[user104658]

Well. To be controversial ... what IS a little reported scientific fact, is that grass creates more oxygen than the same area of trees. It's not exact, but it's often (falsely) reported that if an area of the Amazon is deforested then the world loses that area of oxygen creation / CO2 removal. If the area is replaced by grass - e.g. cattle grazing - then that's just not necessarily the case.

There ARE a whole host of things we lose when areas of the Amazon are destroyed of course but the "we need the oxygen" argument is over-played and inaccurate.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Well. To be controversial ... what IS a little reported scientific fact, is that grass creates more oxygen than the same area of trees. It's not exact, but it's often (falsely) reported that if an area of the Amazon is deforested then the world loses that area of oxygen creation / CO2 removal. If the area is replaced by grass - e.g. cattle grazing - then that's just not necessarily the case.

There ARE a whole host of things we lose when areas of the Amazon are destroyed of course but the "we need the oxygen" argument is over-played and inaccurate.

That's a very dubious scientific fact ts.. leaves absorb CO2 and expel oxygen, trees leaves have a larger surface area for the area they inhabit than grass surely?
Also if the grass is for grazing how will it absorb anything if it's being eaten and farted out as methane?
Would hardly be a lush meadow would it?
Did the Brazilian govt produce the science there by any chance? :/

[Cherry Christmas]

For me the argument is the host of flora and fauna that are lost, and any subsequent habitat so its more or less ensured animals at least wont return for some time, to set these fires deliberately is beyond the pale

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's a very dubious scientific fact ts.. leaves absorb CO2 and expel oxygen, trees leaves have a larger surface area for the area they inhabit than grass surely?
Also if the grass is for grazing how will it absorb anything if it's being eaten and farted out as methane?
Would hardly be a lush meadow would it?
Did the Brazilian govt produce the science there by any chance? :/

It's not dubious, like I said there are OTHER environmental considerations (huge ones) with grass vs. trees but the one that is thrown around all the time in the press / social media etc. is oxygen production... that we would lose 20% of the world's oxygen generation if the Amazon was completely replaced by farming / grazing... and it's just flat out false.

On the other hand, the ocean creates 50% of the planet's oxygen supply and we're slowly killing that, too... and that's not being replaced by anything at all. If the oceans die, we drop 50%, which is sort of terrifying really.

And I think grass removes less CO2 than an equivalent patch of rainforest... and CO2 in the atmosphere is raising the ocean's acidity levels... so I guess the numbers get even more complicated there, with the destruction also having other indirect effects.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not dubious, like I said there are OTHER environmental considerations (huge ones) with grass vs. trees but the one that is thrown around all the time in the press / social media etc. is oxygen production... that we would lose 20% of the world's oxygen generation if the Amazon was completely replaced by farming / grazing... and it's just flat out false.

On the other hand, the ocean creates 50% of the planet's oxygen supply and we're slowly killing that, too... and that's not being replaced by anything at all. If the oceans die, we drop 50%, which is sort of terrifying really.

And I think grass removes less CO2 than an equivalent patch of rainforest... and CO2 in the atmosphere is raising the ocean's acidity levels... so I guess the numbers get even more complicated there, with the destruction also having other indirect effects.

How is it flat out false?.. as said the only argument I've seen for grass over trees is the risk fire poses to trees releasing their carbon back into the atmosphere..it was nothing to do with oxygen production. Where's the evidence?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How is it flat out false?.. as said the only argument I've seen for grass over trees is the risk fire poses to trees releasing their carbon back into the atmosphere..it was nothing to do with oxygen production. Where's the evidence?

https://sciencing.com/how-much-oxyge...-12222682.html

here's the evidence, how grass produces oxygen

[arista]

[arista]

[Oliver_W]

Trees are important, and we need to preserve green areas in the UK as well. While our greenery might not contribute to the worldwide oxygen content, we still need to stop ruining the green areas we have with housing developments, shopping areas, etc.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Trees are important, and we need to preserve green areas in the UK as well. While our greenery might not contribute to the worldwide oxygen content, we still need to stop ruining the green areas we have with housing developments, shopping areas, etc.

Not just that, we need to plant trees.
Ireland is doing that. From 5% of tree covered area they are up to 11% and carrying on until they have 18% coverage

[Cherry Christmas]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Not just that, we need to plant trees.
Ireland is doing that. From 5% of tree covered area they are up to 11% and carrying on until they have 18% coverage

they want to stop descrating the peat bogs though.

[Parmy]

He's saying environmentalists started the fires.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

He's saying environmentalists started the fires.

