[Tom]

Originally posted by Ruth
I am pro-choice.

Just a few reasons:

*Abortion rates in countries where abortion is illegal are much the same as abortion rates in countries where it is legal. Outlawing abortion would simply push it underground. Illegal abortions carry a much higher risk to both the mother and the foetus. Are the 'pro-lifers' prepared to take responsibility for that?

Personally I am for it being legal as I said in a previous post

*People say that females who get pregnant should take responsibility for their mistakes. If a female finds herself pregnant by accident, and decides to have an abortion rather than bringing an unwanted baby into the world, she is taking responsibility. She has made the responsible choice not to potentially ruin two lives.

Taking real responsibility is not just essentially covering something up and pretending it never happened

*Pro-lifers frequently suggest ' adoption not abortion'. However, our care system is already stretched to bursting, and most children eligible for adoption have no chance whatsoever of being adopted. Are the pro-lifers willing to adopt every single unwanted child? That's what I thought.

Thats more down to the current system. There are thousands of couples who could make perfectly good parents but can't for whatever reason such as a low paid job or they might have a criminal record from years ago, and authorities aren't wishing to accept that people change. The system is also really slow.

*Is it fair to say that rape victims who become pregnant should be forced to carry a baby through to full term (whether or not they keep it after it has been born is another matter). Having been violated once, should a woman be forced to do something else against her will?

Yes, I'm not blaming her for it being there but I think others deserve a chance and if she feels that strongly about it then she would give it away without a second thought. And what about in cases where someone has been raped, but they find out they are pregnant after when she could have been pregnant before to their partner? Some might not survive the stress, some might.

Its not the fault of the baby, why should the baby suffer just because they are an inconvenience?

[Annie]

Originally posted by Ruth
I am pro-choice.

Just a few reasons:

*Abortion rates in countries where abortion is illegal are much the same as abortion rates in countries where it is legal. Outlawing abortion would simply push it underground. Illegal abortions carry a much higher risk to both the mother and the foetus. Are the 'pro-lifers' prepared to take responsibility for that?

*People say that females who get pregnant should take responsibility for their mistakes. If a female finds herself pregnant by accident, and decides to have an abortion rather than bringing an unwanted baby into the world, she is taking responsibility. She has made the responsible choice not to potentially ruin two lives.

*Pro-lifers frequently suggest ' adoption not abortion'. However, our care system is already stretched to bursting, and most children eligible for adoption have no chance whatsoever of being adopted. Are the pro-lifers willing to adopt every single unwanted child? That's what I thought.

*Is it fair to say that rape victims who become pregnant should be forced to carry a baby through to full term (whether or not they keep it after it has been born is another matter). Having been violated once, should a woman be forced to do something else against her will?


JustJake, why don't you post your reasons for your beliefs?

Agree

Especially with the adoption and social services - my mum has been involved in the social services department for the last 25 years as me and my brother are both adopted. Many children are left in foster care and never have a real family and when the children ARE actually adopted. Their lives are different from other children as they have to ACCEPT the fact that their birth mother brought them into the world and didnt want them.

That is actually a VERY hard thing to accept as a young child and you need to. You need to understand that that is actually the case.

There are thousands of children all across the UK who are in care from not being adopted and these children mainly grow up unloved and end up involved in crime.

What good is that to society?

A woman should be able to get rid of her unwanted baby if she wants to without being frowned upon.

[supernoodles!]

i agree with some of that but we cant go on with people using abortion as a method of contraception its just not right.

[Ruth]

Tom - if a woman is raped and finds herself pregnant, I think it's fair to say that the pregnancy is somewhat more than 'an inconvenience'. To suggest otherwise is an insult. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a real go at you by the way - this is a subject I am very passionate about.

[Ruth]

Originally posted by supernoodles!
i agree with some of that but we cant go on with people using abortion as a method of contraception its just not right.

That's a different subject altogether. We can't have unwanted babies being born left right and centre - that isn't right either.

[hannah.]

Originally posted by Ruth

Good grief Tom, listen to yourself! Do you not think that the decision to have an abortion won't affect a woman for the rest of her life? Of course it will.

