[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Brekkie
And that's not going to change until C4 stop worrying about the critics and start caring about the viewers again.

That's a very valid point, the CCB 5 race row is still effecting the show and the producers clearly feel they have to re-establish the show again before they can let rip with the sort of housemates they had in the past. Lets hope that producers are confident enough after CBB 6 to let rip again with the show.

Although I don't haven't be able to find the audience share figures for BB8 or BB9, I would have thought that BB9 would have had a bigger share of viewers than BB8 night on night, although the numbers might have been down a little. If anyone can find the audience share figures I think they would add to the debate.

The days when the final pulls in an audience of 9 to 10 million, which happened on the final night of BB3, BB1 and BB5 are long gone. Even BB7 which people still go on about being the best fell short of the 9 million figure, although it was an improvement on BB6's final night. Audiences figures for the finals of BB8 and BB9 where well below the 6 million mark.

Looking into the type of audience Channel 4 has, one factor factor in all this has to be that channel 4 has always had the biggest share of the 16-to 34-year-olds that watch TV, and these are he people that moving away from TV to other forms of entertainment. As I mentioned before.

[Locke.]

Originally posted by Aint_mad_atcha

Still waiting on the facts!

I think X Factor and I'm a Celeb gained viewers

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by David
I think X Factor and I'm a Celeb gained viewers

Both of those are on a different channel with a different type of audience base, that is part of channel problem, there audience is turning away from TV and when they do watch they are being more selective.

It's not really comparing like with like.

[Wildcat!]

Originally posted by David

I think X Factor and I'm a Celeb gained viewers

But Im a celebrity had about 14m vievers in the finale for 2004, compared to like 10 millions this year. ANd its has steadily dropped since, apart from a few daily increases here and there. BUt in general, it has lost viewers, just like most shows that have been running for years.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Brekkie
That may have been true to an extent, but Big Brother bucked the trend for many years - and then lost all those viewers they'd held on to in one swoop during BB8.

It actually started much earlier than that- in CBB5. For the first week or so that only managed about 3m viewers and it wasn't until the race row that the viewing figures picked up, peaking at 8.8m with Jade's eviction. Even with the race row it could only manage an average of about 4.5m (not sure of the actual figure). Then it went back to sub-4m for BB8 and then BB9.

Its average is at about 3.6m atm (I think) which is what the BB9 officials average was. They seem to have stabalised around that. BB1-BB7 were all inbetween 4.4m and 4.7m with the exceptions of BB3/5, and BB8 onwards seem to have settled around the 3.5m mark and will probably stay that way for a while give or take a few hundred thousand per series.

[Red Moon]

I was trying to find a single source for the viewing figures of the finals but I couldn't. The best I can come up with are from a number of press sources, which shows the decline in the shows viewing figures, especially after CBB 5.

BB1 - 9.5 million
BB2 - 7 million
BB3 - 10 million
BB4 - 7.4 million
BB5 - 9 million
BB6 - 8 million
BB7 - 8.2 million
BB8 - 5.3 million
BB9 - 4.7 million

Interestingly CBB 5 had a final audience has just short of 11 million.

Still can't find the audience share figures for the finals or the average audience share over each series.

[Red Moon]

Fill in the blank..... I have found all the average viewing figures and audience share for all the main BB series, excluding BB7. Here they are:

Average audience share
* BB1: 4.7m/26 per cent share
* BB2: 4.6m/24 per cent share
* BB3: 5.8m/28 per cent share
* BB4: 4.6m/22 per cent share
* BB5: 5.0m/25 per cent share
* BB6: 4.4m/22 per cent share
* BB7:
* BB8: 3.5m/17 per cent share
* BB9: 3.2m/16 per cent share

I'll keep working on the figures for BB7

BTW - I was wrong about BB9 having a bigger share of the audience than BB8.... opps there goes my theory.....lol

[*mazedsalv**]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Fill in the blank..... I have found all the average viewing figures and audience share for all the main BB series, excluding BB7. Here they are:

Average audience share
* BB1: 4.7m/26 per cent share
* BB2: 4.6m/24 per cent share
* BB3: 5.8m/28 per cent share
* BB4: 4.6m/22 per cent share
* BB5: 5.0m/25 per cent share
* BB6: 4.4m/22 per cent share
* BB7:
* BB8: 3.5m/17 per cent share
* BB9: 3.2m/16.1 per cent share

I'll keep working on the figures for BB7

Those are the overnights.

The officials are:
BB5- 5.1m
BB6- 4.6m
BB7- 4.7m
BB8- 3.9m
BB9- 3.6m

So far CBB6 is averaging 3.5m in overnights, when the officials come out it could be 3.8m or over.

So BB10 could succeed if the producers put loads of work on advertising massively.

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by *mazedsalv**
Those are the overnights.

It doesn't say were they are from in the two articles figures come from. All it says is that they are averages over the whole run of the show with the exception of BB6 with doesn't include the final, which would push the average number of viewers up a little.

I am more interested in the audience share rather than the actual numbers of viewers, as I think these give a better picture about what is going on.

