[Mrluvaluva]

Maybe you are too intellectual for us mere mortals.

[GiRTh]

I cant believe some on the things written in this thread. You guys wait till the women see this thread they're going to slice of your scrotums.

The reason for the bias is due to the stas and the marketablility of women to insurance firms. Why do some people always seemt to think there are more sinister plots involved. It's laugable. And it says alot of the people who spout such out of date bigotted views.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
I cant believe some on the things written in this thread. You guys wait till the women see this thread they're going to slice of your scrotums.

The reason for the bias is due to the stas and the marketablility of women to insurance firms. Why do some people always seemt to think there are more sinister plots involved. It's laugable. And it says alot of the people who spout such out of date bigotted views.

Listen to yourself; Now we are bigoted for saying it is sexist if women get cheaper insurance just like it would be deemed racist if black people got lower premiums? I am on the verge of giving up on you, I really am! You are not reading the points at all!

I also don’t understand your point that women are marketable and this is the cause of the bias? There are more male drivers- hence more men require insurance and the market is bigger. Women are marketable too of course but not any more so than men.

The reason women get cheaper insurance has already been discussed. It is nothing to do with marketability but due to the fact, evidence shows they are safer drivers which I feel is generalising me and is unfair as I know I am a safe driver. In other countries they don’t allow insurance companies to offer cheaper insurance to certain groups just because a minority of one of those groups happens to be bad at driving. I think this law should be adopted in the uk too.

I’m not sure why I’m having to explain all this again as I have already made this point…

[GiRTh]

Listen to yourself mate. If I dont see the point then tell me what it is? Perhaps you dont explain yourself too well.

Women are marketable in that the 'one careful lady owner' still implys that women, in general, will take more care of their car. That is marketable to insurance firms. Is that marginalising men? You'd probably think it is.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Listen to yourself mate. If I dont see the point then tell me what it is? Perhaps you dont explain yourself too well.

Women are marketable in that the 'one careful lady owner' still implys that women, in general, will take more care of their car. That is marketable to insurance firms. Is that marginalising men? You'd probably think it is.

I just did. Did you not understand what I said? I think I have made my points clearly, if you don't agree or understand fair enough.

Just to clarify once again though (in case you didn't see the other two times), yes I think it is unfair on men, that women get cheaper insurance because a minority of men cause a lot of accidents.

Did you know for example, that men cause more accidents but the majority of these accidents come from a minority of men that repeatedly have accidents? Think of it like repeat offenders in prisons. Would you like to be written off as a petty thief just because a small minority of men repeatedly offend? Just because you are male? Hardly fair is it?

The same goes for any group you care to mention- which is why evidence showing their were more black offenders for their proportion of the population in some prisons was deemed 'racist' because they saw how it could reflect badly on the wider population of black people.

If you take this minority of men out, the statistics for men and women regarding accidents are actually pretty similar.

In my opinion it is always unfair to generalise. I am so glad countries such as the Netherlands see it the same way. I can only hope the law is brought to the uk to stop insurance companies from generalising people in this way.

[GiRTh]

OIf course it is unfair to generalist but in the case of insurance there are monetary rerasons for the bias. As a male driver I really dont care that my premium is inflated due to a few rather reckless men drivers. It's hardly a serious debating issue. I think its simply another reason for some men to claim they're being marginalised when in fact they're not.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
OIf course it is unfair to generalist but in the case of insurance there are monetary rerasons for the bias. As a male driver I really dont care that my premium is inflated due to a few rather reckless men drivers. It's hardly a serious debating issue. I think its simply another reason for some men to claim they're being marginalised when in fact they're not.

Well I am annoyed that my premium is inflated because I am male and because of a few reckless drivers as it costs more and I'm not exactly made of money. I am also annoyed that the insurance companies are allowed to charge me extra, especially when other countries have realised it is an archiac attitude and made laws prohibiting it.

