[Emilee]

Originally posted by L

I felt compelled to jump in here. One of my good friends SMC was banned permanently for doing a whole lot less than Sophie, Markus and Chrizzle have done recently.

I have asked for him to be un-banned countless times with no success. Now it seems that you have to do a whole lot more before you get permanently banned from TiBB.

Maybe that's why there's a lack of respect for the forum rules.

L, Why did you mention Sophie? its not just these members who cause trouble... and really wat have they done???

Its not like they've made the fourm a bad place... and some people are friends with these members. i dont think its right to voilate them by saying their names and basically saying:

"These people are the reason this forum isn't friendly anymore".

[Red Moon]

The questions I set are general questions and we shouldn't be talking about particular members at all in this thread. If this carries on the thread will be closed.

Red

[Emilee]

that didnt really answer my question...

[Emilee]

and i think it wasnt me who started using the names in this thread!!

[Red Moon]

I know it wasn't you Emilee.

I was just trying to say that there is no need for anyone to get personal in the thread. The questions I originally posed where not aimed at members at all but were based on observations of how the board has changed over the last 2 and a bit years.

There is no need for anyone to make the answers to the questions personal in any way, since this this could lead to more fights and arguments on the board which I'm sure we are all fed up with.

[Emilee]

Ok.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Z

I don't agree with it either, nodisharmony, but people have not learned to get on, this has been a longrunning problem which has lasted for, I'd estimate, coming up for a year. I'm not starting any arguments actually, I was referring to the forum as a whole. Surely you've seen lots of members being banned and the like? That never used to happen, in fact I clearly remember being shocked when guttridge was banned, now it seems to be the norm to get a warning. The thing is, relying on the Admins and Moderators is what they are there for, but they shouldn't be having to give people warnings and bans all the time. Things have to get worse before they can get better, I'm sure you know the quote I'm getting at (I can't remember it. You know, you have to hit rock bottom before you can get better.) I'm not saying the length of time somebody's been registered should matter either, but at the moment it does, everybody's going on about post counts and registration dates as a defense.

Dan: There's already a divide. People are sick and tired of eachother, nobody is going to suddenly start getting along because the parties involved are all decided on what they think of other users. It's not going to change; perhaps the atmosphere can be calmed but people are still going to dislike eachother.



"Would the other sides just post on their dislike for other members, the idea sounds like some little gang of kids going to their own treehouse where they can hide away from others and discuss things as they like, it's a forum for goodness sakes, people comment where they like and that's the great part of it."


Just to address this point separately, well, I'd fully expect those topics to be discouraged. Moderators can still control everywhere, it's just the regular members who can't access one board. I'm not quite sure what the problem is with that idea, it's not like anybody's exclusively being excluded, you can access one board but not the other. Makes logical sense to join the board where your friends are. And hopefully, as time passes, the grudges will fade.

I'm not quite sure what you want me to say about the treehouse comment, because that's exactly what it's meant to be like. Only nowhere near as sinister as you're making it sound. I agree, on a regular forum the great part of being a member is being able to post everywhere. But on this forum, far too many people despise eachother.



"I'd either learn to ignore those people who you find you cannot get a word in edgeways and find other topics to start and post in or just post where and when you want without bothering about some silly little groups. "



It's impossible not to be bothered, I was added into a conversation on MSN yesterday where I was effectively given 18 pages worth of abuse. I do not appreciate that kind of virtual "bullying" <-- I wasn't offended by it, I was offended that people feel that they can get away with it. MSN is outside of control, but it's not like I particularly want to get told I'm "full of myself" is it?

Thanks for replying to me, Z.

In answer to your big post:-

You say that "members are not learning to get on". That is certainly evident recently and many of us have observed that. That can't ever be changed I am afraid!! If a member has enemies or dislikes someone, then that is just the way things stand.

But there is a big difference between "Not getting on" & "Arguing and personal attacks". I must observe and certainly do state a "very true fact" here.

"It won't be tolerated"

I know it is quite obvious that arguments and personal attacks can have a very complex story behind them. Overlapping problems from another thread, being carried over and over until an explosion happens
______________________________________________
You say that "things have to get worse before they get better".

That is like "Smoke Alarms", when there is a small fire and you manage to put it all out, with very little damage. That is when you rush out and think about spending money on Fire - safety and prevention.

