[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I would like this.

I want Jess Phillips to lead the new Labour party too. Though that wouldn't happen

If Labour were to split,which the Cons and their hardline supporters would likely love to see.
All you would end up with would be continuous Conservative govt.near without any real organised opposition.

As happened when centrists split Labour in the 80s with forming the SDP, thereby ensuring Margaret Thatchers run of absolute power,with the Cons in govt for an astonishing 18 years.

What's really needed is a change to proper PR as a voting system to curb extremes.
PR is something the Cons would never support however.

[Brillopad]

Many people predicted that Corbyn’s hardline extremist political views would soon come to the fore and that is exactly what is happening. I imagine, that due to the current political climate, he feels the time is right and quite likely with a bit of aggressive pushing from Momentum.

In my opinion Corbyn is either every bit as hardline as much has suggested or he is fast becoming Momentum’s puppet. We have a lot to fear from such a government with long-term consequences.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Many people predicted that Corbyn’s hardline extremist political views would soon come to the fore and that is exactly what is happening. I imagine, that due to the current political climate, he feels the time is right and quite likely with a bit of aggressive pushing from Momentum.

In my opinion Corbyn is either every bit as hardline as much has suggested or he is fast becoming Momentum’s puppet. We have a lot to fear from such a government with long-term consequences.

Corbyn is about as far from hard left as Britain is from Australia. Where on earth has this suggestion stemmed from? Where and what is the evidence that brings about such accusations? I don't care how many tabloids try to ram this nonsense down my throat. I refuse to swallow it. All these borrowed words like Marxism, Trotskyism, Socialism that’s being bandied against a man who’s most radical principal is to re-nationalize the railways. For ****s sake, he's not going to storm Buckingham Palace or have us all lining up for butter! From where I'm sitting he just wants to curb the sins of capitalism to a point where the vulnerable have more protection. That isn't communism or socialism, its democratic.

This Red Army analogy you keep painting about Corbyn is nonsense. Hit out at the hard liners by all means but Corbyn isn't one of them.

Tony Robinson is a TV personality and like me, a Labour supporter and his views are no less important than the next Labour supporter. The difference is, because of who he is, his views get published in main stream media. It means nothing unless you want it to mean something.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Corbyn is about as far from hard left as Britain is from Australia. Where on earth has this suggestion stemmed from? Where and what is the evidence that brings about such accusations? I don't care how many tabloids try to ram this nonsense down my throat. I refuse to swallow it. All these borrowed words like Marxism, Trotskyism, Socialism that’s being bandied against a man who’s most radical principal is to re-nationalize the railways. For ****s sake, he's not going to storm Buckingham Palace or have us all lining up for butter! From where I'm sitting he just wants to curb the sins of capitalism to a point where the vulnerable have more protection. That isn't communism or socialism, its democratic.

This Red Army analogy you keep painting about Corbyn is nonsense. Hit out at the hard liners by all means but Corbyn isn't one of them.

Tony Robinson is a TV personality and like me, a Labour supporter and his views are no less important than the next Labour supporter. The difference is, because of who he is, his views get published in main stream media. It means nothing unless you want it to mean something.

Superb post.

The thing ignored now is we have an extreme right wing govt in power.
Which is failing miserably.
One whose supporters are allowing it to trample over and add massive undue stress, to the weakest,poorest,sick and disabled.

One of the most sickening and unjust things anyone can do with power is hammer its most vulnerable in society.
Despicable.

Then when anyone speaks out against such vindictiveness and discrimination being enacted against the sick and disabled.
They get called extreme lefties.

Well hey I will happily be an extreme leftie than an extreme right winger,allowing their govt to have the sick and disabled being made to feel further low class citizens.
Rarely if ever saying anything against their govts policies never mind stopping supporting such a cruel hardline govt and PM.

I was brought up with the saying,the only time you should look down on others is when you are helping them back up.
This govt takes away vital support needed for those in dire need,while it protects those who don't need to be.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Superb post.

