[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Marches

The worst I’ve ever been discriminated for being gay was at school where they mocked me for it. They also mocked my hair, shoes, voice, acne, basically everything. A lot of young people and maybe even people in general is that they want to pull as many things as possible into like discrimatory labels that have other meanings or intent to them as well. They just want to paint the entire world as sexist, homophobic, racist ect

There was a quote from Ann day 1 in the house that went something like ‘a girl came up to me in parliament and said ‘isn’t it bad how men treat us’ and they didn’t treat her bad because she was a woman they treated her bad because she was useless’

Lots of children get this treatment too, nothing to do with sexuality

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Paula D

I honestly don't see it Vicky. Maybe the UK is different to Ireland but I don't see gay people or people of a different race treated any differently in day to day life.

Yeah I get that some people don't get/see it. I think sometimes unless you are part of the disadvantaged group its something you just won't get as everything does seem to be equal. Like, I will try to explain what I mean from the POV of a woman...who do have equal rights in law from men, but are still disadvantaged anyway. If I go for a job interview, I know that there is a quite large chance that I will be discriminated against for being the age I am and female, as employers think I may go off on maternity leave soon. Whilst they are not allowed to actually not pick me for that reason, it does happen and all they have to say is 'well the man was best for the job'. Its against the law to discriminate based on sex, but it happens and people just have ways around it. At the same time, I am at very large risk of sexual assault, simply for being female. Yes, it is against the law to sexually assault someone, but again, it happens, and a LOT.

I could go on and on about this but I figure this is probably enough and anymore will have me labelled a raving lunatic There are so many different ways people experience discrimination that are not necessarily about the law being unequal. This is why I believe equity is better than equality. Equality totally ignores the various ways that people are still discriminated against. Equality is a great idea, but its just not feasible in reality, if everyone started off on equal footing, then it would be different, but they do not. Sometimes treating everyone equal is the most unfair thing you can do.

Edited to add. I don't walk around feeling sorry for myself because I am a woman and may face discrimination or be attacked for something I cannot change mind. But I do acknowledge that I am likely to be disadvantaged due to my sex.

[Paula D]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah I get that some people don't get/see it. I think sometimes unless you are part of the disadvantaged group its something you just won't get as everything does seem to be equal. Like, I will try to explain what I mean from the POV of a woman...who do have equal rights in law from men, but are still disadvantaged anyway. If I go for a job interview, I know that there is a quite large chance that I will be discriminated against for being the age I am and female, as employers think I may go off on maternity leave soon. Whilst they are not allowed to actually not pick me for that reason, it does happen and all they have to say is 'well the man was best for the job'. Its against the law to discriminate based on sex, but it happens and people just have ways around it. At the same time, I am at very large risk of sexual assault, simply for being female. Yes, it is against the law to sexually assault someone, but again, it happens, and a LOT.

I could go on and on about this but I figure this is probably enough and anymore will have me labelled a raving lunatic There are so many different ways people experience discrimination that are not necessarily about the law being unequal. This is why I believe equity is better than equality. Equality totally ignores the various ways that people are still discriminated against. Equality is a great idea, but its just not feasible in reality, if everyone started off on equal footing, then it would be different, but they do not. Sometimes treating everyone equal is the most unfair thing you can do.

Edited to add. I don't walk around feeling sorry for myself because I am a woman and may face discrimination or be attacked for something I cannot change mind. But I do acknowledge that I am likely to be disadvantaged due to my sex.

Yeah I agree with all that and understand it but in the 2 examples you give they are both down to individuals.

The individual who won't hire a woman and the individual who will carry out a sexual assault.

What I'm trying to say is we can only change one person and that's ourselves. That in turn filters down to our children and so on and so on.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah I get that some people don't get/see it. I think sometimes unless you are part of the disadvantaged group its something you just won't get as everything does seem to be equal. Like, I will try to explain what I mean from the POV of a woman...who do have equal rights in law from men, but are still disadvantaged anyway. If I go for a job interview, I know that there is a quite large chance that I will be discriminated against for being the age I am and female, as employers think I may go off on maternity leave soon. Whilst they are not allowed to actually not pick me for that reason, it does happen and all they have to say is 'well the man was best for the job'. Its against the law to discriminate based on sex, but it happens and people just have ways around it. At the same time, I am at very large risk of sexual assault, simply for being female. Yes, it is against the law to sexually assault someone, but again, it happens, and a LOT.

I could go on and on about this but I figure this is probably enough and anymore will have me labelled a raving lunatic There are so many different ways people experience discrimination that are not necessarily about the law being unequal. This is why I believe equity is better than equality. Equality totally ignores the various ways that people are still discriminated against. Equality is a great idea, but its just not feasible in reality, if everyone started off on equal footing, then it would be different, but they do not. Sometimes treating everyone equal is the most unfair thing you can do.

Edited to add. I don't walk around feeling sorry for myself because I am a woman and may face discrimination or be attacked for something I cannot change mind. But I do acknowledge that I am likely to be disadvantaged due to my sex.

