[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema

[Oliver_W]

Didn't the BBC set diversity quotas a few years back?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Didn't the BBC set diversity quotas a few years back?

Increasing the representation in front of and behind the camera is positive?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Increasing the representation in front of and behind the camera is positive?

It's not positive or negative, just something that is.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's not positive or negative, just something that is.

Nope, definitely positive. Diversity increases the amount of different perspectives/stories making it to screen. Nobody wants to have the same meal three times a day, every day.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Nope, definitely positive. Diversity increases the amount of different perspectives/stories making it to screen. Nobody wants to have the same meal three times a day, every day.

If a producer comes up with a good story and it gets made, then sure. But this shouldn't happen because higher-ups mandated their position into existence. If it happens through a meritocracy, then great!

[Ammi]

...so is it a transitioning character in Ghost Shell... and she pulled out of playing the part..?..


..I don’t know, I guess transgender is still quite controversial to some of society..so it would seem that the most important thing would be to have an actor who could break through that in terms of their relatability/popularity...the part would need someone who would greatly inspire thoughts and have the audience feel totally invested in the character being portrayed...we had that with Danish Girl...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.

All of this tbh.

[armand.kay]

Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

Well, I think that's the point, it entirely depends on the project/story. It shouldn't be a blanket rule that cis play cis, trans play trans, gay play gay etc. It should be down to the individual project and what is the best way to tell the story.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well, I think that's the point, it entirely depends on the project/story. It shouldn't be a blanket rule that cis play cis, trans play trans, gay play gay etc. It should be down to the individual project and what is the best way to tell the story.

it would be cute if it worked the other way round but how many studios are rushing to give trans people roles meant for cisgender people? I don't really care about heterosexuals playing gay because while it's not equal it still happens the other way round frequently enough that it doesn't bother me at all.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

Depends on the project, as it's been said it's not a blanket rule. Sometimes the best choice will be a trans actor, other times it won't. What's more important is the ability to embody the story and struggle of their characters and great actors can do that regardless of their gender status.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Depends on the project, as it's been said it's not a blanket rule. Sometimes the best choice will be a trans actor, other times it won't. What's more important is the ability to embody the story and struggle of their characters and great actors can do that regardless of their gender status.

I agree to some extent except that imo the only time I can see the need for a cis actor is if its a transition story because I honestly can't see any justification for not hiring a trans actor to play a trans person whos already gone through their transition. There's already not many opportunities in Hollywood for trans people so hiring a cisgender person to convey their stories is just a slap in the face to the trans community.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

I agree to some extent except that imo the only time I can see the need for a cis actor is if its a transition story because I honestly can't see any justification for not hiring a trans actor to play a trans person whos already gone through their transition. There's already not many opportunities in Hollywood for trans people so hiring a cisgender person to convey their stories is just a slap in the face to the trans community.

I agree with you but then again I'd also like to see trans actors get roles that aren't trans characters as well. It's a complaint I've seen often from the community that trans actors are typically only considered to play trans roles so I think it's a matter of give and take. It would be preferable to hire a trans actor for a trans role but you don't want to go too far in one direction and enforce a view point that trans actors can ONLY play trans roles.

[Northern Monkey]

All roles should be open to any actor or actress as long as they’re right for the part.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.

...oh sorry, I think I got completely wrong what the thread is.....I need to shake myself awake this morning...hmmmm, with Love Simon for instance...?....I can see how sexuality wouldn’t be important for the part, it was left open for any sexuality to play...I haven’t seen the movie but that’s what I’m thinking...?...and yeah in an ideal movie world, as it were...that would be the way...but is it also about the limitation that some actors feel in that they’re only being cast in certain roles, which might feel to them as a bit ‘stereotypical’....because the diversity just isn’t being written or if it is then it’s just not being open to the same consideration for all actors....?...which is what some in The movie industry have been saying for many years...

[bots]

The acting profession has been an unfair playground for generations, this is but one small facet of a much larger issue. Logic would suggest that the best person qualified for the role would get it, but that rarely (if ever) happens. It's always about who is the biggest box office draw or who is "best friends" with the director etc. I find it difficult to take the acting profession seriously until those issues are sorted out.

[Ammi]

...I think it’s progressing though in that there are more and more ‘unknowns’ cast in big roles and those movies are showing huge successes ...which encourages that progression to continue...but I guess, is it more that Scarlett for instance and so, so many other actresses could be cast for so many varied roles, including transgender...but would a transgender person have the same scope or would they be pigeon-holed more..?...

[Livia]

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Livia

Oh leave her alone. My favourite Shakespeare play is Henry V - a white man. The best version I ever saw was when Henry was played by black actor Adrian Lester. I don't recall any backlash about a white man being played by a black man and it took absolutely nothing away from the play.

Theatre is very different from film and tv.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Theatre is very different from film and tv.

Why is it. In what way is it.

What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Livia

What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

I think in some cases it should be "allowed" to ignore quotas.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

Why is it. In what way is it.



What disturbs me armand, and I'd be really interested in your reaction to this... what do you think about the way black people are being drafted in to play parts in Victorian dramas... and they're shown in positions of power... policemen, I've seen a black actor playing one of Queen Victoria's Household Cavalry (I don't they really had a black soldier till the 1980s). Do you think that helps with ethnic diversity, or do you think it might give some people the idea that black people have always be able to hold those kinds of positions and what's all the fuss about?

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

Yeah, Royal courts back then were probably about as diverse as ... Royal courts now, hahaha. Even less so!

But the streets? My mum likes to karp on about "Black Nancys". Nancy could have been black, she was a street thief, not rich or anything. Now on the other hand, I'm of the firm belief Oliver should look like me when I was young, if I'd have lived in a workhouse.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes I personally do think that period film and television should be race-accurate because let's face it, not everyone realises that there's "creative license" going on in fictional media and so are liable to not realise how serious segregation was in the past, if they're frequently seeing integration in stories set in those eras.

On the other hand, I have (at some point, don't quote me) read articles that have suggested that there was a lot MORE racial diversity "on the everyday streets" of Victorian London, for example, than is often shown in film which portrays Victorian London as being nearly 100% white... And thus creates a false impression of there having been a more recent "massive influx of immigration" than is really the case. Big cities like London have always been racially diverse by the numbers, just not in terms of distribution of wealth and power.

I know there were black people in London in Victorian times. And Chinese and Asian and all sorts of other nationalities. I come from the area of London's Royal Docks and the area was multicultural - to an extent - since the docks opened in the mid 1800s. My point is that sometimes black people are portrayed in roles that would not have been open to them. I think it gives a wrong very impression, like suddenly the reality of their lives has to be changed for the sake of political correctness. People's struggles should be remembered. The Holocaust is remembered so that it never happens again. Everybody's struggle should be remembered not sanitised. .