Well, there has been a "fire" here and many of those who do enjoy typing into the forum "Personal Attacks", are learning slowly, that "Zero tolerance" is in force
______________________________________________
Post counts are "neither-here-nor-there"

I noticed a rule by James, somewhere about that. Something about certain members trying to accumulate massive post-counts by loads & loads of one-liners.

It is more about the content of what you say, rather than the quantity of posts.
______________________________________________
Any member can post in any thread, whether they are a school kid or 16+ and beyond to "pension age" and even beyond that!!!

Young members are also great members. I don't ever discriminate about age or mentality or even bad spelling or lack of awareness or disability either.


But that's me
______________________________________________
MSN is good for some. I personally don't bother with it. I like posting on the forum or a nice and pleasant UTU.

If MSN is bothering you "Z", then change the e-mail or stick to this forum, TIBB
______________________________________________
This two-sides that is getting talked about constantly doesn't really apply to myself. I get on with members from both sides and a few I don't, but I live with that
______________________________________________
Regarding everything else, it is better to be optimistic and place all the problems that have been happening on here behind us.

It is in the past, until someone starts it off again.

It will happen, but I am making a concerted effort to peace-keep, but sadly, not many are listening yet!

But it will happen, if we all make it that way

and I personally intend to

This is a great forum and I love it here and I enjoy knowing other members and I admit that I hate two members, dislike about 4 or 5, and apart from that, I like many, many, many others that far out-ways the minority I don't get along with.

That is not bad considering, is it?





nodisharmony

[Emilee]

woah thats a big post

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Emilee
woah thats a big post

I can do that sometimes, Emilee.

Very big ones. But it has to be done, especially now, as it is getting a little heated and so much negativity has been placed on this forum.

I hope it gets better as soon as possible. Don't you?





nodisharmony

[lily.]

Originally posted by J.C.
To be blatant about it , and only speaking for myself ,I believe there is one member who has a major ageist agenda and there is one member who is just plain rude and provocative and who should know better.

Ok, I have to ask JC. And, feel free to u2u me your reply.

But, there has been a fair amount of behind the scenes discussion about that part of your post. Now, it seems to have been narrowed down to a few possible suspects.....

So, when you refer to the 2 people are you referring to:

a) Dan and myself?

or

b) Kizwiz and GiRTh?

or

c) None of the above.


You can ask the audience or phone a friend, but I'm afraid you can't take a 50/50 because there's only 3 possible answers.

I thank you in advance for your time.

PS. You don't have to answer that, but I did have to ask.

[J.C.]

^
L, That is a fair enough question , but where's the option that says `Run for the nearest bridge`lol

Seriously though, I certainly do not wish to start anything at all. I was speaking from the heart about something that does concern me, and only because I value this site greatly.. Let me firstly explain that I do not particularly consider myself to be anyone`s target for any type of abuse and it wouldn't really bother me even if I was. However I find it very hard to sit back and be a part of something which in my opinion far too often leaves a member being somewhat humiliated.I do feel there are only a handful of members who have a tendency to do this repetitively and perhaps it was not very discreet of me to put it down to two members, though that is how I see it. I don`t want to create any situation and I will send you an appropriate u2u msg later today to clarify what I`m saying.

[lily.]

Thanks JC. If I had put the 4th option in you could have taken a 50/50 LoL

I look forward to your U2U.

[Sunny_01]

Again just to get back to topic here it is important that people use this thread in the way Red intended it to be used. We in TIBB towers can use some of the suggestions to move things forward from the situation we are in right now.

[Ruth]

A lot of good posters don't post any more on this site, why?
I think it is because there is so much bickering on the site, and sometimes when people post perfectly reasonable things, other people become really nasty just because they don't share the same opinion. Insults start flying, people get heated, etc., etc.

Has the place changed so much it not the friendly place it once was?
Yes. When I joined, I used to post my opinion, safe in the knowledge that even if someone disagreed with me, they would generally say so in a civil way. These days, I know that if I post an opinion, some people are going to be rude about it.

Why have the members lost respect for each other?
I have no idea why it started. But I will say this much - if somebody cannot put forward an argument without resorting to calling names and being rude, it generally suggests that they don't really have a good point to make. That makes me lose respect for them.

Where did all the fun go?
It's in hiding in the same place as all the respect and good manners.

