[DemolitionRed]

We have been running deficits since 1694!

[user104658]

Well a lot of people seem to be taking it as meaning there is no longer debt ... We are still in huge debt and still making huge interest payments. You could also make a strong argument that we are not in a "real" budget surplus until we are in the black and still properly funding councils and public services which we are currently not. I mean... Getting into the black is in theory never a difficult thing to do? You just cut outgoings. The government could have been in the black instantly 10 years ago, simply by cutting every penny of health spending. Yes, people would have been dying in the streets, but we would have been "in the black"...

So I guess it just depends how far you're willing to go on a sliding scale? I personally would much prefer that a budget surplus be achieved by increasing productivity, or at least increasing efficiency, rather than simply cutting what we already have.

[Kizzy]

Debt is doubled isn't it? What this effectively means is the govt are hoarding money, not paying anything whilst imposing austerity measures and wage caps on public services, which if we are in the black they have no reason or justification for...

Why do they want this money is it a war chest? further bungs to 'helpful' parties?
I too would like to know why anyone sees this as a positive, 'there is no magic money tree' may said... well where is this money from then and what is it for?

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Research published by the International Monetary Fund said Britain set an example for other countries to follow in slashing the deficit by cutting public spending, rather than raising taxes."

[Kizzy]

But the IMF warns that upbeat assessments of the global economy “ignore debt levels that remain close to historic highs and the inevitable end of the cyclical upswing”.

“Servicing debt will become a major burden,” it warns.

[Livia]

Whether it's a good thing or not depends entirely on your political leaning.

[Crimson Dynamo]

in terms of politics it will harden the general public's opinion that the Conservatives are much better with money than labour

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

in terms of politics it will harden the general public's opinion that the Conservatives are much better with money than labour

That's the way the circle goes, isn't it. Labour spends, the Tories get in a nd have to make cuts to get the economy back on track, Labour gets back in, spend all the money, and so it continues...

[Ammi]

..I don’t profess to understand country black or red bank balances, it’s not my thing at all..but it would feel logical though that a black bank balance could or would be a good thing if the surplus was spent where needed most...if it had a purpose...with this government though, so much money seems to be ‘thrown’ at things like new systems and procedures etc and changing courses...things that just don’t seem to be priority and can often be a money waste because they haven’t been tweaked enough to work effectively...so they can be quite badly thought out or seemingly no thought at all...and nothing or very little throwing in those places in desperate need to be addressed...so a black balance would be a good thing..?..if used correctly and where needed to try to prevent less vulnerable in our world..?...perhaps, because I have very little knowledge of country finance stuff...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so they can be quite badly thought out or seemingly no thought at all...and nothing or very little throwing in those places in desperate need to be addressed...so a black balance would be a good thing..?..if used correctly and where needed to try to prevent less vulnerable in our world..?

Well this is the point, isn't it... The national debt or lack of it, being in the black / red etc. means very little to any of us or any other average citizen... The only important factor is how the resources we have are actually being used. So even those who are celebrating being out of the red surely have to see... It is completely and utterly meaningless, if the government don't then start to use that money efficiently to improve our towns, our services, and the day to day lives of normal people. Does it really benefit anyone to say "Oh hooray the government has a positive cash flow now!" if nothing is being spent on improvements or at least on stopping further decay. Towns are literally crumbling across the country... Pretty much everywhere outside of London and affluent SoE areas... It's an embarrassment. Roads and public services are a disgrace. The health service is struggling. The disabled and vulnerable (whether people "see it" or not; I envy those who are in a position not to) have been hammered.

So yes it's great if it truly is an indication that things are on the up... But only if that momentum is used to make actual, meaningful changes and improvements? Otherwise I don't really know why anyone is keen to crow about these achievements.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well this is the point, isn't it... The national debt or lack of it, being in the black / red etc. means very little to any of us or any other average citizen... The only important factor is how the resources we have are actually being used. So even those who are celebrating being out of the red surely have to see... It is completely and utterly meaningless, if the government don't then start to use that money efficiently to improve our towns, our services, and the day to day lives of normal people. Does it really benefit anyone to say "Oh hooray the government has a positive cash flow now!" if nothing is being spent on improvements or at least on stopping further decay. Towns are literally crumbling across the country... Pretty much everywhere outside of London and affluent SoE areas... It's an embarrassment. Roads and public services are a disgrace. The health service is struggling. The disabled and vulnerable (whether people "see it" or not; I envy those who are in a position not to) have been hammered.

So yes it's great if it truly is an indication that things are on the up... But only if that momentum is used to make actual, meaningful changes and improvements? Otherwise I don't really know why anyone is keen to crow about these achievements.

