[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I don't think you've actually answered the question, you've just repeated stuff you posted earlier in the thread.

my reply is to Lee

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I don't think you've actually answered the question, you've just repeated stuff you posted earlier in the thread.

Jesus,do none of these things make you question what happened to Madeline or do you think it's as cut and dry as an abduction?I think Chuff has put forward some thought provoking questions and I do think people have the right to query their actions.I admire Chuffs passion and I do think she has some very valid points,it certainly made me think.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Jesus,do none of these things make you question what happened to Madeline or do you think it's as cut and dry as an abduction?I think Chuff has put forward some thought provoking questions and I do think people have the right to query their actions.I admire Chuffs passion and I do think she has some very valid points,it certainly made me think.

Thank you Kaz Glad someone cares about MADDIE and not the McCanns, for 6 years its all been about THEM, while they spend the money donated on the pretence of it being used to "search" when 87% of it to date has used to fund Gnr Pinochette extradition lawyers( In a child abduction case?) and is used to pay Pr and media advisers(again in a child abduction case ?) and for lawyers to sue everyone who questions their fairytale.the ongoing case in Lisbon courts against Goncarlo Amaral is the 4th time they have tried to ban his book (lost 1st 3 cases,losing this one too) yet there are several other books out there which dispute the Mcs lies, but they have never sued those authors ,but the difference being is Amarals book is FACTS from the police files ,both Pj and Uk

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Jesus,do none of these things make you question what happened to Madeline or do you think it's as cut and dry as an abduction?I think Chuff has put forward some thought provoking questions and I do think people have the right to query their actions.I admire Chuffs passion and I do think she has some very valid points,it certainly made me think.

The truth is Kaz, I have absolutely no idea what happened to Maddie. What we do know is that the Portuguese police wanted it to be the parents, or tried to make a case for it at least, and they didn't move them past suspects to a point where they could ever be charged, and that can only be for one reason - lack of evidence.

If a highly motivated police force in a high profile case had absolutely nothing on them being involved in her murder/accidental death (depending on individual point of views), then I fail to see how anyone of us can start implying that we know more, or be amazed at a series of links provided in this thread, when quite often the links are from biased sources and can be discredited. Those dogs are the biggest standout example of that to me.

Josy posted a link a couple of days ago to some information I asked her about, and that seems very suspicious on the surface, but the link was down and I haven't had chance to read it yet, so I will go back, look at that information, but then I'll follow that up by trying to find another perspective.

I have no skin in this game, I don't know them and I never will. This situation could theoretically happen to any of us, be it directly, or through siblings or friends, and I'd like to think that the rule of innocent until proven guilty still stands.

I wouldn't want any of my family or friends being tried on twitter or the internet. They may well turn out to be guilty, I don't know. It wont be because of any information provided in this thread though, as far as I can tell.

If it does turn out to be them, then I can hold my hands up and say I was wrong - it's a lot easier to do that because I haven't been "researching" for 6 years. I think people on the internet have invested so much energy into the cover up/murder/accidental death angle, that I'm not sure what evidence could ever convince them otherwise.

So yeah, it is a suspicious case and I really understand that, but if you take a step back, and work out exactly what needs to have gone into the cover up for it to happen successfully, then I don't see how that is possible in a foreign country with a frenzied search going on. It defies basic logic to me.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

What i think happened is the same as the Portugese policeman they are now trying to silence, his book is based entirely on the police files ,the things that first sent warning bells flashing for me was
From night one Kate,Gerry claimed the shutters were smashed,they clearly were NOT

The first interview when neither had a tear in sight ,no eye contact

Setting up a search fund" within days (why did they think she was not coming back ? )

The Smith sighting ,now being claimed by SY as a new breakthrough ,its not its 6 years old

Why did Gordon Brown straight away send his spokesman Clarence Mitchell to Pdl ? did they do the same with any other missing child case ?