And yes, a woman should think long and hard before having an abortion, or having a baby. Bearing in mind that you yourself will never be in the position of having to have an abortion - do you think that having a baby that you don't want/are unable or unwilling to care for is not also "that bad."

Everyone's a winner? For crying out loud. Take a look at the statistics before you start bandying phrases like that around. Most children who are eligible for adoption have no chance of being adopted - are you prepared to look after them yourself? If the answer is no, then that line of argument is completely ridiculous. Regarding a rape victim - after a woman has already had her body violated, do you really think it's acceptable for her to have her body violated again by forcing her into a pregnancy that she does not want, and was not able to prevent?

I will again raise the point about abortion rates being much the same in countries where it is illegal as in countries where it is legal. It is just that abortions carried out in those countries are illegal abortions, with more danger to the foetus and the mother.

100% agree

[Tom]

Originally posted by Ruth
Tom - if a woman is raped and finds herself pregnant, I think it's fair to say that the pregnancy is somewhat more than 'an inconvenience'. To suggest otherwise is an insult. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a real go at you by the way - this is a subject I am very passionate about.

I'm the same, except from the other angle.

About the post you made at the bottom of the last page, I do have very simplistic answers but I think thats because if you genuinely don't want the baby and don't feel any attachment whatsoever, then I genuinely believe you will be able to give it away and not feel any guilt, or think about them all the time/want to find them etc.

Originally posted by Annie

Agree

Especially with the adoption and social services - my mum has been involved in the social services department for the last 25 years as me and my brother are both adopted. Many children are left in foster care and never have a real family and when the children ARE actually adopted. Their lives are different from other children as they have to ACCEPT the fact that their birth mother brought them into the world and didnt want them.

That is actually a VERY hard thing to accept as a young child and you need to. You need to understand that that is actually the case.

There are thousands of children all across the UK who are in care from not being adopted and these children mainly grow up unloved and end up involved in crime.

What good is that to society?

A woman should be able to get rid of her unwanted baby if she wants to without being frowned upon.

Do you wish your birth mother aborted you and your brother?

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

I'm the same, except from the other angle.

About the post you made at the bottom of the last page, I do have very simplistic answers but I think thats because if you genuinely don't want the baby and don't feel any attachment whatsoever, then I genuinely believe you will be able to give it away and not feel any guilt, or think about them all the time/want to find them etc.

Do you wish your birth mother aborted you and your brother?

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

[hannah.]

Originally posted by Tom

I'm the same, except from the other angle.

About the post you made at the bottom of the last page, I do have very simplistic answers but I think thats because if you genuinely don't want the baby and don't feel any attachment whatsoever, then I genuinely believe you will be able to give it away and not feel any guilt, or think about them all the time/want to find them etc.

there would be no way that i would put myself through pregnancy and then birth with a baby that i was sure i didn't want

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

If my birth mother had aborted me - I would never actually know. The baby does not know! It cannot think.

I regret her giving me up even though I know she couldnt look after me. But she shouldnt have put a baby through what I went through either.

You would have known. There is plenty of evidence to show that babies can feel pain if aborted, and they are fully functioning at a ridiculously low week, they just need time to grow and become stronger.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

You would have known. There is plenty of evidence to show that babies can feel pain if aborted, and they are fully functioning at a ridiculously low week, they just need time to grow and become stronger.

A baby may feel pain! But they do not have thoughts and think "Oh I wonder why my mum has done this"

Children do not need to feel unwanted - you dont actually understand what that feels like Tom.

But then think of all the children who are still with their birth parents who were not put up from adoption after being raped - they would hardly be feeling the love either.

Its a VERY difficult topic I think. People who have experienced more to do with it are strongly for it and the people who maybe aren't are against it.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

A baby may feel pain! But they do not have thoughts and think "Oh I wonder why my mum has done this"

Children do not need to feel unwanted - you dont actually understand what that feels like Tom.

But then think of all the children who are still with their birth parents who were not put up from adoption after being raped - they would hardly be feeling the love either.

Its a VERY difficult topic I think. People who have experienced more to do with it are strongly for it and the people who maybe aren't are against it.

