[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Retroman

So yea, in short...

1. Don't call me ignorant because I class unusual people differently than you do. You're entitled to label people as freaks, but the next time you call me ignorant you may want to add a little substance to your claim.

2. None of these people are so abnormal that they should be labelled freaks. They're all relatively normal if anything...with one or two major character traits.

So first:

1. Nonody gives me orders, even my parents, so it won't start with you right ?

2. And I don't know what you have watched during 13 weeks in 2006 but obviously it wasn't Big Brother, I know someone who has tourettes and he's not like Pete, he does work, he's simple, funny and not pathetic and ridiculous as Pete, it's jsut his character.
Nikki, Sam, Pete and Shabbaz did admit they have problems so I just say what they said after all, don't blame me for that.

[Retroman]

Originally posted by sunshine30
So first:

1. Nonody gives me orders, even my parents, so it won't start with you right ?

2. And I don't know what you have watched during 13 weeks in 2006 but obviously it wasn't Big Brother, I know someone who has tourettes and he's not like Pete, he does work, he's simple, funny and not pathetic and ridiculous as Pete, it's jsut his character.
Nikki, Sam, Pete and Shabbaz did admit they have problems so I just say what they said after all, don't blame me for that.

Noddy gives you orders? well ok...

Edited by Sunny_01 - please follow forum rules and report offensive posts rather than retaliate

But ok, you can call me ignorant without substance if you really wish to rebel against what I said in the name of being awkward =] im fine with that...but I don't think it'll do you any favours.

And I think you just don't plain like some of them, such as Pete for not working, being pathetic and ridiculous.
So you class him as a freak more for insultive purposes, not because he's an actual freak.

However, this is an argument between my opinion on how they're all just normal people with certain character traits.

And your opinion on how they're just plain freaks.

So this argument won't actually go anywhere, it'll just be my view against yours.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Retroman

Noddy gives you orders? well ok...
Perhaps you're one of these so called freaks yourself ^_^ lol.

Maybe because I'm a mature boy, because my parents do trust me, maybe because I'm responsible and I give order as I'm the President of plenty of things so it's quite normal that nobody gives me orders don't you think ?

And actually, I assume what I said so you can blame me for what you want, I don't really mind at all.

Well I think the argument is over.

[Retroman]

Originally posted by sunshine30

Maybe because I'm a mature boy, because my parents do trust me, maybe because I'm responsible and I give order as I'm the President of plenty of things so it's quite normal that nobody gives me orders don't you think ?

And actually, I assume what I said so you can blame me for what you want, I don't really mind at all.

Well I think the argument is over.

Mature boy?
Parents trust?
Responsible?
President of plenty of things?

So you're a boy with his parents trust who's the president of some kind of club/ school related thing most likely.
With some kind of "I don't take orders from anybody because im too good" complex.

>_<
I really don't see what this has to do with things, but since im a man with a job, a car, with true responsibilities who has lived on his own..i'll choose not to take notice of what you just said.

Unless you wish to change this into a "who's the coolest" competition. Which may go against your claim of being a mature boy

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Retroman

Mature boy?
Parents trust?
Responsible?
President of plenty of things?

So you're a boy with his parents trust who's the president of some kind of club/ school related thing most likely.

>_<
I really don't see what this has to do with things, but since Im a man with a job, a car, with true responsibilities who has lived on his own..i'll choose not to take notice of what you just said.

Unless you wish to change this into a "who's the coolest" competition. Which may go against your claim of being a mature boy

You don't see how it has to do with things ? You gave me orders so I replied nothing wrong isn"t it ?
Don't worry I have a job too, I'm not the President of plenty of clubs but some important instutitions for young people in my city, just the second of France.
So if you don't take notice, why do you open your mouth then ? That's quite ridiculous but well you are like you are.

And now there is no competition about "who's the coolest" don't worry even if I would beat you .
And ask all the members here they would reply that I'm a mature man, don't forget I'm a old member, you don't know anything about me.

[Retroman]

Originally posted by sunshine30
You don't see how it has to do with things ? You gave me orders so I replied nothing wrong isn"t it ?
Don't worry I have a job too, I'm not the President of plenty of clubs but some important instutitions for young people in my city, just the second of France.
So if you don't take notice, why do you open your mouth then ? That's quite ridiculous but well you are like you are.

And now there is no competition about "who's the coolest" don't worry even if I would beat you .
And ask all the members here they would reply that I'm a mature boy, don't forget I'm a old member, you don't know anything about me.

So you're a boy who lives with his parents, and is the president of an important institution for young people..who is apparently cooler than me =] and likes to tell me how he's got his parents trust in the middle of an argument.

