[arista]

They need to go on TV news
to justify their dolls
from the long past

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder if they make celebration cakes?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

If the dolls are period then i dont see the issue


I cant imagine any black person being offended legitimately so seems like a charming decoration of a bygone age. I have sold quite a few Jolly Negro coin banks in my time, very popular they are

here is one for sale on ebay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-S...8AAOSwPypaeZTs

One or two as part of decoration reflecting a particular period, sure. 15 of them hung around the bar is deliberately trying to make some sort of point. It has to be. I refuse to believe that anyone is just THAT bad at decorating their pub.

"Hey we need more decorations what will we get?"

"Yet another gollywog?"

"Yes excellent."



I also see no indication anywhere else in their decor that it's a deliberate era-based theme. It looks like a Wetherspoons with gollywogs nailed to the walls ffs.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They run a business and Golliwogs whether they like it or not are considered racist caricatures of black people. If they want to put them up in a private setting then they are free to do so but businesses run by different rules and such decorations in such a blatant fashion is going to run afoul of discrimination laws.

If the decor was inspired by 70's/80's nostalgia then I could understand maybe having one as representative of the era but that many? That's just ridiculous.

I agree entirely.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Livia

I had a golly when I was a kid, that used to be my Mum's. I thought it was a creature, like a fairy or a goblin. I had no idea it was anything to do with black people because none of the black people I knew looked like that.

Yeah i remember playing with one whenever I visited my grandparents.

But yeah,These days they need to keep em in the back.The regulars aren’t bothered by them but If they get any of those non-local city folk in they might cause offence.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

One or two as part of decoration reflecting a particular period, sure. 15 of them hung around the bar is deliberately trying to make some sort of point. It has to be. I refuse to believe that anyone is just THAT bad at decorating their pub.

"Hey we need more decorations what will we get?"

"Yet another gollywog?"

"Yes excellent."



I also see no indication anywhere else in their decor that it's a deliberate era-based theme. It looks like a Wetherspoons with gollywogs nailed to the walls ffs.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I wonder if they make celebration cakes?

Never seen a Gollywog celebration cake.What could it be celebrating?

[Toy Soldier]

Racial issues aside, a jet black cake is always a bad idea, as it will stain your mouth the colour that the black was made from (usually very dark blue). No gollywog cakes.

[montblanc]

even if these dolls' origins aren't racist the black ones look like the racist black stereotypes from back in the day so they shouldn't have them on display like that imo

[montblanc]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

They run a business and Golliwogs whether they like it or not are considered racist caricatures of black people. If they want to put them up in a private setting then they are free to do so but businesses run by different rules and such decorations in such a blatant fashion is going to run afoul of discrimination laws.

If the decor was inspired by 70's/80's nostalgia then I could understand maybe having one as representative of the era but that many? That's just ridiculous.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Livia

I had a golly when I was a kid, that used to be my Mum's. I thought it was a creature, like a fairy or a goblin. I had no idea it was anything to do with black people because none of the black people I knew looked like that.

Co-incidentally I was given one too that had belonged to a family member and I -loved- it. It was a favourite cuddle. I didn't think it was like a person just a toy like a teddy bear. Then someone pointed out the not pc element it was taken away from me. I was really small, didn't understand and was quite upset at the loss. I remember asking an asking for it as a kid. But now as an adult I can see why people would find it offensive.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I used to collect gollywog labels from Robinsons jam as you could send away for an enamel badge

[Crimson Dynamo]

[bots]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I used to collect gollywog labels from Robinsons jam as you could send away for an enamel badge

me too, and there was a book we got at school that was part of the school curriculum in primary, but that doesn't make it right

[Withano]

I think implying that only "the PC brigade" are offended by gollywogs is an insult to all of the country (apart from that bloke and LT apparently).

[Alf]

I don't care who's offended, that's their problem, not mine. You'll just have to become an adult, and learn to deal with your thin skin.

[Marches]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Racial issues aside, a jet black cake is always a bad idea, as it will stain your mouth the colour that the black was made from (usually very dark blue). No gollywog cakes.

