[Garfie]

To me, Sally was in the wrong here. Her comments did come across as borderline racism. The comment about the turban was cringeworthy. And Sally has made too many comments that imply exactly what Hardeep is suggesting.

I'm not a massive fan of Hardeep, but I do understand him taking offence, and the fact that all the housemates shouted him down when they have not been on the receiving end of racism made it worse.

Having said that, Hardeep could have handled it better but I get the fact that his own experience of life has made him sensitive, and I think he walks away as he doesn't feel he can be heard even when he tries to explain things. I just wish he wouldn't apologise when it should have been Sally apologising.

I do wonder if Sally might have been evicted had this been aired yesterday. It's certainly changed the order that I now want the remaining housemates to be evicted.

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by Garfie

To me, Sally was in the wrong here. Her comments did come across as borderline racism. The comment about the turban was cringeworthy. And Sally has made too many comments that imply exactly what Hardeep is suggesting.

I'm not a massive fan of Hardeep, but I do understand him taking offence, and the fact that all the housemates shouted him down when they have not been on the receiving end of racism made it worse.

Having said that, Hardeep could have handled it better but I get the fact that his own experience of life has made him sensitive, and I think he walks away as he doesn't feel he can be heard even when he tries to explain things. I just wish he wouldn't apologise when it should have been Sally apologising.

I do wonder if Sally might have been evicted had this been aired yesterday. It's certainly changed the order that I now want the remaining housemates to be evicted.

This is probably my answer

[tiger_greengrass]

Originally Posted by Garfie

To me, Sally was in the wrong here. Her comments did come across as borderline racism. The comment about the turban was cringeworthy. And Sally has made too many comments that imply exactly what Hardeep is suggesting.

I'm not a massive fan of Hardeep, but I do understand him taking offence, and the fact that all the housemates shouted him down when they have not been on the receiving end of racism made it worse.

Having said that, Hardeep could have handled it better but I get the fact that his own experience of life has made him sensitive, and I think he walks away as he doesn't feel he can be heard even when he tries to explain things. I just wish he wouldn't apologise when it should have been Sally apologising.

I do wonder if Sally might have been evicted had this been aired yesterday. It's certainly changed the order that I now want the remaining housemates to be evicted.

How do you know they haven't been on the receiving end of racism? Do you know them personally?

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by tiger_greengrass

How do you know they haven't been on the receiving end of racism? Do you know them personally?

What does that matter? The important thing is that they know Hardeep has been and Sally still went ahead with her careless generalisations

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by tiger_greengrass

How do you know they haven't been on the receiving end of racism? Do you know them personally?

Obviously not. However, logic would suggest that as white Brits in Britain it is much less likely, and even if they have been for any reason, the degree would be miniscule compared to someone of a different race, colour and religion, like Hardeep.

And, yes, I realise that Ryan has some Indian ancestry, but without being made aware of that, it is not immediately recognisable. And, yes, Kirstie is American, but again she is white, and comes from a country where racism is strongly focused on black people and ethnic minorities.

I think the answers to the questions posed are pretty self explanatory and obvious. History and actual statistics should give us a good indication of the likelihood of the remaining housemates having been victims of racism to the degree that Hardeep would have experienced it.

[Jase.]

Sally hissing "He can go **** himself" when H left the room showed which out of the two of them has class.

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by Jase.

Sally hissing "He can go **** himself" when H left the room showed which out of the two of them has class.

And she said it just after a simple question by him about her suitcase, I mean what

[Jase.]

Originally Posted by Epic.

And she said it just after a simple question by him about her suitcase, I mean what

She's vile, hen. Bloody vile!

[Garfie]

I don't believe for one moment that, even if she doesn't understand the religious significance of Hardeep's turban, that Sally didn't know what it is called. How can she correctly refer to him as a Sikh- the most obvious sign of identity being the turban- without being able to refer to a turban correctly.......? That just doesn't add up for me.

Even giving her the benefit of the doubt, and assuming she didn't know, to refer to it as that thing he wears on his head was totally disrespectful.

The more I think about Sally and her actions throughout this series, the more I think her comments do have racist undertones, which I think she attempts to mask by pleading innocence.

[poppsywoppsy]

No one in that house thought Sally was being racist.

Kirstie spoke very clearly to Hardeep about it, explained how the housemates felt about his allegation and he rescinded his remarks.

They were actually there and witnessed it all.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

No one in that house thought Sally was being racist.

Kirstie spoke very clearly to Hardeep about it, explained how the housemates felt about his allegation and he rescinded his remarks.

They were actually there and witnessed it all.

Just because no one in the house thought Sally was being racist, it doesn't mean they were right. They are just a very small handful of people.

And just because Hardeep rescinded his comments, and apologised, doesn't mean it wasn't racist or that he didn't feel on the receiving end of racism. Sometimes, when you feel that everyone is against you and that you are banging your head against a brick wall, it is easier and simpler to give in, just to keep the peace, particularly when you are contained within a very limited space.

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Just because no one in the house thought Sally was being racist, it doesn't mean they were right. They are just a very small handful of people.

And just because Hardeep rescinded his comments, and apologised, doesn't mean it wasn't racist or that he didn't feel on the receiving end of racism. Sometimes, when you feel that everyone is against you and that you are banging your head against a brick wall, it is easier and simpler to give in, just to keep the peace, particularly when you are contained within a very limited space.