What happened to good debate?
You can still have a good debate on here. My comments are aimed at the minority, and there are still some great members here. It's just sometimes a perfectly reasonable and civil debate will get invaded by other people just being rude. Puts people off.

Where is the site where things weren't rammed down you throat and personal comments weren't made about members of groups of members?
This might upset some people, but I'm going to say it anyway. Naming no names, there are a very small pocket of people on here who name-call and make personal comments. Some of them post A LOT though (nothing wrong with posting a lot of course) and I think that makes it look like there are more of them than there really is.

Are we going to have house mates chosen as favorites by members and then not be allowed to discuss there negative traits?
Almost certainly, unfortunately. People seem to think that if they like someone, then that person can do absolutely nothing wrong. Housemates are only human like the rest of us. They have their good traits and their bad traits, but fans of them sometimes think that even if you make a valid point when that HM has done something wrong, then you are at fault. I don't want to cause a row, but the Paris Hilton thing is a case in point. Just because someone is a fan of Paris, does that mean that she can do no wrong?

Can the place be as exciting and alive as it was before or are we stuck with the site as it is now?
I'd like to think it can get back to how it was before, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Are new members going to be welcomed and respected by the old members or are they going to be shot down in flames and told where to go?
I hope new members will be made to feel very welcome.

Finally what does this say about the potential for a good discussion in Big Brother 8?
It says that if you don't like a particular housemate, and someone else does, you may get called rude names and be insulted every time you say something about them.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by J.C.
This is a thread that is long overdue. I think that is because it could only realistically be made by a moderator.
Please forgive me for making a general response rather than the ten questions specifically.
For a long time I have wondered why there are so many visitors to the site compared to the number of members who are logged on and posting. Now that I tend to be one of the majority who read rather than post I am beginning to understand why.
I joined this site a year ago and it is the only forum that I have ever posted in. The idea was to greatly enhance my Big Brother experience and hopefully communicate with some decent members of all ages that provide the incentive for fun communication between each BB series.
Unfortunately it has not worked out this way because like nearly everything else in this world it is being ruined by a tiny minority, and in this case I really am talking about just one or two wreckers.
To be blatant about it , and only speaking for myself ,I believe there is one member who has a major ageist agenda and there is one member who is just plain rude and provocative and who should know better.
I have on several occasions read a post and thought ` oh dear, that new member will be put off and not come back ` and its nearly always caused by the same member or two ,and on many occasions it does turn out that way.
Sorry to name members here, but Nodisharmony is the perfect example of a new member who was given the worst welcome I have ever seen. Although I did not agree with much stuff posted about Jade etc I totally respected his relentless posting which kind of made me laugh and cry at the same time, but he is unique in that he is about the only person in the world who would take this abuse and not leave when nearly everyone else would have. What was most revealing was the fact that those that hassled him were the ones who continuously responded to his posts !!! imo this site will only benefit from such a well mannered prolific poster, and yet he was so close to leaving, and so how many others have actually left ? I can certainly think of quite a few and feel I know exactly their reasons.
Arguments about rumors, the eye, celebrities etc are just ridiculous. Why can`t the younger creative members enjoy a bit of fun, its the BB logo for heaven`s sake, and no-one needs to look anyway.
I still love reading the posts and certainly no one is going to miss my posts but I really like 95% of the members and hope to get that posting feeling again when no.8 comes along. lol I remember watching the first night of BB1 and haven't missed much since.
May I make a couple of suggestions; First one is that members should post what they want within the rules and that if the thread is not taken up by more than say 2 OR 3 replies in 24 hours then it should be relegated to page 2 or to a sort of recycle bin.
Secondly it is a well known fact that a short term ban that can be repeated over and over is pointless and only designed to save members that have been around far too long. It should be 3 bans and out. The reality is that this site would start to grow even more rapidly , but more to the point it will consist of decent members who can be civil to one another.
Sorry if I embarrassed you Nodis but I so wanted to bring this up when you first joined , and by the way are you really Jade`s Dad ?

Come on everyone ,lets chill and enjoy what will be the best BB Yet!!