Indeed, you do sound very mature *long silence*

And not take notice was a polite way of saying i'll take your statement as void =] whether I choose to reply to it or not is irrelevant.

It's obvious by your reply towards me telling you not to call me ignorant that you're immature. With your whole "don't give me orders, im president and I have my parents trust" speech.

This is getting very petty, mainly thanks to you dragging this into a "im a mature, trustworthy boy so ner" area.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Retroman

So you're a boy who lives with his parents, and is the president of an important institution for young people..who is apparently cooler than me =] and likes to tell me how he's got his parents trust in the middle of an argument.

Indeed, you do sound very mature *long silence*

And not take notice was a polite way of saying i'll take your statement as void =] whether I choose to reply to it or not is irrelevant.

It's obvious by your reply towards me telling you not to call me ignorant that you're immature. With your whole "don't give me orders, Im president and I have my parents trust" speech.

This is getting very petty, mainly thanks to you dragging this into a "im a mature, trustworthy boy so ner" area.

OMG you are so boring mate I don't even enjoy arguing with you.
Well end of, continue if you feel good like that.

Back to topic then, Red, I replied to your question and I confirm what I said.

[Retroman]

And with that abrupt end to the argument i'll assume I won =]
As I never fall for the whole "OMG you are so boring mate I don't even enjoy arguing with you." line, especially after so many replies to my posts. Of course you don't enjoy arguing with me, you lost.

Also, im not your mate.
Nor would I ever be mates with someone who makes statements such as "I don't take orders because my mummy and daddy trust me and im president!" lol

Nevermind Pete being ridiculous, you've taken it to a whole new level.

I'll be on my way...

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Retroman


Pete had terrettes, I don't think you can label him as a freak.
Nikki had temper tantrums and reverted to child behaviour, but she's nothing completely out of the ordinary.
And Im pretty sure nobody else had any major character traits that made them such a freak that they don't fit into todays society.

Yet both of those people were willing to sell themselves, and their conditions to producers looking for something to grab the attention of a tv audience willing to spend money on them, and stretch the envelope for a tired game show.

They were willing to ***** themselves and play on their "handicaps" for "fame and celebrity"

I would regard what they did as played up and played upon to win a game show, as such I find that most certainly freakish, as the dictionary says, "markedly strange or abnormal"

To be so desperate for "fame", to me is pathetic.

[Red Moon]

Before I add more to the debate I need to put my moderators hat on and remind people we don't allow people to make personal insults towards each other or make accusations against members which are false. Personal remarks lower the level of the debate to that of the play ground. What ever age we are we are all allowed to debate a subject without fear of attack.

Please remember this when posting replies. It could save you from getting warning and a temporary ban.

All done now on with the debate

[Retroman]

Originally posted by spacebandit
Yet both of those people were willing to sell themselves, and their conditions to producers looking for something to grab the attention of a tv audience willing to spend money on them, and stretch the envelope for a tired game show.

They were willing to ***** themselves and play on their "handicaps" for "fame and celebrity"

I would regard what they did as played up and played upon to win a game show, as such I find that most certainly freakish, as the dictionary says, "markedly strange or abnormal"

To be so desperate for "fame", to me is pathetic.

Im not sure if cashing in on your handicaps is all that "abnormal" anymore to be fair.

I think it's wrong, but as for normal/abnormal..im not sure.

I think we've got to distinguish the difference between us disliking them/what they do, and being actual freaks.

If we're going to critisise their actions then i'll be first to jump in and contribute to how awful some of their behaviour is...
But I think "freaks" is a slightly different matter.

[Red Moon]

Right I want to stick this article in. It's about BB7 and the housemates that should never have been in the house.

Three Big Brother contestants should not have taken part, says psychologist

At least three of the contestants on Big Brother should have been barred from taking part on the grounds of emotional vulnerability, it was claimed last night.

A frenzied Pete Bennett after winning the show

After a series that was punctuated by emotional outbursts and contestants leaving the show, Cynthia McVey, a senior lecturer on psychology at Glasgow Caledonian University, called on Channel 4 to tighten up its selection procedures.

The programme's finale on Friday attracted 8.2 million viewers but some were shocked by the frenzied reaction of Pete Bennett, who suffers from Tourette's syndrome, when told that he had won. The 24-year-old leapt about uncontrollably and threw furniture around.

Concerns were also expressed about the pressure put on Nikki Grahame, a contestant who has a history of mental illness. She became hysterical when told she had finished only fifth and later had to abandon an interview with presenter Davina McCall when she was unable to speak.

Dr McVey said Grahame, who has a history of anorexia and was once sectioned, should not have been allowed to take part. She also suggested that neither Shahbaz Choudhary, a depressive from Glasgow, who walked out of the show after six days, nor Sam Brodie, a 19-year-old transvestite evicted in early June, should have been allowed to compete.

