[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Riley.

It’s just another thing in society that is trying to push homeless people out of sight so that people don’t have to “deal” with seeing it or recognise the real issue. These benches, spikes in doorways. Where do we want these people to go? It’s not going to make them go and live in a house. If the source of the problem isn’t being sorted out at least let the homeless be near people that can offer them food / money to survive.

Do you understand what parks are for?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Do you understand what parks are for?

For me it's playing Football and getting Ice Cream.

But personally I feel like we as a society should be helping the homeless, not hindering them even more.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Riley.

It’s just another thing in society that is trying to push homeless people out of sight so that people don’t have to “deal” with seeing it or recognise the real issue. These benches, spikes in doorways. Where do we want these people to go? It’s not going to make them go and live in a house. If the source of the problem isn’t being sorted out at least let the homeless be near people that can offer them food / money to survive.

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

Strawman argument.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

HOw about in your house or the shed in the garden. Not so keen on that no doubt.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' kind of attitude.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' kind of attitude.

Yeah, allowing people to sleep on public property suddenly becoming well you wouldn't let them sleep in your house is a straw man argument that holds no logic.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, allowing people to sleep on public property suddenly becoming well you wouldn't let them sleep in your house is a straw man argument that holds no logic.

Quite. I wonder if people would say 'oh so you agree with poor people getting benefits? Give them your whole wage each month or you are talking crap!' or something. 'Agree with foodbanks existing? You must donate your entire months shopping to one!' 'Don't want a power plant near a school? AGREE TO HAVE IT BUILT IN YOUR BACKYARD!!!' Seems to be only with homeless people that this argument applies, from what I have seen anyway.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I genuinely would not mind someone who is homeless sheltering in my shed. I don't know if I am odd on that or not.

When I was younger I (possibly foolishly, but luckily nothing went wrong) befriended some homeless guy and let him use my bath and that and my spare room for the night. I know I could have woken up and everything was gone but this didn't happen. He actually ended up being my lodger for a while, as once he actually had an address he managed to get a job..oddly enough, employers aren't too keen on employing homeless people. Obviously though, now with the kids I couldn't have random strangers staying here

I know my father in law lets homeless people sleep in the sheltered bit just outside his house too...theres kind of an alcove thing thats big enough to shelter maybe 4 people in the rain. They haven't used it as much mind recently, but in bad weather there are always some people sheltering there, day and night. They are so grateful to him for not looking at them like something on the bottom of his shoe or something, and if hes actually in making sandwiches and that he will make them something too..thats when hes not at work mind. In return, they have saved him fortunes because they will tell him/chase off any randomers trying to break into his work van when its parked, and stuff like that. He was getting robbed every few months at one stage and he cannot realistically empty it all of the time as there is nowhere to put the equipment when its not out on gigs as it takes up so much space. So he was just taking the hit each time, while the police ummed and ahhed about if they would actually bother to do anything, which always came down firmly on no

Also tbh I don't really get this 'if you wouldn't let homeless people into your house you can have no empathy!!!' kind of attitude.

Yeah, I would love to open my doors to someone like that. I've known family members to do the same and there are people who only just need short-term help and an address. It's hard for me to talk to anyone and not feel some sort of empathy. If I were single, I could maybe see myself taking someone in, but even then... it's not like that person is taking in a dog and giving it feed and water. It's a living breathing human-being, with issues, with likely needs, etc... and "low maintenance" isn't exactly part of human nature, but particularly not part of our culture... so when we take someone in, it may be someone who is all take take take... but even if not, it's still a person who has their own history and their own "baggage", and so it's not a simple thing like here's some food and shelter... we're in a sense rehabilitating a person from the ground up, and if that person doing the giving is an empathic person by nature, then it's very difficult to take that on without taking it all on so to speak without having good advice with dealing with that sort of living situation... that's why I give to the churches nearby that help to shelter them, they have a network of people who help also with counseling to help with drug assistance if there's an addiction issue... things that a typical homeowner wouldn't have the resources, connections, etc to be able to achieve... but yeah, having an address is the first step... we have a lot of properties here with secondary buildings (101a, 101b, etc), and sometimes people will "rent" or "lend" those out to someone in need... that I think is ideal if those peopel can manage separate separate spaces somehow, but that situation is not for everyone as you said...