The thing ignored now is we have an extreme right wing govt in power.
Which is failing miserably.
One whose supporters are allowing it to trample over and add massive undue stress, to the weakest,poorest,sick and disabled.

One of the most sickening and unjust things anyone can do with power is hammer its most vulnerable in society.
Despicable.

Then when anyone speaks out against such vindictiveness and discrimination being enacted against the sick and disabled.
They get called extreme lefties.

Well hey I will happily be an extreme leftie than an extreme right winger,allowing their govt to have the sick and disabled being made to feel further low class citizens.
Rarely if ever saying anything against their govts policies never mind stopping supporting such a cruel hardline govt and PM.

I was brought up with the saying,the only time you should look down on others is when you are helping them back up.
This govt takes away vital support needed for those in dire need,while it protects those who don't need to be.

The ones being referred to as extreme lefties are the ones constantly trying to ram their opinions down people’s throats by trying to shut down their opinions - people quick to label those with differing opinions as far right.

Many people on the left genuinely care about the less advantaged, the sick and disabled as do many on the right but to think that all those on the left, especially those at the extreme end, care and none of those on the right do so is ridiculous. Politics is about a hell of a lot more than that.

How simplistic a view to think the left are all good people and the right are all bad people. People vote for a political party for many different reasons - but the core discussion of this thread is the controlling behaviour and shut-down tactics of the PC far left doing their utmost to censor any opinions that don’t tally with their own and the way in which they do that.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The ones being referred to as extreme lefties are the ones constantly trying to ram their opinions down people’s throats by trying to shut down their opinions - people quick to label those with differing opinions as far right.

Many people on the left genuinely care about the less advantaged, the sick and disabled as do many on the right but to think that all those on the left, especially those at the extreme end, care and none of those on the right do so is ridiculous. Politics is about a hell of a lot more than that.

How simplistic a view to think the left are all good people and the right are all bad people. People vote for a political party for many different reasons - but the core discussion of this thread is the controlling behaviour and shut-down tactics of the PC far left doing their utmost to censor any opinions that don’t tally with their own and the way in which they do that.

As usual you put your own words in as to what I said which is why I refuse to even try to debate with you.
I never said ALL as in any context.

However continue to do me your biased against me disservice if it gives you that so much pleasure for some reason.
I really don't care a jot what you think, as you with me vice versa too.

[jet]

The doom and gloom is rather overdone. In the United Nations index of World Happiness, in which data is used to implement policies, Britain comes 19th out of 157 countries, beating the likes of Italy, France, China, Japan, Spain.
There was a 4 point rise from 2016 to 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Another recent survey by the Office for National Statistics found that our levels of happiness, well being and life satisfaction are higher than ever before.
The truth is we live longer, safer and more comfortable lives than any previous generation.
Of course we have our problems, and still will have no matter which gov. is in power, as the past has demonstrated time and time again.

When you look at the desperate poverty, deprivation and lack of freedom that many countries suffer, we are damn lucky. You'd think that our weakest, poorest, sickest, were all left to deliberately starve and die. Our NHS is pretty darn good despite it's problems and the nations health and economic status is improving...despite the fact that we still haven't recovered from the recession. Count your blessings and hope that the upward trends continue.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by jet

The doom and gloom is rather overdone.

The thing is though, if you believe this (and it's almost certainly true), you have to believe the flipside, too. I know you personally hate Corbyn and have your reasons... but, if you're asking for logic / reason / levelheadedness... I think we all know that the chances of the UK becoming some sort of hard-left communist dictatorship off the back of Labour winning a General Election are realistically zero. It just isn't going to happen, is it. Huge shifts like that take cataclysmic events and the honest truth is that if you could fast-forward 10 years under Labour, or 10 years under Tory, and have a look... the country "in broad strokes" would look pretty much the same.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Superb post.

