasn't been going for regular scans and then when she does because she is really showing - they pick up fatal fetal abnormality's - its not something someone decides to do at that point. Its a medical emergency.

[Kazanne]

I do agree with a womans right to chose,plus medical and rape reasons,but I do know that abortion is also used as a form of contraception which in my view is wrong,but it happens.it's not as though there are not several preventions free or on the market.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I do agree with a womans right to chose,plus medical and rape reasons,but I do know that abortion is also used as a form of contraception which in my view is wrong,but it happens.it's not as though there are not several preventions free or on the market.

Maybe take it from the NHS for non medical reasons?

[AnnieK]

Lowering the legal limit is not a bad thing I'm as long as they don't try to abolish it completely. 24 weeks is far too late imo. They will always be allowed to do later term medical terminations but for "normal" terminations 24 weeks is far too advanced imo.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Lowering the legal limit is not a bad thing I'm as long as they don't try to abolish it completely. 24 weeks is far too late imo. They will always be allowed to do later term medical terminations but for "normal" terminations 24 weeks is far too advanced imo.

I'm all for choice but when it comes to a 24 week abortion, like you, I believe it should only be used for medical reasons or exceptional circumstances. My reasons are because most babies born between 22-23 weeks will not survive and if they do, most will be severely brain damaged. A pregnant woman who threatens labour at 23 weeks will receive a lot of resources to try and get her pregnancy to go that extra week because at 24 weeks the odds of survival without severe brain damage go up dramatically. I've never understood why its 24 weeks and not 22-23 weeks.

Another thing is, doctors and nurses involved in dilation and evacuation procedure used in late stage abortions often find it very traumatic and spend a lot of time struggling with their own conscience. Whilst they know its a necessary procedure most cases, they don't call it the 'dark side' of medicine for nothing.

[Vicky.]

There are a huge number of babies that survive when born really really early. Gavins son with someone else was born at 30 weeks. Which is not really that early but my god he was tiny. He weighed next to nothing and was see through and it was just heartbreaking. In the incubator thing next to him there was a baby that had been born at 23 weeks fighting for its life. It ended up dying but Gavin still talks about that baby now, it really touched him

Doctors do refuse to do 'choice' based abortions late on though. Tends to be only if the baby will have a severe disability or if the mothers life is at risk somehow.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

There are a huge number of babies that survive when born really really early. Gavins son with someone else was born at 30 weeks. Which is not really that early but my god he was tiny. He weighed next to nothing and was see through and it was just heartbreaking. In the incubator thing next to him there was a baby that had been born at 23 weeks fighting for its life. It ended up dying but Gavin still talks about that baby now, it really touched him

Doctors do refuse to do 'choice' based abortions late on though. Tends to be only if the baby will have a severe disability or if the mothers life is at risk somehow.

Sadly that isn't the case with some doctors and some private abortion clinics.
I know someone who had an abortion at 23 weeks + 5 days because she simply changed her mind. Knowing she may have a tough time getting a late abortion, she simply lied to the medical professional who interviewed her. She told them that she hadn't realized she was pregnant because she'd still been getting her periods (lies) and that she'd been drinking a lot of alcohol and cannabis (which she hadn't). She was two days within the deadline and they rushed her through to a specialist clinic to do the procedure.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

They can debate it all they want (although i dont think they will) it is a free country. The point is that a minority government doesnt have the capability to pass anything close to controversial, they would immediately face a vote of no confidence and be straight back to an election. Its only a matter of hours or weeks until a new election is called.

I fully expect the queens speech to be challenged to test the water. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we dont even get to a new session without having to go straight back to the people for another election.

what do you mean by this?

I am fairly happy with this government tbh if all her controversial stuff will be voted down. So she will be able to do...nothing that she wants. No more bashing the disabled...

So she can stay to sort out Brexit so that they cannot play on the lie that Labour ****ed it up (much like the lie that Labour caused the global recession ) to get themselves back in.

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Sadly that isn't the case with some doctors and some private abortion clinics.
I know someone who had an abortion at 23 weeks + 5 days because she simply changed her mind. Knowing she may have a tough time getting a late abortion, she simply lied to the medical professional who interviewed her. She told them that she hadn't realized she was pregnant because she'd still been getting her periods (lies) and that she'd been drinking a lot of alcohol and cannabis (which she hadn't). She was two days within the deadline and they rushed her through to a specialist clinic to do the procedure.

Hmm. I guess though, the doctors couldn't prove she was lying about it.

I'm not sure what should happen though, in cases where the mother genuinely does not realize until late on. Very very grey area for me :/ And of course, its hard to prove that people lie about it. Though there must have been something else going on than she just changed her mind. Noone in their right mind would chose to put themselves through that on a whim...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

what do you mean by this?

I am fairly happy with this government tbh if all her controversial stuff will be voted down. So she will be able to do...nothing that she wants. No more bashing the disabled...

So she can stay to sort out Brexit so that they cannot play on the lie that Labour ****ed it up (much like the lie that Labour caused the global recession ) to get themselves back in.



Hmm. I guess though, the doctors couldn't prove she was lying about it.

I'm not sure what should happen though, in cases where the mother genuinely does not realize until late on. Very very grey area for me :/

The legislation that the government propose to put through parliament has to be outlined in the queens speech and it is then voted on, on day 1 of the parliament.

This is why a party needs a majority to be able to do anything. So, if they remotely try to meddle with Northern Ireland, it will get kicked out immediately. They just can't do anything controversial.

What I am saying is that even without anything controversial in there, there could easily be enough pissed off tories to stop TM in her tracks there and then. Honestly, I don't see TM lasting a week, its just all posturing at the moment while the big boys decide who should be put forward to take over.

Democracy does work, and disaffected Tories will vote down their own party if they think its in the countries best interests. With the way May has handled brexit, I would imagine there is a large queue of them.