[bots]

It was a publicity stunt pure and simple. Scotland have devolved powers, the can govern themselves how they want in their own parliament. At westminster, they have to fall in line with everyone else or pay the consequences.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't know much about politics these days as I actively avoid it all as I cannot be arsed and am politically homeless anyway. TS can you explain how there is clearly a power grab going on? Ignore me though if you cannot be bothered or find the request cheeky..just I know you will actually tell me the facts rather than some biased rubbish that i would find if I tried to search for it on google (and even then, I don't really know what stories I am searching for )

In basic terms, the government is covertly trying to use changes in law / policy that will happen through the Brexit process to remove or limit certain devolved powers that the Scottish government currently has, and to undermine the Scottish parliament. They want to push these through under the radar, undemocratically, with no real discussion or debate. Which makes the following point moot;

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It was a publicity stunt pure and simple. Scotland have devolved powers, the can govern themselves how they want in their own parliament. At westminster, they have to fall in line with everyone else or pay the consequences.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In basic terms, the government is covertly trying to use changes in law / policy that will happen through the Brexit process to remove or limit certain devolved powers that the Scottish government currently has, and to undermine the Scottish parliament. They want to push these through under the radar, undemocratically, with no real discussion or debate. Which makes the following point moot;

Ahh right. I think that the power the government gave to Scotland was always something they regretted, and it was clearly just done to 'keep the country together'. I am not surprised they are attempting to take it back. But so much **** goes on 'under the radar' in parliament, or is tried to be forced through with noone realizing until its too late. Its crap. Really crap and really dishonest. And surely not what the government is meant to be about, if something was above board and such, why the need to bury it until the last minute, or until after it has been done?

Thanks for the summary, much appreciated.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I disagree Arista, the issue isn't being given the attention that it deserves / requires and offering a token, throwaway nod to it and then making people seem "unreasonable" for standing up and saying "that it isn't good enough" is, in my opinion, a cynical and dangerous manipulation of the democratic process.

I watched it Live
he was given a Real Vote
but only at the conclusion of PMQ's
That would still make every Live TV news go over
15mins.


No one can Disrupt PMQ's
who ever is in power.

[Cherie]

Bye Bye

[Vicky.]

I don't know much about politics these days as I actively avoid it all as I cannot be arsed and am politically homeless anyway. TS can you explain how there is clearly a power grab going on? Ignore me though if you cannot be bothered or find the request cheeky..just I know you will actually tell me the facts rather than some biased rubbish that i would find if I tried to search for it on google (and even then, I don't really know what stories I am searching for )

[Livia]

Let's remember that the Scottish MPs were in Westminster, quite happy to vote on things affecting only England. They have no qualms about that.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Let's remember that the Scottish MPs were in Westminster, quite happy to vote on things affecting only England. They have no qualms about that.

Yeah I also agree with this though. If Scotland have their own powers, fair play to them, but there is no reason for them to vote on matters that do not affect them surely? Have always found that a bit weird

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yeah I also agree with this though. If Scotland have their own powers, fair play to them, but there is no reason for them to vote on matters that do not affect them surely? Have always found that a bit weird

The SNP are new to our Parliament
this is Wrong.


Next time ban him for a week


TS may not like that?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

The SNP are new to our Parliament
this is Wrong.


Next time ban him for a week


TS may not like that?

I'd be happiest if they banned Scottish MPs forever by giving us independence or full devolution . I'd rather we have nothing to do with the Westminster circus.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

Let's remember that the Scottish MPs were in Westminster, quite happy to vote on things affecting only England. They have no qualms about that.

This is a key point isn't it

[Livia]

You should have a referendum.

Oh no, wait....

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by Livia

Let's remember that the Scottish MPs were in Westminster, quite happy to vote on things affecting only England. They have no qualms about that.

The SNP don't actually!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Greg!

The SNP don't actually!

Why did they make such a fuss when Parliament allowed only Welsh and English MPs to vote on an English housing bill... the Scots decide their own housing bills in Scotland. The SNP were not happy though. They've wanted to vote on English matters ever since they got a large proportion of MPs into Parliament.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

You should have a referendum.

Oh no, wait....

Indeed we did have a referrendum, during which the case for "staying" was made by promising more devolved powers, and should not have been taken as an indication that Scottish people "want westminster rule" and as permission to reverse the progress of devolved powers. Which makes the fact that the current government is currently trying to lessen devolution "through the back door" a massive problem in terms of democracy... no?

There's also the fact that "staying in the UK is the only way to guarantee continued access to European markets!" was used as a stick constantly during the referendum campaign. That's a bit of a problem, too.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

You should have a referendum.

Oh no, wait....

[bots]

what people seemed to have missed is that it was the snp that walked out. They are not the sole representatives of Scots in Westminster. It was a party political move, nothing more.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what people seemed to have missed is that it was the snp that walked out. They are not the sole representatives of Scots in Westminster. It was a party political move, nothing more.

Hallelujah! I was about to post a similar comment myself.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what people seemed to have missed is that it was the snp that walked out. They are not the sole representatives of Scots in Westminster. It was a party political move, nothing more.

good point

[Livia]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what people seemed to have missed is that it was the snp that walked out. They are not the sole representatives of Scots in Westminster. It was a party political move, nothing more.

Excellent point.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

what people seemed to have missed is that it was the snp that walked out. They are not the sole representatives of Scots in Westminster. It was a party political move, nothing more.

I see your point being called "good" a lot here but... What do you actually mean? Of course it was a party political move? What else would it be? Why would the Scottish MPs from other parties join them? And why does it matter that they didn't?

[Greg!]

It was a publicity stunt but it worked. The UK wide media didn't give a **** about the power grab but now they're finally talking about it

[arista]

Originally Posted by Greg!

It was a publicity stunt but it worked. The UK wide media didn't give a **** about the power grab but now they're finally talking about it

Power Grab
how did it all go wrong?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Greg!

It was a publicity stunt but it worked. The UK wide media didn't give a **** about the power grab but now they're finally talking about it

Exactly . I do enjoy the way that "It's a publicity stunt!!" is used as an automatic negative. If you want something to get publicity, and engage in a publicity stunt, and then the thing that you wanted to get publicity... gets publicity... then it seems pretty clear that a "publicity stunt!!" was exactly the right course of action .

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Exactly . I do enjoy the way that "It's a publicity stunt!!" is used as an automatic negative. If you want something to get publicity, and engage in a publicity stunt, and then the thing that you wanted to get publicity... gets publicity... then it seems pretty clear that a "publicity stunt!!" was exactly the right course of action .

Well yeah. Its a shame though, that the main message of it seems diluted. People still don't seem to understand why they did it. I didn't until this thread though had seen a lot of stories about 'childish SNP walk out' and such.