I have to make a comment about the highlighted bit. I do agree with your post J.C. Regarding nodis, I was one of the people who continually responded to him, and I admit that things got a little heated on both sides at times. However, although we disagreed about Jade (which was who most of the posts were about), I don't see anything wrong with lengthy debates. I am glad that nodis stuck around, and would hate to think that I had contributed in any way to anybody leaving. I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason why I responded so often to his posts is because it is a discussion forum, and we got into some lengthy discussions.

[GlitterEyes]

I think its also important not to dwell on things so much, things that have happened in the past need to stay there otherwise the forum will be going around in circles. The main thing is to look forward and work on ways that can stop things in future spiraling out of control. There are alot of great members here who CAN hold a decent debate without turning threads into slanging matches so I wouldn't say the forum is doomed completely lol

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by GlitterEyes
I think its also important not to dwell on things so much, things that have happened in the past need to stay there otherwise the forum will be going around in circles. The main thing is to look forward and work on ways that can stop things in future spiraling out of control. There are alot of great members here who CAN hold a decent debate without turning threads into slanging matches so I wouldn't say the forum is doomed completely lol

What a great post Glitter - I agree with everything that you say and I for one love this site and know that as long as these things are left in the past we can move forward as a great group of members

[MarkWaldorf]

Originally posted by Red Moon
The questions I set are general questions and we shouldn't be talking about particular members at all in this thread. If this carries on the thread will be closed.

Red

Then why was this posted in the wake of the weekends events???? Starting it after this will obviously draw questions.

[Z]

I think what Mark just posted there proves the point of the "lack of respect" argument (I'm not meaning to insult you, Mark) because it shouldn't draw questions. And it was posted in the wake of the weekend's events, I'd presume, because they happened. This topic wouldn't have been needed if this past weekend hadn't happened the way it did.

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Ruth

I have to make a comment about the highlighted bit. I do agree with your post J.C. Regarding nodis, I was one of the people who continually responded to him, and I admit that things got a little heated on both sides at times. However, although we disagreed about Jade (which was who most of the posts were about), I don't see anything wrong with lengthy debates. I am glad that nodis stuck around, and would hate to think that I had contributed in any way to anybody leaving. I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason why I responded so often to his posts is because it is a discussion forum, and we got into some lengthy discussions.

I am happy that you are glad that I stuck around Ruth.

I first thought, when I saw the bold writing, that I was about to be set upon, from past feelings from my early days on the forum, but I am glad that it has changed and you look upon me in a better light today.

My mistake, was, I should have UTU'd you, the second I saw you getting annoyed with me and we could have sorted it out amicablly. But there was a battleground then and Jade, Jo & Danielle was the topic of hatred, with only one sole angel about.

But he was relentless

But things moved on from there and today, it is a whole different problem which will work itself out, I'm sure



nodisharmony

[Ruth]

Nodis, I could have u2u'd you myself, and I wish I had. I honestly do respect people's opinions, whether or not I agree with them. I'm sorry for any offence caused, and hope that we can leave all that behind, and start afresh

[nodisharmony]

Originally posted by Ruth
Nodis, I could have u2u'd you myself, and I wish I had. I honestly do respect people's opinions, whether or not I agree with them. I'm sorry for any offence caused, and hope that we can leave all that behind, and start afresh

I think that's a great idea

I always prefer to get along, "rather than the opposite."

If more members UTU'd each other, the moment they feel that they were offended, it could solve a lot of problems?

But those who can now understand this, it will be a great friendly future

But for those who choose to live in the world of "disharmony" (Who knows?)




nodisharmony

[GiRTh]

A lot of good posters don't post any more on this site, why?
The site has changed and people move on.

Has the place changed so much it not the friendly place it once was?
I joined in january and the site's not as friendly as it was back then.

Why have the members lost respect for each other?
I think, in some cases, there was never any respect in the first place. There are certain forum members who simply want to post on their own and all other members should sit in the corner and never bother them

Where did all the fun go?
Certain forum members ego's got the better of them and when they all gang up, they can be quite a hand full.

What happened to good debate?
There is still good debate but not in certain threads. I'm talking mainly of the threads devoted to certain forum members fawning admiration for untalented celebrities. Post anything negative in those threads and all hell breaks loose.

Where is the site where things weren't rammed down you throat and personal comments weren't made about members of groups of members?
Some people will always put there point of view across in a forthright manner. The problem is that certain forum members cannot do this without resorting to foul mouthed tirades against other forum members.

