[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Why would you do that when half the country .... millions of people, are not having an issue with infection rates. It's completely illogical and would only serve to piss the people off. They are being penalised for no reason, other than some selfish twats in another region of the country not following restrictions

That was my first draft



In that case ... we could target the main cities /areas who are in serious trouble.. the lockdown would have to be policed though .. can’t trust the general public sadly


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[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Well target the main cities /areas who are in serious trouble.. the lockdown would have to be policed though .. can’t trust the general public sadly


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If people were told to stock up on necessities as the supermarkets were closing there would be anarchy, the shops close for one day at Christmas look what happens

[Ammi]

...people who live in those restricted areas are being ‘penalised’ as well...people like Annie and Scarlett and Lucas etc who have followed rules but are still having so many restrictions on their lives ...I hate how this is all being divisive because it’s been led down the road of dividing by media and social media...and we really didn’t need that, did we...we were already quite a divided country...the ‘haves and the have nots’...’the restricted and the restricted nots or not so much’...and if that not so much in restrictions continues, will it lead to a huge rise and then those same restrictions...but restrictions after deaths rather than potentially preventing...and then all of it is levelled off with the economy/business etc...it really is much layered...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I’d give the nation a ten day warning to stock up on food and necessities then I’d like to see a full FOUR WEEK lockdown as before but for schools to close COMPLETELY this time .

Have the bare minimum people working ( protect and reward them like never before )


Then we’d hopefully see the infection and R rate drop substantially .

They could use that ten days plus the four weeks to fine tune the track and trace system ..


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Yes.
The time would need to be used to fully ensure at local levels, all that was needed to react and deal with quickly any future rises was in place.

Also the testing, to use the time to ensure that is fully efficient and reliable.

The reason it should be nationwide us that ALL areas end up in much the same place.

The crowing of some places having few issues at present, that's fine for them, for NOW.
It doesn't mean they won't be in the future.

Cornwall is harping on its okay.
If many more areas shut down, there'll be no one heading to Cornwall from other areas, if they end up in the fuller restrictions.

We are supposed to one nation.
The national circuit breaker whatever, would put ALL in the same place for a short period again.
Something like 3 to 5 weeks.

Get the testing issues fixed to as near perfect as possibke, use the time to engage and build up local areas to have the means and plans to act instantly on further rises.

These on/ off local lockdowns aren't working, the tier system clearly has flaws and is inconsistent.in its content if you can have variations in areas in tier 3.

I agree with you.
A full national circuit breaker would send the message that things are very concerning again.


It shouldn't be months, not should it need to be.
However we need it, I feel now, to firstly get everything right as much as possible, prepared and in place, and have Government concentrating on that, rather than constantly having to re- assess area by area, with this tier of restriction and then another one.
Then bringing them out of it only to be put back in it again.

Time and resources are being wasted NOW in the on/ off lockdowns.
Far better close all unnecessary things down for a regrouping period of 4 weeks possibly as you mention.

I'm not sure of sticking up on food, you'd get the nitwits buying near all and leaving nothing for those less able to.
We managed before with the essential.shops open.

I'd support that totally.

[Ammi]

....we can’t ever and shouldn’t ever completely close and lockdown schools...for some children, their school is their only place of safety...

[bitontheslide]

Quite simply a national lockdown wont achieve anything. Those in regions where strict restrictions are necessary are rebelling against them already, those areas will only get better when people want to respect the rules, and they have shown no evidence that they ever will. There is a reason that those areas never reduced the infection rate like other areas .... they always ignored the restrictions. Obviously it's not the whole populations of those areas, but it is a sufficient number to cause a problem.

The initial lockdown in March was a completely different situation. Everything was a complete unknown, we didn't know how extensive the virus was, people were in panic. That is no longer the situation and any lockdown would be 90% less effective than March. It just won't work, and there is enough evidence from areas of high infection to show that any form of lockdown is completely pointless

[Ammi]

...I guess how I feel...(...and it’s just more guesswork for all of us because we’re in the unknown...)...is that the majority in those areas are abiding by the rules and following safety precautions etc...but they’re being ‘penalised’ for that minority because it’s showing what a difference a careless minority can make...for other areas...?...I doubt they’ll ‘avoid’ so it’s more a matter of ‘when’, rather than ‘if’ for most...the areas being penalised just happen to be the first because there are always firsts in everything but most will follow...because there will always be a ‘minority’ also...

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Ammi

....we can’t ever and shouldn’t ever completely close and lockdown schools...for some children, their school is their only place of safety...

They will be safer if fewer people were dying though... currently thought to be between 45,000 and 70,000 new infections DAILY and increasing 70% each 7 days !!
Imagine the possible number of seriously poorly / deaths in around 28 days .. and getting worse quickly

This is a real scary period


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[joeysteele]

Over half of the Country is now in some form of restrictions and it's not having the effect needed.