It would be even better if you could get them broken down further in age ranges and social groupings but find that information is going to be hard to find.

[Brekkie]

Originally posted by Aint_mad_atcha

Still waiting on the facts!

7 minutes - how patient.

Dancing on Ice, Britain's Got Talent, The Apprentice, Strictly, I'm a Celeb and The X Factor all saw their audience rise last year - and all of whom fall in the same category as Big Brother - or should do at least.

One problem is while a few years ago BB used to be thought of as above all the other trashy reality show, it's now considered to be one of the trashiest of the lot - and you've got to say production wise those others shows are head and shoulders above BB in virtually every aspect.


It's not about just what's on screen - I'm sure even if BB delivered it's greatest ever twist and it's most entertaining housemates this year, unless C4 lift a huge weight of the shows shoulders ratings are not going to improve.


Now, the show is never going to be hitting 7m a night again as it did in BB3, but it needs to be breaking the 4m barrier regularly, topping 5m for evictions and getting at least 6m for launches and finals.

Alot of people seem to think BB is untouchable due to C4's ratings the rest of the year - but in truth while C4 don't have too many programmes that top 4m viewers, they have got plenty that regularly get 3m, which cost a hell of alot less than BB too - and cause them less headaches too.

[andyman]

So BB3 holds the record? It is my fave, and GTA Vice City came out that year

[Red Moon]

Got the last one:

Average audience share

* BB1: 4.7m/26 per cent share
* BB2: 4.6m/24 per cent share
* BB3: 5.8m/28 per cent share
* BB4: 4.6m/22 per cent share
* BB5: 5.0m/25 per cent share
* BB6: 4.4m/22 per cent share
* BB7: 4.7m/25 per cent share
* BB8: 3.5m/17 per cent share
* BB9: 3.2m/16 per cent share

The BB7 figure comes from DS.... the poster has the same figures as I do for BB1 to BB6 and claims the figures are official.

(link to BB7 figure)

[Brekkie]

That looks about right as BB7 did see an increase on BB6.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Brekkie

7 minutes - how patient.

Dancing on Ice, Britain's Got Talent, The Apprentice, Strictly, I'm a Celeb and The X Factor all saw their audience rise last year - and all of whom fall in the same category as Big Brother - or should do at least.

One problem is while a few years ago BB used to be thought of as above all the other trashy reality show, it's now considered to be one of the trashiest of the lot - and you've got to say production wise those others shows are head and shoulders above BB in virtually every aspect.


It's not about just what's on screen - I'm sure even if BB delivered it's greatest ever twist and it's most entertaining housemates this year, unless C4 lift a huge weight of the shows shoulders ratings are not going to improve.


Now, the show is never going to be hitting 7m a night again as it did in BB3, but it needs to be breaking the 4m barrier regularly, topping 5m for evictions and getting at least 6m for launches and finals.

Alot of people seem to think BB is untouchable due to C4's ratings the rest of the year - but in truth while C4 don't have too many programmes that top 4m viewers, they have got plenty that regularly get 3m, which cost a hell of alot less than BB too - and cause them less headaches too.

But they're guaranteed 3m+ every night for 93 days, well barring Saturdays but their Saturday's perform really badly anyway, most of the time not even breaking 1m. Its great value for money considering the 16-34 year olds it attracts and the amount of airtime it gets. It doesn't matter how well a show performs, its the 16-34 year olds that advertisers are interested in, and Big Brother consistently finishes in the top 3 every day, most of the time first. It also regularly wins its slot. According to IBB, with officials almost all of the evictions topped 4m with the second shows adding almost 2m onto the overnight figure during BB9.

Yes it might be down but it still performs incredibly well and better than people give it credit for.

Inside Big Brother have ratings for all series' if anyone is interested.

[WATERS]

Maybe

[Brekkie]

Originally posted by Tom
But they're guaranteed 3m+ every night for 93 days, well barring Saturdays but their Saturday's perform really badly anyway, most of the time not even breaking 1m. Its great value for money considering the 16-34 year olds it attracts and the amount of airtime it gets. It doesn't matter how well a show performs, its the 16-34 year olds that advertisers are interested in, and Big Brother consistently finishes in the top 3 every day, most of the time first. It also regularly wins its slot. According to IBB, with officials almost all of the evictions topped 4m with the second shows adding almost 2m onto the overnight figure during BB9.

You're completely missing the bigger picture though - that argument held up when ratings were nearer the 4m mark, but now they're at a point where they still may be high for C4, but are at a level where C4 are asking themselves if it's really worth that hassle - and the answer at the moment seems to be no. Politically they know axing Big Brother would score alot of brownie points, and though risky freeing 93 hours of primetime C4 could potentially reinvigorate the channel - and they might decide the £30m+ they throw to BB each year could be better spent.


Any show survives on both it's credibility and it's ratings - and at the moment BB has neither.