The loggers are armed
that tells you he is taking over
and destroying the Amazon Rain Forrest

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Not just that, we need to plant trees.
Ireland is doing that. From 5% of tree covered area they are up to 11% and carrying on until they have 18% coverage

I agree with that, good for Ireland!

Originally Posted by parmnion

He's saying environmentalists started the fires.

The theory is that they did that to show how feeble the response would be.

[James]

NASA says that this year's fire activity in the Amazon is close to the average for the past 15 years.

Fires in Brazil



August 11, 2019JPEG



August 13, 2019JPEG

Editor’s Note: This story was updated on 22 August 2019 to clarify our data source.
In the Amazon rainforest, fire season has arrived. The*Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer*(MODIS) on NASA’s*Aquasatellite captured these images of several fires burning in the states of Rondônia, Amazonas, Pará, and Mato Grosso on August 11 and August 13, 2019.
In the Amazon region, fires are rare for much of the year because wet weather prevents them from starting and spreading. However, in July and August, activity typically increases due to the arrival of the dry season. Many people use fire to maintain farmland and pastures or to clear land for other purposes. Typically, activity peaks in early September and mostly stops by November.

As of August 16, 2019, an analysis of NASA satellite data indicated that total fire activity across the Amazon basin this year has been close to the average in comparison to the past 15 years. (The Amazon spreads across Brazil, Peru, Colombia, and parts of other countries.)

Though activity appears to be above average in the states of Amazonas and Rondônia, it has so far appeared below average in Mato Grosso and Pará, according to estimates from the*Global Fire Emissions Database,*a research project that compiles and analyzes NASA data. (Note that while the chart label says 2016, the 2019 data is listed on all of the plots as a green line. Roll your cursor over the green 2019 block below the plot to isolate the 2019 numbers.)

NASA Earth Observatory images by Lauren Dauphin, using MODIS data from*NASA EOSDIS/LANCE and GIBS/Worldview*and VIIRS data from*NASA EOSDIS/LANCE and GIBS/Worldview, and the*Suomi National Polar-orbiting Partnership. Caption by Adam Voiland.





References & Resources

Euronews (2019, August 12)*Brazil: State of Amazonas declares state of emergency over rising number of forest fires.*Accessed August 16, 2019.

Global Fire Emissions Database (2019, August 16)*Forecast.Accessed August 22, 2019.

Van Marle, M.J.E.*et al.*(2017)*Fire and deforestation dynamics in Amazonia (1973-2014).*Global Biochemical Cycles,*31 (1), 24-38.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/im...ires-in-brazil

[Nicky91]

what's been destroyed, you can add new plants to rebuild those sections of the amazon forest

what you can still save, you must save, this needs to be in the attention every single day

[UserSince2005]

having been to the amazon in 2016 living in the jungle with a local tribe for 3 nights, I must say it is a wonder of the world.

[James]

Here's more info. Brazil has more intense fires this year, since 2010, but less than the mid-2000s.

The Amazon in Brazil is on fire - how bad is it?
By The Visual and Data Journalism Team
BBC News
51 minutes ago


Thousands of fires are ravaging the Amazon rainforest in Brazil - the most intense blazes for almost a decade.

The northern states of Roraima, Acre, Rondônia and Amazonas have been particularly badly affected.

However, images purported to be of the fires - including some shared under the hashtag #PrayforAmazonas - have been shown to be decades old or not even in Brazil.

So what's actually happening and how bad are the fires?
There have been a lot of fires this year

Brazil has seen a record number of fires in 2019, Brazilian space agency data suggests.

The National Institute for Space Research (Inpe) says its satellite data shows an 85% increase on the same period in 2018.



The official figures show more than 75,000 forest fires were recorded in Brazil in the first eight months of the year - the highest number since 2013. That compares with 40,000 in the same period in 2018.

Forest fires are common in the Amazon during the dry season, which runs from July to October. They can be caused by naturally occurring events, such as by lightning strikes, but also by farmers and loggers clearing land for crops or grazing.



Activists say the anti-environment rhetoric of Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro has encouraged such tree-clearing activities.

In response, Mr Bolsonaro, a long-time climate change sceptic, accused non-governmental organisations of starting the fires themselves to damage his government's image.

He later said the government lacked the resources to fight the flames.


Most of the worst-affected regions are in the north of the country.

Roraima, Acre, Rondônia and Amazonas all saw a large percentage increase in fires when compared with the average across the last four years (2015-2018).



Roraima saw a 141% increase, Acre 138%, Rondônia 115% and Amazonas 81%. Mato Grosso do Sul, further south, saw a 114% increase.

Amazonas, the largest state in Brazil, has declared a state of emergency.


The fires are emitting large amounts of smoke and carbon

Plumes of smoke from the fires have spread across the Amazon region and beyond.

