[ange7]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
Just thinking about the lives we would be living had all those men, women and children not fought to keep our futures safe. We would all be living in fear, we would not be allowed independent thought, in fact many of us would not exist because of who we were related to.

I dont think Red was in any way making light of those that gave up their lives.

nah Sunny nor do I ... it's was just a point I thought I could twist his arm with. To see if I could get him to concede the Brits had some help in WW2 pre 1942 which didn't just include "luck". Don't like my chances though.

[Red Moon]

What the UK would be like now if Hitler had won the war would depend on part where he decided to end his military campaign. The point was making was that Germany was preparing weapons that where capable of attacking the USA, and that technically the USA was behind Europe, just as the Russians where in 1942 when Germany invaded. If Hitler had attacked USA then things would have been different from how they would be if the campaign had ended in Europe.

Returning to the Battle of Britain, if people don't like the term luck, lets call it a poor tactical decision on the part of the German High Command. If Germany had continued to attack British Airfields and hadn't of moved the attack to the Cities then outcome of the so would have been different, and if Hitler had invaded, without air winning the air war, and the Germans only got a bridgehead, it would have allowed them to have fighter bases in the UK which would allowed their fighters to take on the British air force on even terms. Yes we did still allowed have a very large Navy, most of which was ill equipped to deal with air attack, and I can see how it would have delayed any re-equipment of any German forces in the UK in the short term, and the success of operation sea loin would have depended on what point during the Battle of Britain they had decided to invade. But here we are assuming that they got all the timing right.

As one poster correctly pointed out, we did have the empire forces and allies in the southern hemisphere, how much these could have helped us in 1940 is debatable. Yes there were airman from Australia and New Zealand in the RAF, but once again the main Australian army didn't enter the war to 1941, again after we would have fallen in the later half of 1940. I can't see how those forces could have saved us, we would have fallen to quickly.

As for the lives lost in that war, I'm not belittling them at all. In fact my father was the driver of a New Zealand Officer who actually counted the New Zealand troops that died in Europe, he was also one of the first people to bring food supplies to one of the concentration camps. In addition to this my uncle was in the Middle East as part of the 8th Army and my grandfather was in the trenches in the first world war. I don't think I will ever forget what they were fighting for.

So I'm hardly going to forget the people that died and the hardship the war caused to millions.

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
We would all be living in fear, we would not be allowed independent thought, in fact many of us would not exist because of who we were related to.

Talking as we were Hitler had won the war.....

Hitler himself died sometime in the late 1950's of ill health although the exact cause of death was never have been released it was generally thought he had tertiary syphilis, which would explain why he been seen in public many years before years before his death. There are rumors that his whole body and face was disfigured by gummas towards the end and in the that his heart gave out in the end.

Today we don't live in fear although life was like that in the 1960 and 1970's as the legacy of Hitlers rule was held in place by the old order. However the older could hold on forever, and as old leadership died, a new order took over and with it the resistance to the regime subsided. The powers of the Gestapo started to be eroded in the the late 1970's and by the new order and by the mid 1980 they were disbanded and the remaining powers were given civil police. Although TV and Radio are still controlled by the empire, over the years the broadcasters have increasing been given more freedom and the people allowed more free thought and speech.

Back to the real world, where Hitler didn't win the war.....

The thing is every dictatorship comes to an end at some point, normally when the dictator dies. Although the people that helped support dictatorship live on for a while and would try and keep control they also would die off. In the end a new order would come and slowly freedoms would return. You only have to look at Cuba today to see this happening.

[Z]

I think the British people would have rioted, maybe only in small minorities at first, much like the Scholl siblings, but I think that by "now" we would have been liberated from German control.

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Z
I think the British people would have rioted, maybe only in small minorities at first, much like the Scholl siblings, but I think that by "now" we would have been liberated from German control.

I'm not so sure, the british people didn't know then what we know they did today. We didn't know about the concentration camps for example. You also have to remember some of the Nazi polices like eugenics was popular in the UK back at the turn of the century and into the mid 1930's. Some people would have welcomed them with open arms.

Of those that didn't want the Germans here lot of them would be scared to do anything.

Given the SS treatment of dissident people in other nations any riots would short lived and very bloody. I think that there would have been a resistance movement in the UK, like there was in the rest of Europe, but how long it could fight on for would be limited.

I think, like in the Channel Islands, the British people would have on the whole have gone along with the occupation of the country, while at the same time doing their best to make it fail.

[TheMac]

England might never have won the world cup

[Z]

Originally posted by Red Moon

I'm not so sure, the british people didn't know then what we know they did today. We didn't know about the concentration camps for example. You also have to remember some of the Nazi polices like eugenics was popular in the UK back at the turn of the century and into the mid 1930's. Some people would have welcomed them with open arms.

Of those that didn't want the Germans here lot of them would be scared to do anything.

Given the SS treatment of dissident people in other nations any riots would short lived and very bl***y. I think that there would have been a resistance movement in the UK, like there was in the rest of Europe, but how long it could fight on for would be limited.

I think, like in the Channel Islands, the British people would have on the whole have gone along with the occupation of the country, while at the same time doing their best to make it fail.

Yeah, but I mean by the 2000s, we would have become independent, I don't think Hitler had the means to control such a mass expanse of land, because he was taking large areas by force, there would never be a majority support for him. Just look at the East/West Berlin situation, where the people knocked the wall down based on one televised mistake by a politician - people would have gotten less tolerant as the years went by; and that was under the "Allies" control, I'd imagine there'd have been several similar situations if the Germans had taken over all of Europe.

[bananarama]

I agree with Red Moon if Hitler had won the war crimes would have been concealed and the population suppressed by force. Deadly force at that.. Hitler would think nothing of killing anyone who rebelled against his regime....A small resistance would remain but would never be able to overcome Hitler type suppression...

In all wars there are elements of luck and bad luck and that is no disrespect to the brave people that did battle...

It's impossible to say what the year 2008 would be like if Hitler had won as all regimes lose there principle leaders eventually and evolve either for the good or even worse...

[Sticks]

Would Adolph Hitler have had a child with his girl friend / wife (I forget her name), if so would we have had a dynasty like we have in North Korea

[MarkWaldorf]

I'm just grateful we had millions of brave men to fight for us like we did. If they hadn't, god knows what this world would look like today.

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Sticks
Would Adolph Hitler have had a child with his girl friend / wife (I forget her name), if so would we have had a dynasty like we have in North Korea

It's questionable if he could have had children given untreated Syphilis can impair fertility.

[Sting]

I don't know why anyone would want to start a thread about this evil bastard

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Sting
I don't know why anyone would want to start a thread about this evil bastard

Makes a change from the stuff in Chat and Games, and it could have happened?

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sting
I don't know why anyone would want to start a thread about this evil bastard

Don't agree. There are a lot of evil bastards past and present and in the future without doubt.....All valid interesting topics of discussion be it hypothetical debate or otherwise.....