So I am annoyed by it, you are not. I don't like being charged extra for things. I heard this law may eventually be passed in the uk so you could benefit from cheaper insurance though it is more likely womens premiums will be raised to match mens. Either way it is the principle- at least it then becomes fair.

Anyway, like I said we both made our points and we can't agree so lets just agree to differ or this could go on all night

[Shaun]

I've heard that men can join Sheila's Wheels

And what's stopping a company named Neil's Wheels from forming?

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Shaun
I've heard that men can join Sheila's Wheels

And what's stopping a company named Neil's Wheels from forming?

really? Ha, learn something everyday. They obviously, legally can't get away with selling insurance exclusively to women. I bet the women still get cheaper insurance though.

I think we should all start Neil's Wheels

[Sunny_01]

But I wonder did they consider many things when coming up with their statistics about women being safer. Like how many hours are spent on the road per week? A man or woman who drives a lot of miles a week would surely be more likely at some point to have an accident of some type than someone who tootles to the shops once a week!

I think that it is a biased system, I would like to think each quote was given based on individual details and driving background.

Also can I say there seems to be a lot of full on statements about other members in this and other threads. Can we keep discussions to the subject matter rather than about each other.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Shaun
I've heard that men can join Sheila's Wheels

And what's stopping a company named Neil's Wheels from forming?

They can. Its some boyfriends and partners policy.

Women aren't the best drivers (no its not being sexist, thats statistics as well) but women are statistically safer e.g. its more likely for a man to be speeding at 90mph than a woman.

Personally, I think the whole car insurance system is discriminatory to almost everyone and everyone should just have to pay the same price to a particular company unless they have claimed quite often before (looking into history) and going by points in license etc.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
But I wonder did they consider many things when coming up with their statistics about women being safer. Like how many hours are spent on the road per week? A man or woman who drives a lot of miles a week would surely be more likely at some point to have an accident of some type than someone who tootles to the shops once a week!

I think that it is a biased system, I would like to think each quote was given based on individual details and driving background.

Also can I say there seems to be a lot of full on statements about other members in this and other threads. Can we keep discussions to the subject matter rather than about each other.

Yes, I have wondered the same about the statistics. On average men do actually travel further and drive more often, there are also more male drivers on the road. I’m not sure if this was factored in. I think it is simply the number of claims made- i.e. the stats that all the insurance companies compile together, which considering men travel further would skew the results as it is more likely they will make more claims if they are on the road for longer, so I agree the system is biased.

I realise the easier argument is just to dismiss it off bat as sexist, even though I am not sexist at all and believe men and women should have equality. If men or women don’t have it in a particular field it annoys me. It's nice to know someone has considered another argument too

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Sunny_01Also can I say there seems to be a lot of full on statements about other members in this and other threads. Can we keep discussions to the subject matter rather than about each other.

I agree. Stick to the subject matter.

The fact remains that the demographic of the 'careful lady owner' is highly desirable to the insurance companies. That in itself in the main reason for the bias in the premiums.

[Matt10k]

The fact remains that the demographic of the 'careful lady owner' is highly desirable to the insurance companies. That in itself in the main reason for the bias in the premiums. [/quote]


If you read what I said above you, you will see how this is an unfair generalisation.

[GiRTh]

Of course it unfair. No one denies that but the demographic is a desirable one. Some adverts are aimed at beer drinkers is that being prejudiced toward non beer drinkers?

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Of course it unfair. No one denies that but the demographic is a desirable one. Some adverts are aimed at beer drinkers is that being prejudiced toward non beer drinkers?

That is a strange example. Anyone can choose to drink or not drink beer. I can't pretend to be female just to get lower insurance bills!

Also, I am glad that you now admit it is unfair. That's all I wanted you to admit. Maybe I misunderstood you earlier but I thought you were denying that it was an unfair generalisation and that men who complained were sexist or didn't have the right to complain.