The other part of that is if we take someone in randomly, we have no idea what "stage" they're in... if they're even prepared to get situated, so to speak.

Anyway, I just see it as a balancing act... we can't be too accomodating, because then we enable the issue. On the other hand, we can't also neglect the rest of the population to care for people who legitimately have no desire to get off the streets (and that is a problem in itself).

I had a great uncle that passed away many years ago, from assault (disagreement at a bar). Anyway, he was transient and my grandmother took him in... but no matter how much we tried to ground him, he would go back to his old ways. There were kids in the home, so it could only go on for so long before he had to move on, but we all felt bad we couldn't take him in permanently... even though it wasn't on any of his siblings what happened, we had other family members that couldn't be grounded. That was just their way... a lot of my family members are stubborn like this, and it makes both people very miserable to try to reason and shove their view of life onto the other...

Society as-it-is may work for most people, but it doesn't work for all, for any variety of reasons... but this is still the best civilization has ever had it. So makes no sense to inconvenience every one else for just a few... but I'm alright with individual establishments opening their doors to folk as Mokka mentioned, giving out free food.. they do a lot of that here. There are restaurants in this area where the food bank will go by and pick up left-overs... so it's not like there are not places for these folk to go. There is definitely a need.

I do not agree with a broad stroke approach with govt, bannings, particularly welfare expansion etc, because it influences the market(s) adversely and makes poverty cyclical. I think giving works better and individual needs are better met when the charity is on a one-on-one basis, either an individual, a business or an organization reaching out directly. It's more personable and there is more "giving" in the psychological/emotional sense as well, not just the financial giving tailored to whatever numbers the beaurocratic magicians come up with to "resolve" the problem.. it also doesn't account for "failure", i.e., when money just goes into someone who either isn't genuinely needed or is not the best use for it (like someone who is trading food for cash, etc).. When we pass laws on the other hand to encourage the problem, we're not really doing anything about it... we're more or less just giving society a nice permission slip to ignore the issue and just let the politicians handle it. I don't agree with that either... so balance is necessary in both these areas I think.

Anyway, as the question was phrased... I voted against a "ban", because banning anti-homeless benches won't end homelessness... it's just another emotional barrier imo.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Maru

we have a lot of properties here with secondary buildings (101a, 101b, etc), and sometimes people will "rent" or "lend" those out to someone in need... that I think is ideal if those peopel can manage separate separate spaces somehow, but that situation is not for everyone as you said...

Interesting, do you not have the landlords who all charge damage deposits, month rent in advance and that? Seems all our private landlords do that (I understand why, don't get me wrong) so it would be pretty impossible for someone who is on the streets to even get a property without a job as they just would not have a spare 1k+ lying around, else they wouldn't be on the streets to start with really Kind of ****ed up chicken and egg scenario. Need a home to get a job, but need a job to get a home.

Originally Posted by Maru

The other part of that is if we take someone in randomly, we have no idea what "stage" they're in... if they're even prepared to get situated, so to speak.

Yeah this is definitely an issue too. I could have had him refuse to leave, rob my house, cause a lot of trouble, even maybe attack me tbh. But as a 17 year old in her first house on her own I didn't really think too much about it. I had a spare room, seemed to get on fairly well with him, and it genuinely did seem like he was just down on his luck rather than had caused it for himself (something I believe is true of most homeless people, I think only a few are there through their own actions tbh) and I am generally really good at spotting liars and that.

Originally Posted by Maru

Society as-it-is may work for most people, but it doesn't work for all, for any variety of reasons... but this is still the best civilization has ever had it. So makes no sense to inconvenience every one else for just a few... but I'm alright with individual establishments opening their doors to folk as Mokka mentioned, giving out free food.. they do a lot of that here. There are restaurants in this area where the food bank will go by and pick up left-overs... so it's not like there are not places for these folk to go. There is definitely a need.

