[Black Dagger]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I would stick your game on MOTD 2

Who asked?

[GiRTh]

Totally agree. The lack of leaders at Arsenal is something that has been an issue since Fabregas was still around. Yet many years later still nothing has been done.

[Alf]

I'd be delighted to have had the success that Arsenal have had in the past three seasons, two FA cups, that was the last trophy my great team won, 21 years ago.

You shouldn't be ungrateful with winning silverware.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Alf

I'd be delighted to have had the success that Arsenal have had in the past three seasons, two FA cups, that was the last trophy my great team won, 21 years ago.

You shouldn't be ungrateful with winning silverware.

This is a fair point. Its not that Arsenal fans are claiming we should win everything its more the fact we cannot compete with any of the top clubs even though we pretty much beat them all financially. And the stadium and facilities are as good you will get in Europe.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...madrid-7217377

The link shows you that Arsenal make more money from home games than Real Madrid, Barcelona etc yet we dont stand much chance when we play them.

Its not that we should equate money with success but it is a little worrying that we fail to compete year after year with not only the top clubs in Europe but also in the Premiership. Maybe ticket prices should be lowered but for as long as Arsenal fans pay thru the nose to watch the team I think they are right to expect a team that, at least, competes with the best.

[Drew.]

Originally Posted by Alf

I'd be delighted to have had the success that Arsenal have had in the past three seasons, two FA cups, that was the last trophy my great team won, 21 years ago.

You shouldn't be ungrateful with winning silverware.

I don't think anyone's ungrateful, those 2 days winning the FA Cup were two of the best days i've had in recent years, but i'm tired of Arsene having smaller things like that to use as his argument as to why the clubs successful and why hes the right man for the club. As great as they are, those 2 FA Cups shouldn't hide the fact how badly he's done these past 10 years, any other manager would be lucky to keep their job with an FA Cup win but doing as badly as he does in the league, let alone winning bugger all as he does every other season.

He refuses to improve the squad with Ł200m sitting in the bank putting us fans through more misery claiming he'd be overspending on players whilst every fan continues to overspend to support the club every week.. he's a joke & the clubs a joke at the moment

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Drew.

I don't think anyone's ungrateful, those 2 days winning the FA Cup were two of the best days i've had in recent years, but i'm tired of Arsene having smaller things like that to use as his argument as to why the clubs successful and why hes the right man for the club. As great as they are, those 2 FA Cups shouldn't hide the fact how badly he's done these past 10 years, any other manager would be lucky to keep their job with an FA Cup win but doing as badly as he does in the league, let alone winning bugger all as he does every other season.

He refuses to improve the squad with Ł200m sitting in the bank putting us fans through more misery claiming he'd be overspending on players whilst every fan continues to overspend to support the club every week.. he's a joke & the clubs a joke at the moment

Wenger loses sympathy whe he makes it clear that he's not prepared to overspend but he doesn't care how much the fans spend. He had the nerve to say the other day that Arsenal should be treated like a business!!!!!

In the business world, if you charge more for your product than other companies who make a superior product then inevitably that will lead to customer dissatisfaction with your product. Its basic business so what the hell is he on about?

[Alf]

I think you've suffered with a lot of injury's which is just an unlucky part of football.

Wilshire, whom I'm a big fan of (when he play's) seems to have missed more games then he's played.

And players like Welbeck, Walcott, Arteta, The Ox and others have been on the injury list this season.

When you can't get a settled side of your best players, then inconsistency can creep in.

There's no guarantee that a new manager can take them further, but you do know that Wenger is a successful manager that puts silverware in the trophy cabinet.

[Shaun]

Of those injuries though I'd only really say Wilshere, Welbeck and occasionally Walcott are first team quality and even then you'd have to ask if they're really title-challenging quality. I'd personally get rid of Ox, Walcott & the older players that're just hanging around in the medical room and taking a healthy wage for pretty much nothing (Arteta, Rosicky - even though I've been fond of the latter in the past).

[Drew.]

Originally Posted by Alf

I think you've suffered with a lot of injury's which is just an unlucky part of football.

Wilshire, whom I'm a big fan of (when he play's) seems to have missed more games then he's played.

And players like Welbeck, Walcott, Arteta, The Ox and others have been on the injury list this season.

When you can't get a settled side of your best players, then inconsistency can creep in.

There's no guarantee that a new manager can take them further, but you do know that Wenger is a successful manager that puts silverware in the trophy cabinet.

As much as i like those players you've mentioned they aren't going to win us much even when fit (apart from Wilshere). I've got no complaints over the signings of Ox and Walcott because they were really good talents when we signed them but Theo has never and will never reach his prime, he's been a huge disappointment. Ox has pretty much stalled and isn't reaching his potential, he doesn't look like hes getting the coaching and confidence he needs behind the scenes. So they're 2 players we don't really miss when injured.

As for Arteta and Welbeck, 2 proven players hes signed.. we should be spending much more money on much better players, we won't get anywhere with those two. I love Welbeck but he's not going to take you from 4th to 1st. I know i've gone a bit off topic but everything's frustrating me at the moment. Half the players we've had injured this season we haven't really missed and that says a lot about how bad some of them are/been playing.