..it’s the ‘wasted’ spending really, TS...the ‘pointless’ spending that won’t see improvement for anyone...just one little example of something a friend said to me only last week...with the weather conditions of winter..road markings were being addressed on done on some country roads he was travelling on..but no huge pot holes had been filled, so basically just marking around them, type thing...so crazy.....the NHS yeah..but for me personally recently it hasn’t felt ‘lacking’ at all..I have nothing but huge praise for what we have in this day...but I also know I’m fortunate and blessed in my own experiences as well..it’s not so for everyone, sadly...one over the last few years when I was working more in schools...was ‘Prevent’...a huge government focus and expenditure...so did it ‘prevent’, has it prevented...was it justified and was it needed in justification etc..?....hmmm, no real signs that it was tbh...so ‘wasted money’...rather than have been focused expenditure on ‘actuals’, rather than ‘possibles’...?...a black bank balance still can’t afford to ‘waste’, waste is never really affordable...for the majority, regardless of politics or lifestyle...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

in terms of politics it will harden the general public's opinion that the Conservatives are much better with money than labour

Good at keeping it... Not so good at funding the country.



* waits for the inevitable comment in relation to the world wide recession

[Kizzy]

Do economists get taught that macroeconomics is 99% political?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Do economists get taught that macroeconomics is 99% political?

Chris Giles, economics editor of FT clearly doesn't understand macroeconomics.

[user104658]

Some of their criteria is ridiculous... my daughter's was cut almost in half because they said there was "no proof" that she required care through the night as well as during the day (she can be awake for 4 - 6 hours through the night several times a week). We asked what would constitute proof, and they said a letter from her paediatrician and a sleep specialist... so, we went to her paediatrician and told her exactly what we had already told them, got a sleep specialist nurse and told her the same (note: neither of them assessed her at night, they just believed us when we described it) and then THEY each wrote letters, saying exactly what we had already told DLA people... and that then apparently counts as proof. it's just bizarre.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Some of their criteria is ridiculous... my daughter's was cut almost in half because they said there was "no proof" that she required care through the night as well as during the day (she can be awake for 4 - 6 hours through the night several times a week). We asked what would constitute proof, and they said a letter from her paediatrician and a sleep specialist... so, we went to her paediatrician and told her exactly what we had already told them, got a sleep specialist nurse and told her the same (note: neither of them assessed her at night, they just believed us when we described it) and then THEY each wrote letters, saying exactly what we had already told DLA people... and that then apparently counts as proof. it's just bizarre.

Oh jeez, you must be knackered.

So I take it she got the DLA back?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Oh jeez, you must be knackered.

So I take it she got the DLA back?

Definitely knackered, about 5 hours sleep is standard . PLUS I always plan to have a nap in the day when I'm off and they're at school, but then I end up arguing the toss on here instead .

DLA is still under review . The process takes forever.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You did not run me anywhere, but thank you for the welcome back.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Definitely knackered, about 5 hours sleep is standard . PLUS I always plan to have a nap in the day when I'm off and they're at school, but then I end up arguing the toss on here instead .

DLA is still under review . The process takes forever.

I really hope it gets sorted quickly for you TS.
That's the thing austerity to me it lazy economics as it's all about clawing back the most amount of money in the shortest time....But how viable is that?

The debt has doubled, people are under increasing pressure, wages have stagnated, productivity affected due to overwork and/or stress, MOUNTAINS of personal debt,unemployment,homelessness,stress on councils, prisons, stress on public services, surge in specific crimes ( theft, burglary), welfare restrictions/reductions

This is all going to implode it is not sustainable, where is the long term plan for recovery?

Brexit?..... :/

[jet]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The debt has doubled, people are under increasing pressure, wages have stagnated, productivity affected due to overwork and/or stress, MOUNTAINS of personal debt,unemployment,homelessness,stress on councils, prisons, stress on public services, surge in specific crimes ( theft, burglary), welfare restrictions/reduction.

Brexit?..... :/

Jeez Kizzy, you're such a ray of sunshine.

[Parmy]

The tories must be applauded for filling up that empty envelope that labour kindly left them....well done tories.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

The tories must be applauded for filling up that empty envelope that labour kindly left them....well done tories.

We had a world crash for fs. It wasn't just the UK!

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

We had a world crash for fs. It wasn't just the UK!

Oh....well.
Thats even more remarkable...i must double my applause.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Chancellor will have lots to batter the labour front benches with. Should be a good budget for the Tories

[Withano]

Imagine they could have charged a little bit more tax for the higher earners, and they thought 'nah, there a load of disabled kids, and mentally ill patients who are being well greedy'

I mean, to answer the question in a word.. yes.. but its just a bit ****ed how we got there.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Imagine they could have charged a little bit more tax for the higher earners, and they thought 'nah, there a load of disabled kids, and mentally ill patients who are being well greedy'

I mean, to answer the question in a word.. yes.. but its just a bit ****ed how we got there.

Spot on.