[Sunny_01]

We have a thread about abortion in this section already!

I support and agree with everything Ruth has already said. Abortion is a personal choice that women make based on their personal circumstances. I made a choice at 16 to have a baby and I can tell you it was never easy. I am lucky in that I have a loving supportive, nurturing family, many other teenage mothers are not as lucky as I was and are left isolated and lonely. They end up resenting the very child they made the decision to have.

The great thing about this country is we as women are all entitled to a choice about what we do or do not do with our bodies and that includes the decision to terminate a pregnancy.

Not every woman that gets pregnant and wants to end the pregnancy is irresponsible, often contraception fails, no contraceptive is 100% effective, so what about them? Do those that have had failed contraception get classed as irresponsible?

The care system is bursting at the seams, there are not enough "suitable" adoptive parents to take all the children already in our system. I would certainly not want to be responsible for putting a child into the local authority care system in this country, it isnt a pretty life. They move from home to hom, foster carer to foster carer. What kind of life is that? Some end up in the system through circumstance, but to bring a child into the world knowing that is what you plan!!

[Sod_James]

Originally posted by Ruth
The thing is supernoodles and Sod_James - your posts almost seem to be saying that if a woman gets pregnant because she was irresponsible, she should keep the baby almost as a kind of punishment to her. I just can't agree with that.

And James (and please don't think I am having a go at you, because I'm not) to say a life is a life no matter what, is incredibly short sighted. You're saying it's okay to give a child life when you know even before that child is born that you won't be able to give it a happy life? That you won't be able to look after it properly? That you are not financially or emotionally capable of looking after it?

Or you could go down the adoption route of course, and give the child the prospect of years stuck in our care system. Because the chances of it being adopted are extremely slight. No doubt you will think it is better to give the child a chance at being adopted. But you will be giving a better chance of spending a life in care with no hope of ever being adopted.

If all the babies that had been aborted in the last, say, 10 years had not been aborted, our country would not even be able to cope with the high population - we are stretched to the limit as it is.

You said that abortion is okay if the mother is raped. What do you think about the point I made about that? I've raised it twice, but so far, nobody has made any kind of response.

Your points are valid and i respect your opinion because everyone is entitled to one. But i simply believe that a abortion is wrong and it shouldnt be allowed just because they believe they couldnt cope.

But at the end of the day everyone is different.

[Mental-Minnie]

Originally posted by Sod_James

Your points are valid and i respect your opinion because everyone is entitled to one. But i simply believe that a abortion is wrong and it shouldnt be allowed just because they believe they couldnt cope.

But at the end of the day everyone is different.

Listen to your words. Where you might be able to cope, someone else might not. Like you said, we're all different.

[supernoodles!]

Yeah I know,I accept that its right for some wrong for others.My point is that I PERSONALLY would not choose abortion.Even if I was taking the pill,bf used a condom or whatever,if i still managed to get pregnant I would not ever consider abortion

[Christina]

(Ive posted this on the other abortion thread aswell the person asked whether abortion should be legal or not legal btw..)

This is a subject that always puzzles me as i have to agree with both sides.
I dont think its right to kill a human being either and i think if its youre fault (for not using a condom) then that makes it even worse. But at the same time supposen the person is not ready to have a child? and they feel that they cant give a child the life it needs? then why put the child through all that suffering? And its the same case for a girl/women who might of been raped, imagine if having an abortion was illegal and that person would have to bring up the baby (possibly hating it) and the child would probably feel so unloved if they were to find out how they were brought into the world. So i suppose i think it should be legal as the person having the baby must know if there ready for a baby or not and they do have the right to make up their own minds. x

[Tom]

I'm all for it. I don't believe in bringing kids into the world when they aren't wanted and if the parents don't have the financial means to bring them up. Its all well and good us saying they should put them into care instead, but I think thats even worse than killing something that could be a person because the parents will have knowledge that someone out there is a part of them living with someone else not knowing who its real parents are, and one day they might have to answer. Its just not as black and white or as easy as people think it is.

[Conor]

I admit I'm split on this one. A child may grow up to be a great, successful person. Though to get there they may have lived a life of abuse.

[Christina]

Originally posted by Tom_
I'm all for it. I don't believe in bringing kids into the world when they aren't wanted and if the parents don't have the financial means to bring them up. Its all well and good us saying they should put them into care instead, but I think thats even worse than killing something that could be a person because the parents will have knowledge that someone out there is a part of them living with someone else not knowing who its real parents are, and one day they might have to answer. Its just not as black and white or as easy as people think it is.