But why is it the fault of the baby and why does the baby deserve to die? Thats essentially what pro-choice people argue, "I don't want the baby because it will affect my life". Abortion is a very selfish act IMO.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

But why is it the fault of the baby and why does the baby deserve to die? Thats essentially what pro-choice people argue, "I don't want the baby because it will affect my life". Abortion is a very selfish act IMO.

Its far from selfish. You are stopping a child having a bad life.

How is that selfish?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

Its far from selfish. You are stopping a child having a bad life.

How is that selfish?

Because you're killing one to save yourself. Should we just go around killing children who are being abused because they aren't having a good life and aren't wanted?

[Jake!]

Originally posted by pinkmichk
i dont agree with the morning after pill either to me its in the same bracket as abortion again just my view

Nope.
You can't kill off something that is just an egg, like abortion kills off a foetus.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

Because you're killing one to save yourself. Should we just go around killing children who are being abused because they aren't having a good life and aren't wanted?

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

[Jake!]

Its not selfish and I'm against it, its more just your view on your own life. However there are many other ways around it...

[Kate..]

I beleive in abortion. If I was raped I would wanna have an abortion, and if I wasn't ready for the child it would be mean to have it.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

Why are they not people? Because you physically can't see them? They are fully functioning, that means they are a person. They can do everything a newborn baby can (within realistic limits obviously).

If they weren't already people then premature babies wouldn't be able to survive, but they do. Would you be happy to kill a premature baby if it wasn't wanted?

Women do have the right to look after themselves, unborn babies also have the right to live.

[Annie]

Originally posted by Tom

No. Its before they are born.

When the government count the population - they do not count baby bumps as they do not count.

They are not people yet.

Once a child is born - it would be wrong to kill it as it is then a person. Am I saying kill all children? No.

Women have the right to look after themselves.

Why are they not people? Because you physically can't see them? They are fully functioning, that means they are a person. They can do everything a newborn baby can (within realistic limits obviously).

If they weren't already people then premature babies wouldn't be able to survive, but they do. Would you be happy to kill a premature baby if it wasn't wanted?

Women do have the right to look after themselves, unborn babies also have the right to live. [/quote]

The stages in which you get an abortion mean that it is not fully grown and its not a person yet. When is your birthday to say how old you are? the day you are born. Not conceived. Thats because you were not a person!! You arent born and then someone is like oh how old are you? Oh well they were unborn for 9 months so eh yeah 10 months old.

They are not people.

[Jake!]

You are just a bunch of cells til labout 2 and 1/2 months then you are a baby but you can have a baby up until six months.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Annie

Why are they not people? Because you physically can't see them? They are fully functioning, that means they are a person. They can do everything a newborn baby can (within realistic limits obviously).

If they weren't already people then premature babies wouldn't be able to survive, but they do. Would you be happy to kill a premature baby if it wasn't wanted?

Women do have the right to look after themselves, unborn babies also have the right to live.

The stages in which you get an abortion mean that it is not fully grown and its not a person yet. When is your birthday to say how old you are? the day you are born. Not conceived. Thats because you were not a person!! You arent born and then someone is like oh how old are you? Oh well they were unborn for 9 months so eh yeah 10 months old.

They are not people. [/quote]

Our birthday is when we legally become a person, not morally. They can function like a human, so why aren't they just because the law says so? There are loads of other ridiculous laws as well.

And the abortion limit is not before they're fully formed at all. There are loads of examples of people born on and around the limit who have grown up perfectly healthy.

[Jen]

Pro- Choice...

Don't get me wrong If I'm having sex I don't purposely say.. " Hey! lets not use contraception, I can just have an abortion.."

I believe if you find out from your doctor your pregancy could cause problems for the baby and myself, I would have an abortion. I don't want my baby to go through pain and suffer.
I also believe that its my body, I can do what I please with it.
Lastly I believe it should be legal everywhere.. so women can have the choice.

[Annie]

Our birthday is when we legally become a person, not morally. They can function like a human, so why aren't they just because the law says so? There are loads of other ridiculous laws as well.

Yes and the world doesnt resolve around morals does it?

Morally I would feel wrong bringing a baby into the world if I didnt want one.

Morally you feel abortion is wrong.

Everyone has morals Tom - but life doesnt always resolve round them as they are all different.

[Kate..]

*Claps Annie*