You also said you weren't bothered that you had to pay more. For those people who do want to save money, we will just have to hope the laws banning sexual descrimination are passed in the uk. I remember seeing on the news that it was being considered.

[Abraxas]

Hi Matt

Well right now in the uk only young women get cheaper insurance than young men and adult rates are generally unisex (from wiki) but theres the increasing lad culture and girl racers on the road I don't think itll be long before we catch up! Ive known a few girls have crashed the first week after passing their test because they were driving too fast trying to impress boyfriends

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Matt10k
That is a strange example. Anyone can choose to drink or not drink beer. I can't pretend to be female just to get lower insurance bills!

I used the example to show that business can aim their products at whoever they want. They could aim products at WASP males if they wanted to but I think they'd get in to a little trouble if they did.

Also, I am glad that you now admit it is unfair. That's all I wanted you to admit. Maybe I misunderstood you earlier but I thought you were denying that it was an unfair generalisation and that men who complained were sexist or didn't have the right to complain.

I never claimed it wasnt unfair only that some people were obsessed with trying to prove they were being marginalised. I think I've proved that.

You also said you weren't bothered that you had to pay more. For those people who do want to save money, we will just have to hope the laws banning sexual descrimination are passed in the uk. I remember seeing on the news that it was being considered.

I'm not bothered. If I shop around I'll get a good deal. Perhaps you should too.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by Abraxas
Hi Matt

Well right now in the uk only young women get cheaper insurance than young men and adult rates are generally unisex (from wiki) but theres the increasing lad culture and girl racers on the road I don't think itll be long before we catch up! Ive known a few girls have crashed the first week after passing their test because they were driving too fast trying to impress boyfriends

Eyup Abs!

Yep, I think it is mainly just the young uns letting the side down. Insurance premiums for men drop dramatically at age 21 and not so much for women as they level out at this point.

I agree that lad culture is eventually going to make young women drivers as bad as young male drivers, or at least the statistics seem to be going that way. Just to give a personal example, my sister has crashed three times, twice of which she admitted was her fault and I haven’t crashed yet (gulp, I don’t want to jinx things though).

[Matt10k]

Girth… they can aim products at whoever they want, the problem arises when they offer goods to one group at a CHEAPER price than another group. I am not arguing about who they aim the products at!

Also, what is wrong with having a passionate interest in making sure the law respects equality? Also, I am allowed to post issues like this in the serious debates section if I want. I can also think I am being marginalized or victimised if I want, if as you said earlier that makes you despise me, that is up to you.

Finally.. It’s not personal, it’s principle. I do get cheap insurance, because I have made no claims and I always shop around though thanks for that advice anyway. I just feel sorry for people like my brother, who in a few years will get hammered on his insurance just like I did, even though I know he will be a safe driver, and just because he’s male. My sister still got cheaper insurance than me after her first crash! It does annoy me.

[GiRTh]

You need to take up those issues with your siblings.

The fact remains business can aim their products at whoever they want without people claiming prejudice.

[Matt10k]

Originally posted by GiRTh
You need to take up those issues with your siblings.

The fact remains business can aim their products at whoever they want without people claiming prejudice.

I do, I talk with them all the time.

I said they can aim at whoever they want girth!! Read my last post! Have you even read it?! I said the problem comes when they offer products to one group at a 'cheaper' price than another group!

[GiRTh]

I read your post. It seemed like the same old shtick.

I have no problem with women getting cheaper insurance if the insurance company want to entice that demographic. Thats up to them. I, in no way shape or form, feel that emasculates me or marginalises me as a man.

[Abraxas]

[quote]Originally posted by GiRTh
I cant believe some on the things written in this thread. You guys wait till the women see this thread they're going to slice of your scrotums.


Why? I can see how it is unfair and I dont think men should be scared to say things like this just because they think women will get annoyed. give us some credit! I can see a good point when its made and I do believe its unfair

[Abraxas]

Oops. Second para is mine!