I agree x

[x.Nicola.x]

I, personally am against it in some cases. But I would never judge a woman for having an abortion. I think that if the woman has been raped, then the mother can if she wishes have an abortion but I think that having an abortion because the child will have a disability such as downs syndroms or if the parents are happy with the sex of the baby is wrong. There is always adoption and there are some people wishing to adopt who will love and care for the child if the parents don't want it. I think though that the age limit for having an abortion should be lowered to 12 weeks. I think 22/24 weeks is just too far into the pregnancy.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Conor
I admit I'm split on this one. A child may grow up to be a great, successful person.

Yeah, they might grow up to be a terrorist. Maybe a paedophile. A murderer?

Bit impossible to dispute what they might be, really.

[Tom]

Originally posted by x.Nicola.x
I, personally am against it in some cases. But I would never judge a woman for having an abortion. I think that if the woman has been raped, then the mother can if she wishes have an abortion but I think that having an abortion because the child will have a disability such as downs syndroms or if the parents are happy with the sex of the baby is wrong. There is always adoption and there are some people wishing to adopt who will love and care for the child if the parents don't want it. I think though that the age limit for having an abortion should be lowered to 12 weeks. I think 22/24 weeks is just too far into the pregnancy.

Some people don't know they are pregnant until around 15-20 weeks.

It gets into quite an interesting debate. There are case studies where babies have been born at 24 weeks and have survived and have grown up to be normal and healthy. There was also a case where a baby was born at 23 weeks but doctors refused to treat it because its counted as a miscarriage, but it could have lived.

Does this mean that aborting a baby at 24 weeks is murder?

[secrets]

to kill a child is never right whatever the circumstance..........usually in later life the mother is plagued with guilt and it becomes a life long torment.!

every child,no matter the circumstance, ALWAYS should have a right to life.

[Legend]

Originally posted by secrets
to kill a child is never right whatever the circumstance..........usually in later life the mother is plagued with guilt and it becomes a life long torment.!

every child,no matter the circumstance, ALWAYS should have a right to life.

Yeah but that entirely depends on when you view them as "a child". The moment of conception, 24 weeks, birth?

[MrGaryy]

Would never want it but I'm defo not against it. I think there are dozens of situations where it would be morally wrong to have a baby, knowing it would never have the life it deserves.

[Sticks]

As for the argument that there are too many babies in care, so adoption is not and answer so lets crank up the abortion lines..

Why are social services coming up with flimsey excuses to remove babies from people if there is a surplus? It is because it is easy to place babies for adoption than older children. The figures for children in care are for those with disabilities or who are older. Adopting a baby away is still a possible alternative.

When does life begin?

Conception

In law we identify individuals by DNA, so if you look at the mother and the foetus you will find that the foetus has it's own different DNA. So by the way we identify criminals in our legal system, the foetus is a person.


Getting back to other arguments, suppose a woman gets pregnant by a man. (Not Rape) but then the man goes onto or has found to have been involved in something horrific. Is the child (Sorry foetus) tainted?

Another way of the rape issue, is that by choosing the abortion route, are you not letting the man off of the hook? He caused the child to be. In non rape cases, the man is also responsible for the child, financialy. By getting rid of it, this relieves the man of a financial penalty, even after he has served his sentence, (assuming a conviction is obtained)


Finally to add to this mix, some might argue that even if a woman wanted to keep the child, she should in law be made to have a termination if the father does not want it. Are some advocating that?

Finally finally, because of a court case some years ago about something else, it is possible theoretically for someone under the age of 18 to be made to have a termination even if they do not want one.

More on that one when I get back from work.

[ttw]

Originally posted by Ruth
Adoption is no answer...most children who are eligible for adoption will never be adopted. There are thousands of children hoping to be adopted RIGHT NOW, who have no chance of ever being. That's just an easy answer.

I don't agree with abortion as a method of contraception - but I REALLY don't agree with forcing someone to bring an unwanted baby into the world. If people were forced to see their pregnancy through, the chances are you would either be sentencing that child to a lifetime of resentment by their parent(s) or a lifetime stuck in our already stretched to the limits care system.

And it amazes me when people say abortion is okay only if the mother is raped. The general argument against abortion is that you are killing an innocent life (that's not what I personally think, but that seems to be what anti-abortionists think). A rapist's baby is innocent, is it not? But it's okay to kill it because it is a child of rape? What about if the woman chose to have the baby and then hated it, because it was a constant reminder of the rape? What about if she killed that child because the father had raped her? By all your arguments - that's okay.

There's just no logic to it.

I'm fully pro-choice. Abortion is never going to be outlawed (face it), and thank goodness. If it was, we would return to the days of back street abortions (surely you're not naive enough to think that people would not try and abort their babies just because it was illegal)? which would put both the mother and child's life at risk.