According to the Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service (Cams), a part of the European Union's Earth observation programme, the smoke has been travelling as far as the Atlantic coast.

It has even caused skies to darken in Săo Paulo - more than 2,000 miles (3,200km) away.


The fires have been releasing a large amount of carbon dioxide, the equivalent of 228 megatonnes so far this year, according to Cams, the highest since 2010.

They are also emitting carbon monoxide - a gas released when wood is burned and does not have much access to oxygen.

Maps from Cams show this carbon monoxide - toxic at high levels - being carried beyond South America's coastlines.



The Amazon basin - home to about three million species of plants and animals, and one million indigenous people - is crucial to regulating global warming, with its forests absorbing millions of tonnes of carbon emissions every year.

But when trees are cut or burned, the carbon they are storing is released into the atmosphere and the rainforest's capacity to absorb carbon emissions is reduced.

What's causing the fires?

The Amazon Environmental Research Institute (Ipam) has stated the recent increase in the number of fires in the Amazon is directly related to deliberate deforestation.

While the exact scale of deforestation in the rainforest will only be certain when 2019 figures are published at the end of the year, preliminary data suggests a significant rise.

The National Institute for Space Research (Inpe) tracks suspected deforestation in real-time using satellite data, sending out alerts to flag areas that may have been cleared.

Over 10,000 alerts were sent out in July alone.

Deforestation was 278% higher in July 2019 than in July 2018, according to Inpe.

How bad were fires in the previous years?

While the number of fires in Brazil is at its highest level for almost a decade, the data suggests that Brazil - and the wider Amazon region - may have experienced more intense burning in the past.

An analysis of NASA satellite data last week indicated that the total fire activity in 2019 across the Amazon, not just Brazil, is close to the average when compared with a longer 15 year period.

Looking specifically at Brazil, figures from Cams going back to 2003 show that the total CO2 equivalent emissions, used to measure of the amount and intensity of fire activity, are at their highest since 2010.

But according to the data, emissions in Brazil were higher in the mid-2000s, as the chart below indicates.



Other countries have also been affected by fires

A number of other countries in the Amazon basin - an area spanning 7.4m sq km (2.9 sq miles) - have also seen a high number of fires this year.

Venezuela has experienced the second-highest number, with more than 26,000 fires, with Bolivia coming in third, with more than 17,000.

The Bolivian government has hired a fire-fighting airtanker to help extinguish fires in the east of the country. They have so far spread across 2.3 sq miles (6 sq km) of forest and pasture.

Extra emergency workers have also been sent to the region, and sanctuaries are being set up for animals escaping the flames.

By Lucy Rodgers, Nassos Stylianou, Clara Guibourg and Mike Hills. Design by Mark Bryson.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-49433767

[UserSince2005]

Originally Posted by James

Here's more info. Brazil has more intense fires this year, since 2010, but less than the mid-2000s.

Exactly its a non new story to entertain the greta fan club

At the end of the day as long as our amazon packages keep getting delivered I really dont see the problem.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Exactly its a non new story to entertain the greta fan club

At the end of the day as long as our amazon packages keep getting delivered I really dont see the problem.

i see many solutions to this problem

security system, create a sort territory fence for protected eco systems, with security camera's on that fence, so if these farmers, ranchers then try something again you got that on camera and security/police can intervene immediately


amazon rainforest should rightfully be a protected eco system, everything what is damaged now, you can make green again, ''making the world green, cooling down the planet'' is a advertisement here in my country btw, which is for africa but it should count for this rainforest too

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Exactly its a non new story to entertain the greta fan club

At the end of the day as long as our amazon packages keep getting delivered I really dont see the problem.

Leave the poor girl alone

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Just because shes autistic as **** doesn't make her a poor girl. she's actually a very smart girl with evil plans.

sure Jan

[bots]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Just because shes autistic as **** doesn't make her a poor girl. she's actually a very smart girl with evil plans.

people are entitled to be passionate about a cause just as much as others are entitled not to agree with it. It's not like the girl is doing anything disruptive or illegal.

[Twosugars]

France and Ireland will veto a trade agreement with Brazil, Mercosur
And

The German government has not so far mentioned the fate of Mercosur, but it has – along with Norway – halted donations to the Brazilian government’s Amazon fund.

So theres already an amazon fund and western countries donate to it. And yet bolsanaro removed all protections. He's taking the piss

[Twosugars]

A teenage girl has become a hate figure for the loony right, how pathetic.
Aaron Banks, farage's money bags, went as far as to suggest a well timed freak yachting accident.
What a big man...
Argue your case with science and evidence if you have any, not hate against a teenager ffs