Theres no guarantee's we'll improve under a new manager but if you ask most Arsenal fans theres definitely a belief he's holding us back and that theres so much room for improvement under a new manager which Arsene isn't giving us.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Disgraceful that the Wham game was not first on MOTD with the Foxes next and arsetott 3rd

[Crimson Dynamo]

shocking dive to get a pen

poor palace

[Shaun]

Furthest thing from a dive you can get, Delaney might as well take up a career in kickboxing the nasty brute.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Furthest thing from a dive you can get, Delaney might as well take up a career in kickboxing the nasty brute.

it was a total dive and tonight on MOTD2 it will be confirmed

absolute disgrace

[Nicky91]

Depay on the bench



well he can count his money on the bench

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Drew.

As much as i like those players you've mentioned they aren't going to win us much even when fit (apart from Wilshere). I've got no complaints over the signings of Ox and Walcott because they were really good talents when we signed them but Theo has never and will never reach his prime, he's been a huge disappointment. Ox has pretty much stalled and isn't reaching his potential, he doesn't look like hes getting the coaching and confidence he needs behind the scenes. So they're 2 players we don't really miss when injured.

As for Arteta and Welbeck, 2 proven players hes signed.. we should be spending much more money on much better players, we won't get anywhere with those two. I love Welbeck but he's not going to take you from 4th to 1st. I know i've gone a bit off topic but everything's frustrating me at the moment. Half the players we've had injured this season we haven't really missed and that says a lot about how bad some of them are/been playing.

Theres no guarantee's we'll improve under a new manager but if you ask most Arsenal fans theres definitely a belief he's holding us back and that theres so much room for improvement under a new manager which Arsene isn't giving us.

If Arsenal sacked Arsene Wenger they'll hit the rut that Liverpool have hit since Rafa Benitez went, and that laughable and disgraceful team pretending to be Aston Villa.

[Denver]

Liverpool coming for Arsenal

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

shocking dive to get a pen

poor palace

The way people like Jamie Carragher was pretending it was a penalty just because it was Liverpool.

I can understand Alan Pardew's frustrations as his job is clearly on the line and the Referee has made it worse by giving a penalty that wasn't a penalty and Palace wasn't even allowed to fight back either.

I thought that we can be harshly treated in the Premier League by the Referees when we're up there, but that was a new low what I saw today and the fact that Jamie Carragher was so biased as to make it come off like it's not just a penalty but making out that it was a BLATANT! one is what imo should get him into a lot of trouble from Sky Sports as his not doing his job by being impartial.

And btw I'm more on the fence with Crystal Palace as a team so this isn't some upset fan of the team kicking up a stink at the result.

[Drew.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

If Arsenal sacked Arsene Wenger they'll hit the rut that Liverpool have hit since Rafa Benitez went, and that laughable and disgraceful team pretending to be Aston Villa.

No chance, so many differences between our situation to Liverpools/Villas.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Drew.

No chance, so many differences between our situation to Liverpools/Villas.

x2

[Alf]

Arsenal are the third most successful club of all time in England, and Wenger is that clubs most successful manager of all time.

As Arsenal fans you should feel yourselves very privileged to have been around in Wenger's era.

Unless your situation gets drastically bad (which it's far from at the moment), then Wenger should never be pushed out of his job, he should have the privilege to leave at his own will for what he's done for your club and the great times he's given you.


You don't know how well you had it until it's gone.

[Drew.]

It's all well and good saying "You don't know how well you had it until it's gone" but realistically what we once had has been gone for the past 10 years. He has kept his job for the past 10/11 years because of what he achieved when he first arrived.. he's been unsuccessful in the league for every single one of those seasons. He's refused to spend money and has kept us back when we have the resources to be a much more competitive team than we currently are. He's only there because he knows his job will never be at risk & hes earning a nice few million every year, it's not a healthy situation and what hes won all those years ago shouldn't mean he deserves to still be in the job.

[Alf]

But Drew, you've won the past two FA cups, and you're still in this year's.

Your still in the title race (plenty of up and down moments still to come in that yet, keep the faith), and you qualify to play in the champions league nearly every season.

This guy is an Immortal of your club, He's what Busby and Ferguson are to Man Utd, what Shankly is to Liverpool, what Clough is Nottingham Forest.

Just enjoy him while he last's

[Drew.]

The FA Cups don't hide the frustration of his failures for the past 10 years though. I mean, somethings got to be wrong when 90% of the fans have had enough.. even those that wanted him to stay at the start of the season are now wanting change. Arsene doesn't enjoy the CL, nor do the owners, coming top 4 is just a way to make some $$$. What fun is it coming 4th/3rd every season and then getting knocked out straight away in the CL? We've got the resources to be competing in these competitions and they're not being used and fans are being asked week after week to spend hundreds of pounds to make the games.

Arsene makes top 4, owners get their money, Arsene keeps his job, everyone's happy. They don't give a toss about the fans.

[GiRTh]

Wenger has been Arsenals greatest ever manager but recently there have been far more negatives than positives. Arsenal is not a retirement home for Wenger so if he's not doing the job he needs to feel the pressure. All good things have to end sometime and due to his age the end must be soon.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Drew.

The FA Cups don't hide the frustration of his failures for the past 10 years though. I mean, somethings got to be wrong when 90% of the fans have had enough.. even those that wanted him to stay at the start of the season are now wanting change. Arsene doesn't enjoy the CL, nor do the owners, coming top 4 is just a way to make some $$$. What fun is it coming 4th/3rd every season and then getting knocked out straight away in the CL? We've got the resources to be competing in these competitions and they're not being used and fans are being asked week after week to spend hundreds of pounds to make the games.

Arsene makes top 4, owners get their money, Arsene keeps his job, everyone's happy. They don't give a toss about the fans.

Agree. There are many people who a couple of years ago would not listen to any dissenting voice but even most of those fans are running out of patience.