You know, I worked in a fair few food places. I have worked in Burger King, Peters Bakery, a sandwich place, a cafe and a chip shop. Every one of these places point blank refused to do anything except throw their leftovers from the day in the bin. Peters was the worst, I questioned why on earth such a rich chain (well, seems they weren't as rich as they seemed as they got taken over by someone else a few years later, I guess ) did this when there were homeless people/poor people who needed fed...it just seems so wasteful. Anyway, turns out apparently Peters head office or whatever actually send random inspectors out to check the BINS to make sure that all the stock left at the end of the day is actually thrown out. In addition to this, the bins were locked well away from everyone, and padlocked and such I got quite irate at the manager about this actually, (I am not sure that this is actually a real thing, about the inspectors or if he just made up crap on the spot to shut me up...either way, they do write down whats left at the end of the night on a checklist thing, then throw it in the bin though) it possibly contributed to me being sacked for being 'not a good fit and 'causing trouble'

[arista]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...d.php?t=294081

A 2015 solution to the mess we are in Matthew

[Matthew.]

i don’t know if anyone here has ever been homeless, but to those that are voting NO on the poll, if you were a homeless person, where would you go to sleep?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Matthew.

i don’t know if anyone here has ever been homeless, but to those that are voting NO on the poll, if you were a homeless person, where would you go to sleep?

There are plenty homeless shelter and charities that will help, no need to stink up public spaces and make women feel threatened

[Wizard.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

There are plenty homeless shelter and charities that will help, no need to stink up public spaces and make women feel threatened

How are women threatened? I think that’s quite sexist to say that. My brother is currently homesless, and yes he was put into a hostel but a man who lived in the hostel threatened to kill him for accidentally using his milk so he was too scared to stay there and now lives on the streets. Why do you think things are so black and white?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Riley.

How are women threatened? I think that’s quite sexist to say that. My brother is currently homesless, and yes he was put into a hostel but a man who lived in the hostel threatened to kill him for accidentally using his milk so he was too scared to stay there and now lives on the streets. Why do you think things are so black and white?

And why do you think that a park should be violated by a few people. Its a park for people to enjoy and not to sleep in.

Its not hard to understand.

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Wizard.]

And actually I see young people destroy parks and intimidate people a lot more than I have ever seen homeless people do.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Riley.

And actually I see young people destroy parks and intimidate people a lot more than I have ever seen homeless people do.

true, but sometimes with graffiti they also create nice art in parks

[bots]

these are public benches, not homeless benches. The fact that some homeless people try and sleep on them, doesn't mean that is what they are there for. Also there are many more homeless than single occupancy park benches, so its pointless anyway.

[Vicky.]

I don't have as much of an issue with these benches as I do with those horrific spikes that they put under sheltered areas.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A Bournemouth council spokesman said: “As a council, we need to maintain a careful balance between our responsibility to the wider public to ensure that amenities are available to them, and our duty of care to vulnerable members of our community, including people rough sleeping.

“Changes were made to a small number of benches in very specific locations in the town centre several months ago, and only following numerous complaints by members of the public and local traders. The complaints related to a number of the benches being unavailable to members of the public throughout the day due to people lying on them during the daytime.”

The council added it provided a “wide range of services for homeless people”, including 150 hostel beds and a “rough sleeper assertive outreach team”.

Well done Bournemouth council

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8186121.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes those. ****ing disgusting tbh.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes those. ****ing disgusting tbh.

Id like to get some installed in the chat thread

[Maru]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Someone is a fan of platformers

[Cherie]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...anti-homeless/


Pop superstar Ed Sheeran, who spent nights sleeping rough on the streets of London early in his career, has won planning permission to install “anti-homeless” railings outside his £8m London home.

The 27-year old singer is now authorised to install pedestrian gates and cast iron railings outside his converted Victorian brickworks in Kensington and Chelsea, which will "prevent opportunities for rough sleeping" according to his planning agent.

good ol Ed