Are we going to have house mates chosen as favorites by members and then not be allowed to discuss there negative traits?
Most definitely. Threads will be set up to 'support' of those housemates and any negative comments posted in them will result in a riot and the threads ultimately being closed. The moderators have got a huge job on their hands.

Can the place be as exciting and alive as it was before or are we stuck with the site as it is now?
Only if certain activities are nipped in the bud and certain forum members are taught the meaning of respect.

Are new members going to be welcomed and respected by the old members or are they going to be shot down in flames and told where to go?
In the main yes. But it depends on their views on certain talentless celebrities. If they don't like these certain talentless socialite celebrities then they will most definitely not be welcomed.

Finally what does this say about the potential for a good discussion in Big Brother 8?
There will be discussion but only in certain threads. The divide in the forum will make sure that there is no discussion in other threads. Discuaaion in such threads will lead to arguments and ultimately to the threads being closed. You watch and see it happen.

[bananarama]

General comments.

As an older poster in more ways than one.
TIBB has certainly changed (For the worse in my opinion)from what it was back in the days of BB2 the end of BB2 is when I joined.

However the regularity or not of me posting mainly depends on how good or interesting a particular BB series is to me personally.

On the other hand when I read aggressive debates or arguments then it is off putting and tend to read rather than join in.......

Like BB itself TIBB has changed for the worse as far as manners and extremism is concerned. Sadly I think such a trend is irreversable as established diplomatic members of old will decline participating while newer argumentative types will increase in number.

People used to boo a little at evictions now they boo a lot and even boo them entering the house for little reason. Bad manners and intolorence rules unfortunately and sadly I think it will get worse with time.

The same has happened to TIBB over the last couple of years in particular extreme behavour tends to rule over moderate behavour....


Last year for example a poster the name of which I cannot remember and would not say on this thread anyway. The posters comment went along the lines that a certain housemate should be "bladed" and leave the house in an ambulance...Violent opinions make me angry so rather than argue I would probably decide to leave the debate and indeed the forum for a while at least.....


I hope to be posting when BB8 starts if the housemates inspire an interest for me to comment on.....Agressive posters i try to ignore.......But i am only human and can fall for the trap of negative posting like any other if someone really is obnoxious to me personally.

[Ella]

A lot of good posters don't post any more on this site, why?
I dont know about everyone but i can only guess its because BB isnt on at the moment, I reckon people will come back on once BB has started again.

Has the place changed so much it not the friendly place it once was?Yes and No to a certain extent..I think its just people winding other people up to the point where people are getting warning and people are getting banned. People just need to respect peoples opinionsmore I think.

Why have the members lost respect for each other?
I dont think its down to respect like i said on the above question its down to people excepting other members opinions and not turning a debate into a full blown argument

Where did all the fun go?
The fun is still here! I think anyway, otherwise I wouldn't still be coming on TiBB anymore, Its just annoying when people argue over petty things and wind each other up.

What happened to good debate?
It turned into arguments because one side didnt agree with another. I don't think that will ever change. People just get to heated.

Where is the site where things weren't rammed down you throat and personal comments weren't made about members or groups of members?
Theres always going to be that element of personal insults I think there always was to a certain extent..Well there seems to be more of it now I admit that. I dont know why though!

Are we going to have house mates chosen as favorites by members and then not be allowed to discuss there negative traits?
I for one admit to being one of those people who doesnt mind a bit of constructive critisicm, But when members go totally out of there way to wind me up and take the p!ss, then i get mad..I think a lot of people do to be honest. All that needs to stop I agree.

Can the place be as exciting and alive as it was before or are we stuck with the site as it is now?
It can easily go back to the way it was! If each individual member makes sure they are doing there bit to help it along the way. No one can go wrong!

Are new members going to be welcomed and respected by the old members or are they going to be shot down in flames and told where to go?
I think all old members welcome new members with open arms! But if the old members dont get respect from the new members then the old members have no reason to give respect back. New members are always welcome as long as they are respectful to other people opinions. I remember a while back where a lot of new members caused a lot of problmes and arguments on here.

Finally what does this say about the potential for a good discussion in Big Brother 8?
The members of TiBB are fully capable of having a healthy luvely debate/discussion about BB8 and anything not related to BB8. As long as everyone can learn to accept and take on other members opinions.