This happened to me just after I gained my qualifications as a mature student.

I had years of workplace experience as well and applied for a job in London and went for an interview. The man looked at my CV asked about my work and at the end of the interview said I was too old to lead his young team, this was his only comment. I immediately said he couldn't say this and went to the local job centre for advice.

They found out later that he employed a man older than me with no qualifications. I took it to tribunal where he said I had not enough experience and supplied my CV with the whole page of my working life, missing.
I had his solicitor ring me with threats saying my claim was malicious and I would be liable for high court costs. I told him to get lost or I would report him for harassment.

On the morning of the tribunal, they conceded without going to court. I refused to accept their first measly offer but accepted a second.

This is just my experience of how a woman of an age was treated in the workplace.

I spent some of the money on a lovely trip to Hong Kong, Thailand and Singapore, I sent him a postcard saying thanks

[Niamh.]

"Something came in about the Page 3 thing...and that's when I went: you know what, let me just make a sandwich. It's like a volcano, you see a little bubble pop there and another pop over there and then it's pop pop pop together, you know it's time to go and make a sandwich."

- Shane Lynch, 2018

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

"Something came in about the Page 3 thing...and that's when I went: you know what, let me just make a sandwich. It's like a volcano, you see a little bubble pop there and another pop over there and then it's pop pop pop together, you know it's time to go and make a sandwich."

- Shane Lynch, 2018

[Tom4784]

She's entitled to not want to get involved if she wants but I utterly despise how people will use statements like that to try to demonise and downplay movements that make them uncomfortable.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Robodog

Amanda (when talking to Wayne in the bathroom):

"I really believe - just take people as they are. Take the bloody labels off!"

Love it.

This is the whole point of equality, in a nutshell:
To see people as the individuals we all are.
Because as individuals - we stand as equals.
We are all a minority of one:
Equally as important, equally as unique as the next.

Doesn't matter what your race/gender/religion/sexual preference is - we are all an one off.

As long as we keep segregating ourselves off into different 'communities', then we deny our individuality, we reduce ourselves down to faceless cogs in the wheel of the chosen 'group'.

Splitting people up into groups like this does not create equality.
Quite the opposite. It's more like tribal warfare.

My gay/straight/black/white friends and family members are all part of the same community, OUR community.
Why would we want to separate ourselves off into 'different communities'??
What would that achieve exactly?

This is the problem with labelling people.

It's the same way racism works: label people according to their superficial 'type' and then separate and judge them for it, ordering them into some kind of 'social rating system' :

"This group are all like this. While this other group are all like that!"

It's stereotypical to do this!

Individuals matter.
Groups are vague, generalised concepts: 'groups' don't have feelings.
Individuals have feelings.

Amanda is right: take people as they are (individually) and take the labels off.

[Marches]

This was such a fantastic quote btw and a great way to think about life that everyone should adopt. We’ve been going so far the other way as a society lately we need more people like Amanda

[GoldHeart]

Just for that quote alone Amanda should be in the final instead of Shane J .

[Livia]

I've seen Stonewall mentioned on this forum several times now. Stonewall's motto is 'Acceptance without exception'. So if you're going to use it as an example, it would be fitting to apply that motto to everyone even when it's hard to do.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Livia

I've seen Stonewall mentioned on this forum several times now. Stonewall's motto is 'Acceptance without exception'. So if you're going to use it as an example, it would be fitting to apply that motto to everyone even when it's hard to do.

yes and if they dont accept it call them scum and hate on them

[chuff me dizzy]

What a better world it would be if people would drop the labels they stick on themselves .... If people are nice be they black, white,gay or straight ,no one needs the label and to demand special treatment because you own a label will get you nowhere in life

[caprimint]

Any of Shane/Courtney's quotes are better than this

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Any of Shane/Courtney's quotes are better than this

Me,me,me,me gets boring after hearing it once

[Tom4784]

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

i don't see it that way at all. I see it as everyone is an individual and should be afforded the same respect whomever they are. Discrimination is a big deal, prejudice is a big deal, but we have to get past special categorization, to genuinely treat everyone equally.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i don't see it that way at all. I see it as everyone is an individual and should be afforded the same respect whomever they are. Discrimination is a big deal, prejudice is a big deal, but we have to get passed special categorization, to genuinely treat everyone equally.

But that's never going to be the case because people aren't equal, it's just expecting everyone that's not the majority to be happy with their lot when they don't get the same quality of life for societal reasons.

I despise this attitude of 'oh well, things will never be equal while the gays/black people etc have pride/black history month/ special circumstances that don't balance out the scales in the slightest but offends people in the majority nonetheless!' You can't expect someone who is not on an equal playing field to give up what they have just for the smallest possibility of equality. Improve those situations to a point that these things aren't needed any more but don't ask people to give up things on a vague maybe.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a dangerous mentality that judges people not as individuals - but according to their 'type'.
We have to move away from 'group-think' and embrace individualism.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Robodog

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a society that judges people according to 'type'.
The only way to do that is to embrace our own - and each others - individuality.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo - however well meaning they are - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

Very little of that has anything to do with what I'm saying, in fact your first few paragraphs enforces it. Too many people pretend to fly the flag of equality just to quieten down dissenting voices while having no interest in actually working towards that equality.