The thing ignored now is we have an extreme right wing govt in power.
Which is failing miserably.
One whose supporters are allowing it to trample over and add massive undue stress, to the weakest,poorest,sick and disabled.

One of the most sickening and unjust things anyone can do with power is hammer its most vulnerable in society.
Despicable.

Then when anyone speaks out against such vindictiveness and discrimination being enacted against the sick and disabled.
They get called extreme lefties.

Well hey I will happily be an extreme leftie than an extreme right winger,allowing their govt to have the sick and disabled being made to feel further low class citizens.
Rarely if ever saying anything against their govts policies never mind stopping supporting such a cruel hardline govt and PM.

I was brought up with the saying,the only time you should look down on others is when you are helping them back up.
This govt takes away vital support needed for those in dire need,while it protects those who don't need to be.

Good saying, I think I'll adopt that one

[Withano]

Well right wing politics ain't working. Maybe this is worth a try for both main parties. (Not that I'm literally humouring the hyperbole you fell for)

[Kizzy]

Well well... someones very jittery at the prospect of a left wing govt, they're even attempting to suggest he's too old for the job as if the lobster ripping cigar smoking brandy guzzling stuffed shirts would be any fitter.

What have the right wing and the 'centre' done other than outsource the country into the floor? Time for a new way.

And as for the 'hang the tories' banner that is constantly referenced as a a slight to the left for some reason there is not one scrap of evidence that suggests that that was anything to do with Labour or any Labour affiliates or members so why is it toted as such?
It's a prime example of a tabloidesque demonisation that has no basis in fact but is used to discredit 'the left'... even though when referred to previously I personally stated on hereI did not agree with such language.

Renationalisation is common sense and as it happens the only option as far as I can see, unless we want more foreign investment in our public services and infrastructure... If someone could explain how a sovereign country that is effectively run remotely from another works? Because to me that would be the last thing that anyone who voted brexit wanted! We want to govern our own affairs don't we?... Well, do it then! run our own hospitals, trains, construction and whatever else carrillion has ( govt approved) messed up.

Say whatever you like about the left it is all at this stage scaremongering to maintain the right wing status quo which is about as dire as it gets so I say it's time for another way, take for example the collapse of carriolion were provisions put in place for the pensions of the workforce?... no they were however for the bonuses of the major stakeholders, why? And why is that just taken as acceptable and not causing a national outcry?...
Because in some warped way it's seen as right, it can be done and so it must be right... but it isn't right it's totally corrupt and wrong and our government is to blame here and yet again all we see in the media is LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK WHAT THE LEFTIES ARE DOING NOW! OOOOOOH, THEY'RE TERRIBLE!
It's a smokescreen and in the same old tunnel vision fashion many just can't see the bigger picture here.

Try not to focus to intently on the 'what if's' and look at what is happening right here and right now and ask yourself if it's what you want for your country. If the answer is no then there's an alternative.

Corbyn has the backing of banks, business, he wants brexit but on the social side he wants people to maintain the rights and protections they enjoy today, a decent wage, housing, effective schooling, fair taxes, and access to higher education for all... Who doesn't want that?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well well... someones very jittery at the prospect of a left wing govt, they're even attempting to suggest he's too old for the job as if the lobster ripping cigar smoking brandy guzzling stuffed shirts would be any fitter.

What have the right wing and the 'centre' done other than outsource the country into the floor? Time for a new way.

And as for the 'hang the tories' banner that is constantly referenced as a a slight to the left for some reason there is not one scrap of evidence that suggests that that was anything to do with Labour or any Labour affiliates or members so why is it toted as such?
It's a prime example of a tabloidesque demonisation that has no basis in fact but is used to discredit 'the left'... even though when referred to previously I personally stated on hereI did not agree with such language.