Why was Yvonne Martin (social worker) get sent away when she went to ask if she could be of help, but was seen talking to McCanns by David Payern who she recognised from a case she had worked on, he clearly saw her, shouted Kate,Gerry over, they went back and told Martin they didnt need her help



Gaspar statements where Leis police were told of paedo tendency in the tapas group ,and the fact Leic police decided to hold onto these statments for 7 months before handing them over to the Portuguese police working on the case

The most telling thing to me and countless others is the dog evidence

The rescheduled trip to Huelva on a bank holiday when everywhere is closed ,to hand out leaflets ,the lost hours and milage they refused to clarify ,the fact Maddies cadaver was in the car boot,which Gerry claimed was seabass? and the statement of a witness who said for days and nights following the Huelva trip McCanns kept the boot lid open

The making a list (with loads of crossing outs) BEFORE they rang the police ,they also deleted phone records too in the time before they rang police

Another ,now proven lie was Tanner witness statement claiming she saw the abductor, SY have dropped that ,so is she going to be charged with perjury?

Lots in Kates book is different to statements were made ,the vile page 129 in the book where Kate talks of "thinking of Maddies perfect,torn genitals" Im sorry but no Mother would think this way never mind put it in print in a book she wrote for her twins

Another damning thing is why did Kate refuse to answer 48 out of 49 police questions ?


Why would a group of intelligent adults not conserve a crime scene? when police arrived they had filled 5a with all Tapas group and Warner staff

I could go on,but I wont ,but everything I have quoted can be found in police files on the case

Yes, but what do you personally think happened on the day Madeleine disappeared? What was the series of events?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yes, but what do you personally think happened on the day Madeleine disappeared? What was the series of events?

How could anyone know that?

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How could anyone know that?

I'm not saying chuff knows, I'm asking her what she thinks happened that day. She's obviously done enough research of the "facts" to have come up with a theory?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How could anyone know that?

This answers the question....no one really knows what happened, everything is supposition.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yes, but what do you personally think happened on the day Madeleine disappeared? What was the series of events?

Im sorry, I was explaining what leads to my opinion by compiling a list of facts ,My OPINION is ,Maddie died the 2nd May ,accidently,Amaral believes ,and i agree with his theory, she was drugged and woke up ,climbed on the sofa to look out of window to see if she could see her parents and fell behind ,this accounts for the blood particals found behind and explains why Kate washed the curtains
I also think they hid her body in the wardrobe ,the reasons cadaver dogs found scent in them ,then cleaned 5a thinking they had got rid of all evidence ,but they didnt
I think the 3rd of May was spent concocting alibis and the night time they made sure tapas staff saw them keep checking on the children ,
I think when Smiths saw Gerry carrying Maddie body he was taking it to a safe place, until it was moved finally 26 days after they hired the car on the trip to Huelva ,the body fluids found in hire car was consistent with a body being kept in a freezer or very cold fridge

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Im sorry, I was explaining what leads to my opinion by compiling a list of facts ,My OPINION is ,Maddie died the 2nd May ,accidently,Amaral believes ,and i agree with his theory, she was drugged and woke up ,climbed on the sofa to look out of window to see if she could see her parents and fell behind ,this accounts for the blood particals found behind and explains why Kate washed the curtains
I also think they hid her body in the wardrobe ,the reasons cadaver dogs found scent in them ,then cleaned 5a thinking they had got rid of all evidence ,but they didnt
I think the 3rd of May was spent concocting alibis and the night time they made sure tapas staff saw them keep checking on the children ,
I think when Smiths saw Gerry carrying Maddie body he was taking it to a safe place, until it was moved finally 26 days after they hired the car on the trip to Huelva ,the body fluids found in hire car was consistent with a body being kept in a freezer or very cold fridge

I'm sorry.. But I can't believe this was how it happened. Not a word of it.