The whole 'innocent men and innocent white people' being victimised by Metoo and BLM made me roll my eyes in a way that Ann would have stood up and clapped for. BLM isn't against all white people, it isn't even against white people, it's against police brutality, it was formed in response to a string of unjustified murders committed by the police against black people. If you look at BLM and think that they are against white people then you are missing the point.

Same for Metoo, it's not an attack on men, it's an attack on anyone that sexually abuses, assaults or harasses others. If you see the movement as an attack on 'innocent men' then you've missed the point again.

You've not really given me any reason to believe that you aren't just another person that wants to shut up voices they don't want to hear.

[Robodog]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

1. If you look at BLM and think that they are against white people then you are missing the point.

2. If you see the movement as an attack on 'innocent men' then you've missed the point again.

3, You've not really given me any reason to believe that you aren't just another person that wants to shut up voices they don't want to hear.

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/cather...etter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Robodog

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/cather...etter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

One person doesn't speak for a movement.

A voice damning a movement doesn't rob it of it's validity either.

As for your final point, it's called reading between the lines. You say you want equality but your criticism of these groups and the fact that you're justifying your dislike through both a warped understanding of their goals and presenting singular people as evidence of your claims speaks louder.

The fact that you are suggesting civil rights group help perpetuate these issues further than if they were silent says it all. It's that silence you're after.

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Robodog

1. Here are BLM's demands for white people

https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/

2. Women denouncing metoo and it's negative effects on men and women

http://metro.co.uk/2018/01/10/cather...etter-7218327/

3. Give me an example of when i wanted to shut anyone up!

I'm discussing constructive ways to evolve beyond the corrosive and divisive mentality of social stereotypes.

I'm denouncing racism, misogyny and religious bigotry and saying how we must be careful not to perpetuate it further.

I'm discussing equality in a meaningful way by embracing us as individuals - not as groups!

It's all there in my posts.

Can't see how you can miss all that unless

a) you haven't read my posts properly or
b) you are deliberately ignoring it

.

You know snowflakes ignore all reason, cause it doesnt fit with the narrative of the lefty brainwashing they suffer at the hands of middle class twats at home and at school

The middle class are responsible for this and must be destroyed

Hows that for fairness lol

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Robodog

You are missing the point

It's about how best to liberate ourselves from a dangerous mentality that judges people not as individuals - but according to their 'type'.
We have to move away from 'group-think' and embrace individualism.
As individuals we stand equal
But once you start segregating people into groups and then judging them according to your social barometer, then we are in trouble. That's how racism works.

Of course we all agree that the KKK and misogynist attitudes are wrong for how they demonise innocent people according to their race or gender.
But Black Lives Matter and the #MeToo movement - also do the same thing: judge people according to race and gender!
It's just the same mentality in reverse!

Innocent white people are demonised by BLM, and innocent men are demonised by #MeToo

TRUE that racists and misogynists started this racial/gender divide - but we have to be SO careful not to perpetuate it by doing the EXACT same thing and demonising innocent INDIVIDUALS out of some kind of 'social revenge'.

Crimes against blacks or women were not committed by ALL whites or ALL men - so why demonise the whole genre?

It's like blaming ALL MUSLIMS for the attacks by ISIS!

Crimes were committed by INDIVIDUALS and those people must be held to account.
Don't blame their whole race/gender or religion!

.

Bloody well said!!!

[Miranda123]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The fact that people are more upset about these civil rights groups being loud about their cause rather than the inequality that is causing them to stand up and make themselves known in the first place says it all really.

A lot of the 'oh we don't need labels, we don't need this/that' mentality that comes from people who aren't part of the demographic protesting is simply just another way of saying 'you need to be quiet, we like the status quo'.

I have been part of the demographic since childhood, as part of an Irish Catholic Traveller family, the first to live in an actual house, so please dont assume you know me or anyone else writing on here

Professional victimhood is the name of the game now, and why ?

because the young, today, dont want to think, or feel, for themselves, so they go online to see HOW they should think and feel, and read a load of drivel from other professional victims

I had a friend who killed himself because his family would not accept him being gay, that was an horrendous time and I would not wish that feeling on anyone, but the only thing he wanted, was to be seen as who he was, a loving, kind, intelligent man, who treated everyone with respect if they deserved it, and the only thing he wanted was for his family to see him as their Son/Brother, and not the 'Gay' man he was, because just as heterosexuals do not share their sexual preferences around the dinner table, he did not see why his sexual preference was the 'elephant in the room'

The day we dont ask, an obviously gay man, if he is gay, or an obviously black person, where they/their parents are from will be a day to celebrate

Of course we will still have the snowflakes crying into their quinoa but seriously, who gives a f..k!