"People who want fame are often insecure and very unstable," said Dr McVey, who advised the BBC on Castaway, another "reality" television programme. "If you put people under stress and they are emotionally vulnerable, then their vulnerabilities will come to the fore. There is a real potential for disaster and very vulnerable people should be filtered out in the selection process."

Nikki Grahame has a history of anorexia

The seventh series of Big Brother has been at the centre of controversy since it began 13 weeks ago. The decision to include Bennett led to accusations that producers were exploiting his disability and, when it emerged that other participants had experienced mental health problems, Sane, the mental health charity, accused the show of "playing fast and loose with people's lives".

Yesterday, Zoe Streather, whose 12-year-old son has Tourette's, said Bennett had made the condition "cool" and eased her child's life at school.

However, she admitted that other sufferers had experienced different reactions. "I know of one 17-year-old who has been ostracised by his friends because they think he is copying Pete," she said. "He has even been thrown out of the band he was in."

Tim Gardam, the former C4 director of programmes, believes that the nature of Big Brother has changed radically since he originally commissioned it in 2000.

"Then it was about producers letting go and housemates being very unselfconscious. Today it's about producers manipulating what happens and the housemates being caricatures," he told Broadcast magazine.

Source:Daily Telegrraph

Assuming Dr McVey knows what he is taking about doesn't this article show how the makers of reality television are turning these shows into freak shows?

[Retroman]

Ah well...
Mentally unstable contestants and hyper terrettes victims at winning ceremonies, especially with those photo's lol, could easily classify for freakish behaviour.

But if we're talking about the entire reality tv industry, I don't think all their "quirks" and "personalities" can be put down to mental illness and terrettes sufferers reactions.

[Captain.Remy]

Thanks Red for the article, it shows how much those people have taken part only for ratings and for being watched like animals in a freak circus.

[Sunny_01]

I have mixed feelings about this, those that have mental health problems or who have previously had are vulnerable but still capable of choice. However I think that often these people are encouraged to enter, to get on with things. Friends, family etc.. all think they are great people and think that just because they like them millions of others will.

I think "freak" is a strong word to use about another person, just because they are different to our picture of the norm, does it make them a freak?

I also think that TV producers need to make their selection processes more fit for purpose for shows like BB, they seem to let those who are most vulernable enter with the thought that they may fall apart before our very eyes.

[Retroman]

Perhaps Big Brother choosing such vunerable people to enter the house is more freak like behaviour..
It could be considered abnormal to purposefully choose people in the hope that they'll break down infront of us, as Sunny said.

I think the modern day perception of a freak is much more extreme these days...
As we've become used to odd behaviour and people who are different, due to over exposure to it. So people have to go the extra mile in order to be classified as a freak these days.

[TopzTom]

Personally, I think Big Brother is the biggest reality show in the UK (despite its ever-falling ratings). Because of the pressure the producers are under to find interesting characters for the 13-week run of the show, they seem to end up making questionable decision on who the housemates should be.

From BB1-BB3, they seemed to have at least one slightly bizarre housemate, but after they failed to deliver many intriguing housemates in BB4, they pushed the boundries too far and ended up with transexuals, transvestities, anorexics etc.

Following the furore of CBB5, they toned down BB8 and we were given only a few strange housemates - a good choice, in my opinion.

Personally, I feel CBB5 spelt the end of Big Brother and within the next two/three years, I can see the show running its course and ending... For now.

Of course, once we're rid of BB, there'll be a similar type of show that'll come along and will be filled with just as many outrageous and weird people as ever before.

[bananarama]

Personally when I hear of psychologists opinions I feel the only people that should not be allowed near a reality tv show and kept off TV is psychologists. They contribute nothing exept freakish theories about human behavour. Nikki for example has done well and come out a stronger person which I think proves what a load of garble psycholigists come out with. That's my pet hate out of the way......

With regard to BB and realty shows being freak shows. Yeah I would broadly agree with that in the loosest sense of the word. Because there is a danger of confusing "freaks" with "eccentrics". Extrovert eccentrics may well come across as being freakish.

Does it matter if reality shows are freak shows. I would say not as long as those concerned are fully informed of the zoo mentality of the shows and are genuine volanteers. Which I have no doubt is the case.


BB is however I believe more than a mild freak show for those that want more from it. Learning how to judge people without the silly trappings of pre-concieved psychological theories as posed by the psycho babble merchants is a fascinating pastime.....


During the auditions the X factor is not a freak show in my opinion. Just a vehicle for some extreme show offs and exhibitionists to get their 30 seconds of fame..

After the auditions however it does become a freak show the freaks being the public who choose the biggest losers to get the prize........