Renationalisation is common sense and as it happens the only option as far as I can see, unless we want more foreign investment in our public services and infrastructure... If someone could explain how a sovereign country that is effectively run remotely from another works? Because to me that would be the last thing that anyone who voted brexit wanted! We want to govern our own affairs don't we?... Well, do it then! run our own hospitals, trains, construction and whatever else carrillion has ( govt approved) messed up.

Say whatever you like about the left it is all at this stage scaremongering to maintain the right wing status quo which is about as dire as it gets so I say it's time for another way, take for example the collapse of carriolion were provisions put in place for the pensions of the workforce?... no they were however for the bonuses of the major stakeholders, why? And why is that just taken as acceptable and not causing a national outcry?...
Because in some warped way it's seen as right, it can be done and so it must be right... but it isn't right it's totally corrupt and wrong and our government is to blame here and yet again all we see in the media is LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK WHAT THE LEFTIES ARE DOING NOW! OOOOOOH, THEY'RE TERRIBLE!
It's a smokescreen and in the same old tunnel vision fashion many just can't see the bigger picture here.

Try not to focus to intently on the 'what if's' and look at what is happening right here and right now and ask yourself if it's what you want for your country. If the answer is no then there's an alternative.

Corbyn has the backing of banks, business, he wants brexit but on the social side he wants people to maintain the rights and protections they enjoy today, a decent wage, housing, effective schooling, fair taxes, and access to higher education for all... Who doesn't want that?

Not much point in caring for individuals if, whether by madness or sheer stupidity, the many can be wiped off the face of the earth by a nuclear bomb because he has disarmed the nation.

The world is full of madmen who would see such an act as making Britain easy pickings and would be only too keen to oblige. If he ever makes PM, which I doubt, he should never be allowed such power and put us all at risk like that. That sort of unrealistic idealism is nothing short of mental illness.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not much point in caring for individuals if, whether by madness or sheer stupidity, the many can be wiped off the face of the earth by a nuclear bomb because he has disarmed the nation.

The world is full of madmen who would see such an act as making Britain easy pickings and would be only too keen to oblige. If he ever makes PM, which I doubt, he should never be allowed such power and put us all at risk like that. That sort of unrealistic idealism is nothing short of mental illness.

And just how in a democracy could he facilitate this?... Again this is just nothing more than a media inspired scare tactic, which you appear to have taken as gospel is going to come to fruition.... That is nothing short of mental illness, believing some fear driven hypothetical!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And just how in a democracy could he facilitate this?... Again this is just nothing more than a media inspired scare tactic, which you appear to have taken as gospel is going to come to fruition.... That is nothing short of mental illness, believing some fear driven hypothetical!

Does Corbyn support unilateral disarmament or not? Are you denying he does?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Does Corbyn support unilateral disarmament or not? Are you denying he does?

He does, but as I said we live in a democracy there is no way he could even as PM override the will of the people.

There would be vote upon vote, he would have to have the backing of both his cabinet and the rest of parliament... it's never going to happen so again it's a pointless misnomer to suggest it as a viable reason not to have him as PM.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well well... someones very jittery at the prospect of a left wing govt, they're even attempting to suggest he's too old for the job as if the lobster ripping cigar smoking brandy guzzling stuffed shirts would be any fitter.

What have the right wing and the 'centre' done other than outsource the country into the floor? Time for a new way.

And as for the 'hang the tories' banner that is constantly referenced as a a slight to the left for some reason there is not one scrap of evidence that suggests that that was anything to do with Labour or any Labour affiliates or members so why is it toted as such?
It's a prime example of a tabloidesque demonisation that has no basis in fact but is used to discredit 'the left'... even though when referred to previously I personally stated on hereI did not agree with such language.

Renationalisation is common sense and as it happens the only option as far as I can see, unless we want more foreign investment in our public services and infrastructure... If someone could explain how a sovereign country that is effectively run remotely from another works? Because to me that would be the last thing that anyone who voted brexit wanted! We want to govern our own affairs don't we?... Well, do it then! run our own hospitals, trains, construction and whatever else carrillion has ( govt approved) messed up.

