[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

It's about the consequences. Of course you should use protection and all that stuff but sometimes, situations make it more complicated than you think, it's not just 'yes or no'. You don't want the baby, then fair enough, it's your right not to have it.
However, girls who didn't wear protection and had sex on purpose are dumbasses.
And try to explain your point of view to a girl who has been raped.

You still didn't explain your original point so that had no relevance to my argument.
I do understand that if a girl has been raped she obviously doesn't want to become pregnant and have a baby, however, it's still another life, it's not as if the baby inside the girl is also a rapist and has done something wrong, so why should it be killed? It's just a terrible thing that they should deal with imo, give the baby up for adoption, if she really doesn't want it, I just don't feel its right to end a life.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo
give the baby up for adoption, if she really doesn't want it, I just don't feel its right to end a life.

But that means the victim of rape has to go through the psychological horror of giving birth to the "result" of her rape, that's just enduring her torture for at least a year after the event, and presumably much much much later in her life.

Secondly, the physical aspect means she's giving birth to a child she doesn't want to / can't psychologically keep. If she's young it means that her physiology may be messed up, and she may be prevented from having children in the future. Surely she should have the choice?

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Lauren

But that means the victim of rape has to go through the psychological horror of giving birth to the "result" of her rape, that's just enduring her torture for at least a year after the event, and presumably much much much later in her life.

Secondly, the physical aspect means she's giving birth to a child she doesn't want to / can't psychologically keep. If she's young it means that her physiology may be messed up, and she may be prevented from having children in the future. Surely she should have the choice?

Sadly, I think rape leaves a woman scarred for life, child, or not. It's sick but I think the woman should have to go through it. Abortion leaves a woman emotionally scarred anyway, having somethink growing inside of you and then suddenly ending it isn't easy. It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

You still didn't explain your original point so that had know relevance to my argument.

Yes their bodies. You know what it is hopefully. It's up to the girl's choice (and hopefully both the girls and the boy's too). She doesn't have to endure something she doesn't want to. Would you liked to be force to do anything ? I don't think so. That was my point.
However, abortion shouldn't be done in an immature way, people have to take their responsibilities like Lauren said. I agree with her anyways.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

Sadly, I think rape leaves a woman scarred for life, child, or not. It's sick but I think the woman should have to go through it. Abortion leaves a woman emotionally scarred anyway, having somethink growing inside of you and then suddenly ending it isn't easy. It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

You can't say such things unless it does happen to you. Hopefully it won't (at least having a baby).
Having a baby from a rape is absolutely hell, you should read more to be honest. You're very narrow-minded on that point but hey, that's your opinion, I respect it.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

Yes their bodies. You know what it is hopefully. It's up to the girl's choice (and hopefully both the girls and the boy's too). She doesn't have to endure something she doesn't want to. Would you liked to be force to do anything ? I don't think so. That was my point.
However, abortion shouldn't be done in an immature way, people have to take their responsibilities like Lauren said. I agree with her anyways.

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life?

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

You can't say such things unless it does happen to you. Hopefully it won't (at least having a baby).
Having a baby from a rape is absolutely hell, you should read more to be honest. You're very narrow-minded on that point but hey, that's your opinion, I respect it.

LMAO. Narrow minded. I won't even go into that.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo
I do see your point but should the child be at all considered just as much as the woman?

As harsh as it sounds, no. I think the woman should be considered more so.

The foetus, assuming being under ~20 weeks, usually less - has no conscience, whereas the woman does. It has no awareness, sight, memory, language, theory of mind, autonoetic awareness. I'm not saying the life isn't important - because it will grow into an aware human... but at the stage of way under 20 weeks it is nowhere close to this.

For this reason, I think in the case of rape or extreme circumstances - pro-choice comes into play.

Originally posted by Hugo
It's a lose/lose situation for the woman either way.

I agree, but by having the child their scars go beyond horrific memories, and into reality. The transition must be soul-destroying, especially when they've had no choice in the matter?

[Hugo]

I can't believe you'd say, I'm narrow minded on that point when I was the only one that bared in my the mother and the child.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life?