What you have not addressed is the intent to be racist.

Hardeep has violated every other housemates space with his breaking wind, rudeness and racist allegations.

If an unmeaning remark can be judged racist, then Hardeep is just as guilty at times with his many nasty jibes at white men.

Yet not one of them has made as much about his colour as he has himself. In fact they have bent over backwards not to exclude him, yet it was he who would walk off after dropping insults.

He insulted their intelligence constantly, yet an unthinking careless remarks got called out for being "borderline racist"

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

What you have not addressed is the intent to be racist.

Hardeep has violated every other housemates space with his breaking wind, rudeness and racist allegations.

If an unmeaning remark can be judged racist, then Hardeep is just as guilty at times with his many nasty jibes at white men.

Yet not one of them has made as much about his colour as he has himself. In fact they have bent over backwards not to exclude him, yet it was he who would walk off after dropping insults.

He insulted their intelligence constantly, yet an unthinking careless remarks got called out for being "borderline racist"

I have addressed intent in previous posts, so didn't want to repeat.

Ironically, I am not a Hardeep fan, and agree with you that he has been too heavy and intense when it comes to racism, sexism, etc. I do believe that, on many occasions, he has chosen to play devil's advocate just to trigger a reaction in others, and I can understand why housemates might find this annoying.

I also find him a little self-pitying and insincere at times.

However, I do believe he was right in referring to Sally's comments as borderline racist. There have just been too many examples of it. Obviously, none of us can get inside Sally's mind in order to know her intent, so all any of us can do is give our own impressions and interpretations of her motives.

I'm not going to repeat previous posts- where my reasons are explained- but my impression is that Sally's comments have undertones of racism.

[Marsh.]

DON'T come for a woman's bunions.

[clairefromsomewhereinnort]

It was based on initial "use thing on your head as bandaging" which hard to believe Sally didn t realise that was offensive before she said it, as i ve said in my new thread. Also i ve said, it must have been hard for him to trust her anyway after her completely turning about the intention behind his supportive bunion remark and plotting off back of it for days before.

[Aaliyah]

Sally all the way. Hardeep playing the race card ao glad hes out

[Slevin]

more on Hadeep side than Sally though i think both handled it wrong in different ways. what im more baffled by is how everyone doesnt get that someone saying something racist/borderline racist isnt saying they are racist. they just didnt want to hear that part from him. its like they never heard of ignorance.

[wendywillow]

i was on sallys side (nothing she said was racist or "borderline" lol) till she erupted in tears and tried to make a meal of it, they were both acting the fool, i think hardeep responded well when Kirstie called him out on the
dropping bombs and the leaving part'

[Aaliyah]

I agree that Sally was trying to goad hardeep by saying 'that thing on your head'. She clearly knows what a turban is. Also last night she first said 'you're too brown', then tried to backtrack in front of everyone that she said to everyone they need talc powder, she didn't. She was patronising him and sneakily antagonising Hardeep by saying 'that thing on your head', regardless of whether or not she knew what it was (she more than likely did know it was a turban for **** sake), she will have known it is important to Hardeep and wouldn't want to use it in some game as a bandage.

Disgusting behaviour from Sally and as everyone knows I am NOT a fan of Hardeep.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Aaliyah

I agree that Sally was trying to goad hardeep by saying 'that thing on your head'. She clearly knows what a turban is. Also last night she first said 'you're too brown', then tried to backtrack in front of everyone that she said to everyone they need talc powder, she didn't. She was patronising him and sneakily antagonising Hardeep by saying 'that thing on your head', regardless of whether or not she knew what it was (she more than likely did know it was a turban for **** sake), she will have known it is important to Hardeep and wouldn't want to use it in some game as a bandage.

Disgusting behaviour from Sally and as everyone knows I am NOT a fan of Hardeep.

I agree with you and yes she did say "You're too brown" then lied that she had said it

[Aaliyah]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I agree with you and yes she did say "You're too brown" then lied that she had said it

It hurts me to say it because I didn't like Hardeep as a housemate but it was never because of race. Sally is very calculating and sneaky, I've massively gone off her. I can't believe I voted for her against Hardeep, I never would have had I known she is in fact a closet racist.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Aaliyah

It hurts me to say it because I didn't like Hardeep as a housemate but it was never because of race. Sally is very calculating and sneaky, I've massively gone off her. I can't believe I voted for her against Hardeep, I never would have had I known she is in fact a closet racist.

I was 2 ways with Hardeep one minute hated him then next minute felt really sorry for him as they did ostracise him ,but he was right about Sally ,she's an awful woman

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

I was 2 ways with Hardeep one minute hated him then next minute felt really sorry for him as they did ostracise him ,but he was right about Sally ,she's an awful woman

Hardeep would insult them and walk off and sit by himself. Many times it was shown how they went and spoke to him to get involved.

Hardeep chose to isolate himself, he bragged about upsetting them as he thought he was being clever. He was his own worst enemy many times.

He even said white housemates were the KKK how's that for a racist remark but they didn't take umbrage with him.

[Parmy]

Vile woman.

[Chero]

Maybe Hardeep should have let it slide, but if someone feels offended, the person who offended them should apologize. Sally was wrong. Sally is the one who blew it out of proportion.