Say whatever you like about the left it is all at this stage scaremongering to maintain the right wing status quo which is about as dire as it gets so I say it's time for another way, take for example the collapse of carriolion were provisions put in place for the pensions of the workforce?... no they were however for the bonuses of the major stakeholders, why? And why is that just taken as acceptable and not causing a national outcry?...
Because in some warped way it's seen as right, it can be done and so it must be right... but it isn't right it's totally corrupt and wrong and our government is to blame here and yet again all we see in the media is LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK WHAT THE LEFTIES ARE DOING NOW! OOOOOOH, THEY'RE TERRIBLE!
It's a smokescreen and in the same old tunnel vision fashion many just can't see the bigger picture here.

Try not to focus to intently on the 'what if's' and look at what is happening right here and right now and ask yourself if it's what you want for your country. If the answer is no then there's an alternative.

Corbyn has the backing of banks, business, he wants brexit but on the social side he wants people to maintain the rights and protections they enjoy today, a decent wage, housing, effective schooling, fair taxes, and access to higher education for all... Who doesn't want that?

Another great post from you Kizzy.

Needless to say I agree with all you say.
I also agree with Withano in saying right wing policies aren't working.
That is clear,how many targets have been missed and even abandoned by this govt.this last 7+ years.
How many of their own policies are they now dumping.

Their supporters avoid all that,were it a Labour or other govt however,who had been reducing planned growth figures near every budget.
Failing to make near any of their targets and reducing the NHS to the chaos it is in now,with across the board fears from staff,for patient safety.
The same people and the media would be screaming for Labour or that govt.to be out.

The fear of hardline Cons and their hardline supporters are not really what Labour would do,it is that the Cons are more than likely to not have power after the next election,'thankfully in my view'.

They think they should be the only party in power
always with the rest of parliament serving up token opposition
I have loads of usually Conservative supporters as friends, most of whom are dismayed at this govt.
Some could not vote for them in June last year.

This near hysterical venom against Corbyn,is possibly because he looks a winner after all.
He probably could at least lead the largest party at the next election.
The fear of their precious current heartless Cons in cabinet,being turfed out is behind the venom,I THINK.

When and if that happens, I really hope the great many decent and caring Con MPs make sure they take control of their party again.
Scrapping the cruel,heartless and nasty elements that have been far more evident in the current Con party under Cameron and now May.

Anyway,great post Kizzy.
No matter what others think I for one admire your determination and likely more factual posting.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well well... someones very jittery at the prospect of a left wing govt, they're even attempting to suggest he's too old for the job as if the lobster ripping cigar smoking brandy guzzling stuffed shirts would be any fitter.

What have the right wing and the 'centre' done other than outsource the country into the floor? Time for a new way.

And as for the 'hang the tories' banner that is constantly referenced as a a slight to the left for some reason there is not one scrap of evidence that suggests that that was anything to do with Labour or any Labour affiliates or members so why is it toted as such?
It's a prime example of a tabloidesque demonisation that has no basis in fact but is used to discredit 'the left'... even though when referred to previously I personally stated on hereI did not agree with such language.

Renationalisation is common sense and as it happens the only option as far as I can see, unless we want more foreign investment in our public services and infrastructure... If someone could explain how a sovereign country that is effectively run remotely from another works? Because to me that would be the last thing that anyone who voted brexit wanted! We want to govern our own affairs don't we?... Well, do it then! run our own hospitals, trains, construction and whatever else carrillion has ( govt approved) messed up.

Say whatever you like about the left it is all at this stage scaremongering to maintain the right wing status quo which is about as dire as it gets so I say it's time for another way, take for example the collapse of carriolion were provisions put in place for the pensions of the workforce?... no they were however for the bonuses of the major stakeholders, why? And why is that just taken as acceptable and not causing a national outcry?...
Because in some warped way it's seen as right, it can be done and so it must be right... but it isn't right it's totally corrupt and wrong and our government is to blame here and yet again all we see in the media is LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK WHAT THE LEFTIES ARE DOING NOW! OOOOOOH, THEY'RE TERRIBLE!
It's a smokescreen and in the same old tunnel vision fashion many just can't see the bigger picture here.