Of course there is. If the woman isn't ready to take care of the baby or not psychologically strong to get through a pregnancy, that may have consequences on the child. Of course there is adoption but things are way more complicated. At the point most of abortions are being done, the baby isn't even a baby.

[arista]

Originally posted by Hugo

Does the child have rights? What makes an adults rights any more important than another life just because they produced it?

You say Child.


It is No Child



It is a baby - Un Born.


It has no Rights


Fact

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

Of course there is. If the woman isn't ready to take care of the baby or not psychologically strong to get through a pregnancy, that may have consequences on the child. Of course there is adoption but things are way more complicated. At the point most of abortions are being done, the baby isn't even a baby.

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
I can't believe you'd say, I'm narrow minded on that point when I was the only one that bared in my the mother and the child.

I said so because IMO it is true. You are being very conservative which doesn't help in any way. And this is a catholic speaking. But we are all rather conservatives in different cases. I don't know, you may be for homosexual parenting whilst I'm against etc...

[Hugo]

Deleted. No personal insults.

[Captain.Remy]

Let's not start with the insults guys, for once in a while we're having a debate here lol

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

I said so because IMO it is true. You are being very conservative which doesn't help in any way. And this is a catholic speaking. But we are all rather conservatives in different cases. I don't know, you may be for homosexual parenting whilst I'm against etc...

You don't need to bring religion into it because I am 100% athiest. I don't see how being conservative helps or doesn't help, please tell me how your opinion helps?

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Hugo

Yeah, you've said that, but didn't answer my question.
Is there any consideration taken into account about the life inside the woman? Why should the woman get to choose to end that life?

Because the foetus if under 20 weeks has no mind or feelings.and if you ask me woman shouldn't be made to have the baby if she has be raped.

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Hugo

88.2% of abortions are done at around 12 weeks when the feotus looks like this;

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

[Twilight]

Originally posted by Lauren

The picture is shocking, but only because it's developed physically close to being a baby. But mentally it's nothing. I know that sounds harsh, but it literally has no awareness, feelings, understanding, autonoetic awareness, hearing... nothing. It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

This

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo
You don't need to bring religion into it because I am 100% athiest. I don't see how being conservative helps or doesn't help, please tell me how your opinion helps?

I just said I'm a catholic, and normally I'm supposed to be against abortion, that's all.
Being conservative doesn't help as far as accepting different people and dealing with others' opinions are concerned. And our opinion can help in a referendum like many countries had if yes or no abortion should be legal. That counts.

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Lauren
It's for this reason I think the rights of the mother should come first. (But this is also the reason why I believe the limit should stay strictly at 24 weeks, no later).

Someone talks sense here. I couldn't agree more. It's the person who is alive that'll suffer a pregnancy more than the foetus.

[Hugo]

Originally posted by Captain.Remy

I just said I'm a catholic, and normally I'm supposed to be against abortion, that's all.
Being conservative doesn't help as far as accepting different people and dealing with others' opinions are concerned. And our opinion can help in a referendum like many countries had if yes or no abortion should be legal. That counts.

I'd say that my opinion helps just as much as yours does then, its all opinion, my opinion isn't for the sake of being conservative, it's just what I believe.

[Annie]

I am pro choice. I support a lot of things that have already been said by others in the thread, for example, women being raped and pregnant and using contraception and it failing.

I also agree with Lauren, some people use abortion as a FORM of contraception which I think is wrong, its not an easy thing to go through and people shouldnt just think oh its alright cos i can get rid of it. Thats a mental and very childish and immature way of thinking.

People get very heated and upset about abortion and the topic itself because there are so many different things to consider but I am more about caring for the life that you have instead of worrying about one thats not begun.

[arista]

Originally posted by Hugo

O

REALLY

WH
Y

IS THIS

THEN.

Talk properly before your going to put out a fair argument. Moron.

Who is a Moron?

[Captain.Remy]

Message original : Hugo

I'd say that my opinion helps just as much as yours does then, its all opinion, my opinion isn't for the sake of being conservative, it's just what I believe.

I never said mine was superior than yours, I respect your opinion, we differ on that point then fair enough. I also never said your opinion was for the sake of being conservative, you may have never known your opinion was but it definitely is. You've got the same points as the Pope and co. have. It's all about opinion I agree.