I mean... Where would somebody first of all find somebody willing to loan Gerry a freezer to hide his dead daughter.. Then how exactly would they dispose of her body? (I'm presuming they're novices)

[Kazanne]

This thread isn't about scoring points on who is right and who is wrong ,none of us know,but we ARE allowed opinions whether they conflict or not without being shot down,as parents I think they were negligent and should have been brought to task on that(there now I've said it)I hadn't read too much on it until the Crimewatch aired,now I have seen and heard some things that just don't sit right,so shoot me now,I don't know what happened but I 'feel' something is not right,hope I'm wrong.

[Kizzy]

Thanks for that chuff, it's not hard to believe the fund is being mismanaged at all, it was on the news that not one penny will be made available to Ben Needhams family.
They wish to look into the case again in Greece due to the case of the child found in the gypsy camp.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Thanks for that chuff, it's not hard to believe the fund is being mismanaged at all, it was on the news that not one penny will be made available to Ben Needhams family.
They wish to look into the case again in Greece due to the case of the child found in the gypsy camp.

It is not a charity it is a Ltd Co, with Kate,Gerry the 2*who decided where its spent ,it is now used to "Support extended family" is THIS what pensioners and children thought their money was going to be used for ?

[Kizzy]

So are they using this as income, as in taking a 'wage' from it?
That is odd!

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So are they using this as income, as in taking a 'wage' from it?
That is odd!

Kate retired from her job to work on the case ( lol) im not sure,but I would expect she takes a wage ,I will ask if anyone has the last company receipts ,I know on older accounts they even took the money for stamps out of the "search fund"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Kate retired from her job to work on the case ( lol) im not sure,but I would expect she takes a wage ,I will ask if anyone has the last company receipts ,I know on older accounts they even took the money for stamps out of the "search fund"

So you don't know for sure, but hey lets just spread it round anyway.

So what are we saying now that they accidentally killed Maddie and seized on this as an opportunity to start a fund so that Kate could give up her job?

[Kizzy]

Of course it's supposition, this is a discussion forum not a courtroom, although with the dogmatism you would think someone was on trial.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course it's supposition, this is a discussion forum not a courtroom, although with the dogmatism you would think someone was on trial.

Yeah.. The McCanns

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Lee.

Yeah.. The McCanns

You beat me to it Lee.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course it's supposition, this is a discussion forum not a courtroom, although with the dogmatism you would think someone was on trial.

Who is it that you think is being dogmatic here?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by anniek76

Who is it that you think is being dogmatic here?

Objection! leading the witness...
let's not start all this 'he said she said' it's very boring.
Some just have a different perception than is currently the 'norm' can that not just be accepted?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Objection! leading the witness...
let's not start all this 'he said she said' it's very boring.
Some just have a different perception than is currently the 'norm' can that not just be accepted?

I wasn't starting anything, I was simply asking the question. Your response about dogmatism was quite patronising so I was simply querying who you were talking about, that's all. Of course I can accept different perceptions..

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by anniek76

I wasn't starting anything, I was simply asking the question. Your response about dogmatism was quite patronising so I was simply querying who you were talking about, that's all. Of course I can accept different perceptions..

You can take exception to my choice of words if you wish, that is not the context in which that was meant however.
As I've said before it's better to remain objective.

[Niamh.]

Kate washed the curtains in the apartment, really?

Why would they hide her body if she died accidentally though? Why not just tell the truth? I mean is it because they left her alone? and if so isn't your child having been abducted because you left her alone just as bad as your child having an accident and dying because you left them alone?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Kate washed the curtains in the apartment, really?

Why would they hide her body if she died accidentally though? Why not just tell the truth? I mean is it because they left her alone? and if so isn't your child having been abducted because you left her alone just as bad as your child having an accident and dying because you left them alone?

IMO (And Im expecting to get shot down for it as per usual,but past caring to be honest) I dont think they were left as often as they say ,IMO they left them that night and made sure lots of witnesses that they had, because without admitting neglect they could not claim abduction