Try not to focus to intently on the 'what if's' and look at what is happening right here and right now and ask yourself if it's what you want for your country. If the answer is no then there's an alternative.

Corbyn has the backing of banks, business, he wants brexit but on the social side he wants people to maintain the rights and protections they enjoy today, a decent wage, housing, effective schooling, fair taxes, and access to higher education for all... Who doesn't want that?

All right, keep your hair on. Of course everyone wants that but people disagree on who is best placed to provide that in the future and clearly many don't have much faith in Corbyn to do that. He talks the talk, but whether he can walk the walk or not is questionable. He also has a dodgy history and some very extreme left-wing views which do not sit well again with many people.

It is not as black and white as you make out and is not just about providing for those with less. There are many aspects of politics to think about including as to which party won't completely devastate our futures, increase public debt and damage the long-term economy, not just the short-term. Labour have no better a history than the Tories in many respects so stop implying the man has no faults and is some kind of second-coming - to believe that really is a mental illness.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

All right, keep your hair on. Of course everyone wants that but people disagree on who is best placed to provide that in the future and clearly many don't have much faith in Corbyn to do that. He talks the talk, but whether he can walk the walk or not is questionable. He also has a dodgy history and some very extreme left-wing views which do not sit well again with many people.

It is not as black and white as you make out and is not just about providing for those with less. There are many aspects of politics to think about including as to which party won't completely devastate our futures, increase public debt and damage the long-term economy, not just the short-term. Labour have no better a history than the Tories in many respects so stop implying the man has no faults and is some kind of second-coming - to believe that really is a mental illness.

And that's why the far left is so dangerous. There is an excuse for every questionable action in Corbyn's past, and indeed, his present. They talk about making the country better for all... but that's not what they mean. They accuse others of cronyism when they are terribly guilty of it themselves ("Dame" Sharmishta Chakrabarti for instance...). There is a hatred of the rich, you only have to read through this forum to see that. Never mind the fact that they are employers and investors. I believe in the wisdom of crowds and I believe Corbyn will never get in. Luckily for me, if it does happen, I'll probably be living in the US... let's hope Trump has been impeached by then.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

And that's why the far left is so dangerous. There is an excuse for every questionable action in Corbyn's past, and indeed, his present. They talk about making the country better for all... but that's not what they mean. They accuse others of cronyism when they are terribly guilty of it themselves ("Dame" Sharmishta Chakrabarti for instance...). There is a hatred of the rich, you only have to read through this forum to see that. Never mind the fact that they are employers and investors. I believe in the wisdom of crowds and I believe Corbyn will never get in. Luckily for me, if it does happen, I'll probably be living in the US... let's hope Trump has been impeached by then.

Again you're alluding to something that is only ever hinted at it isn't a fact, there is actual evidence against say, Hunt (BskyB) cameron ( phone hacking) to name just two. You're also neglecting to say theat the current PM is up to her scrawny neck in this carrillion scandal as it appears the govt have a vested interest and are not simply 'customers'.

Where on the forum is there any indication to a 'hatred of the rich' and why have you brought this into the debate, are you suggesting that those who become rich by means of corrupt activity shouldn't be held to account?...

If you believe in the wisdom of crowds then you will be interested in the views of the 500,000+ Labour members then perhaps?
If you choose to live in Trumpville then fair play to you I hear Ms hopkins has plans to move there too, there of course is no questioning of his personal integrity.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

All right, keep your hair on. Of course everyone wants that but people disagree on who is best placed to provide that in the future and clearly many don't have much faith in Corbyn to do that. He talks the talk, but whether he can walk the walk or not is questionable. He also has a dodgy history and some very extreme left-wing views which do not sit well again with many people.