And Sod_James - in reference to the girl you wrote about: how can you say that such a person should not be allowed to have an abortion? She is clearly unable to take any sort of responsibility for herself, so the chances of her being able to look after a helpless child are zilch. Do you think we should make irresponsible people have babies? Do you think that's a good idea to entrust the life of a baby to someone so careless? And don't give me the adoption answer - I've already said that that is no solution.

I was going to post a message in this thread, but you've pretty much covered everything I was going to say. Completely agree.

If you are against abortion because you believe that the 'child is innocent' and 'life is precious' ... does the quality of that child's life not mean anything either?

[Fom]

In my own personal opinion the amount of weeks allowed to abort till should be brought down sufficiently and then money from less abortions could be (hopefully) put into more help for the parent after the birth, and there should be more information in abortion clinics about adoption. If they are so willing to get rid of the baby, give it to someone else who cant have babies.

I dont feel people quite understand the size of this issue until you see someone close to you give birth and you have an immense connection with that baby. Just the thought of my sister having an abortion and me never being able to meet my niece is scary.

I think its the easy way to get out of things, and people should be more responsible, the only time it should be accepted is in case of rape (Although adoption should be considered deeply) or if any disabilities are developing on the baby, if the baby will be better off being aborted then that I can understand. But im 100% against abortion and if I ever got a girl pregnant I would take that responsibility and accept I made a mistake and bring up the kid. I wouldnt be a wuss and I would be a man and accept my responsibility.

Eugh the thought of aborting a perfectly healthy innocent baby makes me sick.


And to add to that:
I dont personally think it matters when life begins, i believe life begins when the baby can live outside of the womb. But more than that... is that it has the potential to be life and it is destroying nature.

[Matt10k]

I think, as medical advances show babies are able to survive at increasingly younger ages, the limit should be brought down accordingly.

I agree with the politicians wanting a reduction from 24 weeks to 20 weeks.

So I am for abortion but I think it needs to be tightly controlled.

[dcmcak]

my opinion is that the babys life hasnt started yet, so if it dies, it wont really have anything t loose. regardless of whether it lives or not, it still hasnt started its proper life. the thing is, if the baby is going to ruin someones life in any way then the womans life has begun and she shouldnt have to suffer. think of the already living person rather than something which has nothing to loose.

[Ashleee:)]

Its a personal choice, and who are we to judge a woman for thinking that the best choice is an abortion?

One of my closest friends had an abortion. It was the right choice for her, and she doesnt regret it. Nobody knows the circumstancs of the decision except a select few.

i personally will not say whether i would do it, as you never know what could happen in your life.

[Fom]

Eugh, what bugs me is people just play around and have such an easy ride and get to do what they want, if people took the right precautions you wouldn't get pregnant if you are not in a serious relationship you should be wearing protection and someone should be taking a pill, man or woman. This way it is extremely unlikely that you can get pregnant, something like one in a million.

If you cant take the responsibility to do that, then you should be a grown up and have the baby, if your upset you are pregnant then its your own fault and this is a life... are you going to rid someones life because it messes with your career plan? Tough, in a few years i hope to pass Uni and go into a good career of acting, but if I got a girl pregnant I would drop all that because I have morals and I would not throw away anyones life for my career.

I reckon people should start growing up and being responsible there is so much protection out there, but the fact is people are lazy and pop in for an abortion when they feel like it.

If a woman that i got pregnant wanted an abortion I would literally beg her not too, I would even tell her I would take the baby off her hands and she would never have to see it. Yes she has to go through the pain of delivering it, but both of us have to suffer for not being responsible I would raise the baby her side of the bargain is to give birth... so to speak. Abortion used to be what people did when they were desperate and would go to great lengths now that it has been made legal it is tossed around to much as if its a normal thing to do. If I know anyone that has had an abortion I would be personally disgusted in them.
To me its as bad as murder.

[Kore]

I personally think Abortion should stay legal. Whilst in the womb it's not even a proper formed baby and cannot feel anything.

If they were killing the baby when it was born however, would be a totally different matter, disgraceful and disgusting!!

[Sticks]

Originally posted by Kore
I personally think Abortion should stay legal. Whilst in the womb it's not even a proper formed baby and cannot feel anything.

So you have not yet seen


The Silent Scream then

[ttw]

I personally do not believe abortion is the issue.

The issue is in educating, whether through school/media/parents, young people to behave responsibly when it comes to sex to prevent them becoming pregnant in the first place.

[Sticks]

How about teaching abstinence