[Tom4784]

As long as it stays around 3 million and stays popular with the 16 - 24 demographic chances are it WILL stay on air. the 16-24 demographic is like gold dust to advertisers meaning that it'll keep making C4 money meaning that BB will go on. Until it stops winning in that Demographic chances are it won't be axed.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Brekkie

You're completely missing the bigger picture though - that argument held up when ratings were nearer the 4m mark, but now they're at a point where they still may be high for C4, but are at a level where C4 are asking themselves if it's really worth that hassle - and the answer at the moment seems to be no. Politically they know axing Big Brother would score alot of brownie points, and though risky freeing 93 hours of primetime C4 could potentially reinvigorate the channel - and they might decide the £30m+ they throw to BB each year could be better spent.


Any show survives on both it's credibility and it's ratings - and at the moment BB has neither.

If Big Brother had no ratings then surely it wouldn't frequently win its slot? Either the other channels are performing even worse or 3.5m is good for the current TV climate, and actually in the current economic climate with reluctant advertisers.

Would a critical Channel 4 (which they are at the minute) rather throw the money at something guaranteed to bring them a great amount of 16-34 year olds and in effect more advertising revenue, or risk the money? The ratings are closer to 4m than 3m as well. Take out the 1.5m show the other day and the series average is 3.8m or 3.9m.

[Red Moon]

Something else to throw into the debate is how long it will survive on Channel 4? Will get it get moved after BB10 to E4 if the average rating drop below the 3 million mark?

With the introduction of digital TV over the coming years the commissioners of the programme could decided to move the show to E4 so that Channel 4 could carry on with more main stream programming.

Now would that be a good thing or a bad thing for the show? Would it matter? Could E4 give us more coverage than we are getting now?

[30stone]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Something else to throw into the debate is how long it will survive on Channel 4? Will get it get moved after BB10 to E4 if the average rating drop below the 3 million mark?

With the introduction of digital TV over the coming years the commissioners of the programme could decided to move the show to E4 so that Channel 4 could carry on with more main stream programming.

Now would that be a good thing or a bad thing for the show? Would it matter? Could E4 give us more coverage than we are getting now?

if it got moved to e4i think ratings would be worse line the people without sky couldnt watch

or virgin and watever else

sorry im not explaining well im eating an apple in one hand lol

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by 30stone
if it got moved to e4i think ratings would be worse line the people without sky couldnt watch

or virgin and watever else

sorry Im not explaining well Im eating an apple in one hand lol

lol... hope it's a nice apple

Freeview has both E4 and E4+1. Now most people by 2010 would have to have to be watching Freeview or have no television at all. That is why I said would it matter.

[30stone]

Originally posted by Red Moon

lol... hope it's a nice apple

Freeview has both E4 and E4+1. Now most people by 2010 would have to have to be watching Freeview or have no television at all. That is why I said would it matter.

ahh yer suppose tvs comewith free view nowadays too

i suppose it may not matter then...

and yeh its very nice lol thanks

[Tom]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Something else to throw into the debate is how long it will survive on Channel 4? Will get it get moved after BB10 to E4 if the average rating drop below the 3 million mark?

With the introduction of digital TV over the coming years the commissioners of the programme could decided to move the show to E4 so that Channel 4 could carry on with more main stream programming.

Now would that be a good thing or a bad thing for the show? Would it matter? Could E4 give us more coverage than we are getting now?

It would probably be like Hijack, ie low viewing figures for the show itself and no media attention. In theory it would work but in reality people sometimes won't watch a show just because it isn't on the main channel.

But before they get rid of the show I can see it going to E4 or Sky 1 if C4 don't want it anymore.

[Brekkie]

Originally posted by Tom
If Big Brother had no ratings then surely it wouldn't frequently win its slot? Either the other channels are performing even worse or 3.5m is good for the current TV climate, and actually in the current economic climate with reluctant advertisers.

Mmmm - it doesn't frequently win it's slot anymore and hasn't since BB7. Most shows this weeks have been third behind ITV1 and BBC1, while in the summer whether at 9pm or 10pm the show rarely won the slot. A few years ago it would regularly win the 10pm slot, or at worse be a close second to the 10 o'clock News.


It's less about ratings and more about cost nowadays - and shows are getting dropped left right and centre due to them not being financially viable, and with BB's current ratings, lack of permanent sponsor and loss of voting revenue it's not the cash cow it once was - and for the £30m or so it costs C4 a year they could just about do without it. They may lose viewers in a few slots, but that would be offset by making cheaper programming.

[Brekkie]

Originally posted by Red Moon
Something else to throw into the debate is how long it will survive on Channel 4? Will get it get moved after BB10 to E4 if the average rating drop below the 3 million mark?

With the introduction of digital TV over the coming years the commissioners of the programme could decided to move the show to E4 so that Channel 4 could carry on with more main stream programming.

Now would that be a good thing or a bad thing for the show? Would it matter? Could E4 give us more coverage than we are getting now?

Although pre-Hijack that may have been a possibility, I think the fact Hijack didn't set the ratings alight means it's unlikely to be considered an option.

However, I do think having the highlights on E4 at 9pm and then repeated on C4 at 11pm could be a viable option, with the live shows remaining on C4, but for it to work they'd need to be pulling in a million on E4 and a couple of million on C4, and based on recent ratings that's not going to happen.