It is not as black and white as you make out and is not just about providing for those with less. There are many aspects of politics to think about including as to which party won't completely devastate our futures, increase public debt and damage the long-term economy, not just the short-term. Labour have no better a history than the Tories in many respects so stop implying the man has no faults and is some kind of second-coming - to believe that really is a mental illness.

Can you reply without the playground chiding please?
Of course nobody knows what kind of leader he will be nobody can but at this point in time he appears to be offering what many in the country want, he has a viable manifesto and a mandate that's credible ...it's more than adequate.

There is nothing 'dodgy' about him, the media had dug and dug and the worst they've come up with is him attending a rally being manhandled by police officers, nothing more. He has no affiliations to any terrorist organisations such is the implication.

Are you aware if the increase in public debt over the period of the last two parliaments? It is very much about those with less as it is those who are bearing the brunt of these austerity measures.
Where will be the burden of the £200 billion to be creamed from the taxpayer fall would you say?

There is no mental illness here, I'm under no illusion that 'new labour' were faultless or there won't be difficult decisions to be made under a Corbyn govt however I need to borrow those rose tinted glasses of yours to see any merit in the May govt, as far as I can see she has led a merry band of incompetents. Every single minister has some skeleton or scandal in their past/present, for me at this stage they're only aim is to siphon off as much money offshore to their pals as possible... They know they're position is untenable so have chosen to bleed the country dry prior to 2020.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

There is nothing 'dodgy' about him, the media had dug and dug and the worst they've come up with is him attending a rally being manhandled by police officers, nothing more. He has no affiliations to any terrorist organisations such is the implication.

That's what the cult all say. There is plenty out there about his dodginess, you just don't do the research or block it all out. You conveniently fail to mention that it was an IRA rally. He was very much affiliated with IRA terrorists and murderers, it was just so long ago not many care anymore... The victims are still dead, but so what? Supporting a terrorist enabler and sympathiser is fine if it will put more money in pockets.
Just keep telling yourself it's all propaganda against the poor old dear and sleep well at night.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jet

That's what the cult all say. There is plenty out there about his dodginess, you just don't do the research or block it all out. You conveniently fail to mention that it was an IRA rally. He was very much affiliated with IRA terrorists and murderers, it was just so long ago not many care anymore... The victims are still dead, but so what? Supporting a terrorist enabler and sympathiser is fine if it will put more money in pockets.
Just keep telling yourself it's all propaganda against the poor old dear and sleep well at night.

So what would your chosen party be Jet?
Do you think the Tories are doing a good job?
Should we be bringing back the likes of Blair and New Labour?
What's your views on our chosen political party in the here and now? presumably you've done as much research on the Cameron and May as you have on Corbyn.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jet

That's what the cult all say. There is plenty out there about his dodginess, you just don't do the research or block it all out. You conveniently fail to mention that it was an IRA rally. He was very much affiliated with IRA terrorists and murderers, it was just so long ago not many care anymore... The victims are still dead, but so what? Supporting a terrorist enabler and sympathiser is fine if it will put more money in pockets.
Just keep telling yourself it's all propaganda against the poor old dear and sleep well at night.

He was at a rally, he didn't mastermind Bloody Sunday did he?

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[joeysteele]

What's dangerous is any govt of any persuasion,hammering the weakest in any society including sick and disabled people.

Such as this vile govt has been allowed to get away with for over 7 years now.

That's a real danger to not only decent democracy but to people totally unable to have any influence or the strength to stand up for themselves.

There is no hatred of the rich from me,I am on the left now of politics.
That's an old jibe that's been used for decades,it's absolute rubbish.
However in any decent society,it should be the strongest backs that carry most of the load needed.
That's what the left advocate and it's a far more decent hope than the cruel heartlessness being allowed to be played out now,by this hardline lot leading govt.now.