Racist trash bet ur perfectly ok stuffing ur face with white cakes

See we can make anything racist

[GoldHeart]

Gollywogs still exist and usually in seaside shops strangely enough ,
So you can't get rid of of gollywogs entirely .
What i find weird is the way they're in this pub and displayed .

Gollywogs will always have racist undertones . But if you own them it doesn't necessarily mean you're racist, which i think some people get confused by .
Some dislike them because of the negative imagery ,and the resemblance to the minstrels .

They're still apart of people's childhood , they're odd looking caricatures that i personally have no interest in buying .

This explains the origin better
http://www.historyofdolls.com/histor...y-of-golliwog/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Yeah i remember playing with one whenever I visited my grandparents.

But yeah,These days they need to keep em in the back.The regulars aren’t bothered by them but If they get any of those non-local city folk in they might cause offence.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Honestly though. Anyone who is trying to claim that there isn't any issue with a big bald tattooed white bloke, with a pub called "The White Hart", choosing to decorate it with other one or two but FIFTEEN dolls which specifically exaggerate the physical features of black people for caricature / comic effect...

Either lying or stupid. Take your pick I guess

Whatever he is, he has been nothing but polite and helpful when ive been in.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Whatever he is, he has been nothing but polite and helpful when ive been in.

Maybe cos he assumed you was a racist like him and the rest of the customers, and he wanted your money?

[Maru]

There's more evidence of racism towards this man than evidence of racism I think based on the article. He's had conversations with his patrons about it, and he's not been aggressive or unwelcoming towards people about it seems. He's welcoming a dialogue. That's quite profound. Maybe he's advertising his freedom of speech here by putting up a dozen dolls, but this doesn't automatically mean "oh he's intentionally being offensive!"... there are people who bring up race and bigotry every chance they get... but they can see beyond race right? That doesn't wash. Could easily be interpreted as a counter demonstration to quite a common dialogue in society.

If he were an actual racist, they would be hidden in the back room or he'd be very defensive and discourteous towards folk who questioned him about it. Change his skin color, if this were a black person... and they had Black Power dolls/posters everywhere or something. Which some people do put up when they have organizations or meetings, etc. Some of the same folk would say it's "empowerment" or "freedom of speech" or sharing "their roots"...

TLDR; My point is, none of us can definitively say we know what his intent is. But to automatically go for the worst conclusion on the basis of the color of his skin, his appearance(s) and the items in his bar actually in itself is a racist conclusion.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Withano

Maybe cos he assumed you was a racist like him and the rest of the customers, and he wanted your money?

Maybe you could say that seeing as gollywogs are loved, cuddled and generally associated with happiness, denying this lovely man. As that is how i can only judge him. Denying him the right to show off a historic toy as popular as teddy bears like the gollywog is tantamount to racism itself...so maybe you are the racist cause you are seeing a cuddly toy as something nasty simply because its black.

[smudgie]

My problem with it is people still calling it gollywog, golly would suffice.
My daughter wanted one years back and I had no problem buying her one.
I think at the time there had been a surge in their popularity.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Maru

There's more evidence of racism towards this man than evidence of racism I think based on the article. He's had conversations with his patrons about it, and he's not been aggressive or unwelcoming towards people about it seems. He's welcoming a dialogue. That's quite profound. Maybe he's advertising his freedom of speech here by putting up a dozen dolls, but this doesn't automatically mean "oh he's intentionally being offensive!"... there are people who bring up race and bigotry every chance they get... but they can see beyond race right? That doesn't wash. Could easily be interpreted as a counter demonstration to quite a common dialogue in society.

If he were an actual racist, they would be hidden in the back room or he'd be very defensive and discourteous towards folk who questioned him about it. Change his skin color, if this were a black person... and they had Black Power dolls/posters everywhere or something. Which some people do put up when they have organizations or meetings, etc. Some of the same folk would say it's "empowerment" or "freedom of speech" or sharing "their roots"...

TLDR; My point is, none of us can definitively say we know what his intent is. But to automatically go for the worst conclusion on the basis of the color of his skin, his appearance(s) and the items in his bar actually in itself is a racist conclusion.

100% Maru