It couldn't be possible could it to be seen by those opposing a more National circuit breaker, that the localised lockdowns aren't seen as serious.
It's not just those out to pubs or the young who are not impressed with the local restrictions.

Whereas a national circuit breaker for weeks.
Could help drive the message home things are deadly serious again.
With the whole Nation put in the same boat again.

I see on TV when they ask people of all ages just in shopping centres, saying they don't believe LOCAL lockdowns work.

Whereas they complied with the earlier 3 month+ full lockdown.

OR do we just allow more unnecessary deaths of loved ones again.
Is that really a price worth paying for some, REALLY!!
Because it definitely under no circumstances is a price worth paying for myself.
Just my view, however there it is.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Quite simply a national lockdown wont achieve anything. Those in regions where strict restrictions are necessary are rebelling against them already, those areas will only get better when people want to respect the rules, and they have shown no evidence that they ever will. There is a reason that those areas never reduced the infection rate like other areas .... they always ignored the restrictions. Obviously it's not the whole populations of those areas, but it is a sufficient number to cause a problem.



The initial lockdown in March was a completely different situation. Everything was a complete unknown, we didn't know how extensive the virus was, people were in panic. That is no longer the situation and any lockdown would be 90% less effective than March. It just won't work, and there is enough evidence from areas of high infection to show that any form of lockdown is completely pointless

Sadly it’s looking as though the lockdown rules are gonna have to be enforced .... using the armed forces is one option that has been mentioned


We can’t carry on at this pace .. Winter is approaching and hospitals nearly full as we speak .


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[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Sadly it’s looking as though the lockdown rules are gonna have to be enforced .... using the armed forces is one option that has been mentioned


We can’t carry on at this pace .. Winter is approaching and hospitals nearly full as we speak .


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i mentioned it before, but to enforce it, the police would need to enter peoples homes and inspect them .... because thats where the major problem is. The moment that happens, i will be off to live in another country

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Zizu

They will be safer if fewer people were dying though... currently thought to be between 45,000 and 70,000 new infections DAILY and increasing 70% each 7 days !!
Imagine the possible number of seriously poorly / deaths in around 28 days .. and getting worse quickly

This is a real scary period


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...yeah, of course it’s scary, Zizu...it’s the most scary and horrid thing...but even before the virus, that ‘scary and horrid’ was faced by medical people every day, people like paramedics, for instance...?...the dilemmas of ‘if only one life could possibly be saved.../...a young child, an elderly person, someone with vulnerable health issues etc...we obviously want to save and preserve every life, every single one...we know that’s the ‘ideal’ and what is aimed for...but we also know that it isn’t always possible in every situation...we can’t ‘sacrifice’ the lives of children...and many of those children have already ‘lost their childhoods’ to circumstances.../...children in foster families etc...

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Over half of the Country is now in some form of restrictions and it's not having the effect needed.

It couldn't be possible could it to be seen by those opposing a more National circuit breaker, that the localised lockdowns aren't seen as serious.
It's not just those out to pubs or the young who are not impressed with the local restrictions.

Whereas a national circuit breaker for weeks.
Could help drive the message home things are deadly serious again.
With the whole Nation put in the same boat again.

I see on TV when they ask people of all ages just in shopping centres, saying they don't believe LOCAL lockdowns work.

Whereas they complied with the earlier 3 month+ full lockdown.

OR do we just allow more unnecessary deaths of loved ones again.
Is that really a price worth paying for some, REALLY!!
Because it definitely under no circumstances is a price worth paying for myself.
Just my view, however there it is.

The whole nation dies not want to be in the same boat, that has been clear from the start with NI, Scotland and Wales following their own rules

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i mentioned it before, but to enforce it, the police would need to enter peoples homes and inspect them .... because thats where the major problem is. The moment that happens, i will be off to live in another country

Desperate times need desperate measures .. .we could be facing food rations .. who knows


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The whole nation dies not want to be in the same boat, that has been clear from the start with NI, Scotland and Wales following their own rules

Maybe that’s part of the problem

If they want to make their own rules up maybe we have to totally close our borders / links with them till this is under control ?





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[Cherie]

The other thing that strikes me as useless is that the messaging is going out in English language only, have had a message from our Council this morning on our neighbourhood group about the new restrictions only in English, my area is 70 per cent Asian, the leader of the council is Indian heritage, put it out there in other languages so people can read for themselves and not get the information second hand

[bitontheslide]

In March, there was zero data available. Everyone believed they were under the same risk of dying basically. Now we know what age groups are affected most and what areas are affected. It's not possible to lock people down who don't believe it's necessary. It's a gross invasion to their personal liberty. Any law requires the consensus acceptance by the majority of the population or it's worthless, it can't be enforced. A national lockdown would not have the consensus of the majority of the population, so it wouldn't be effective.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The whole nation dies not want to be in the same boat, that has been clear from the start with NI, Scotland and Wales following their own rules

Oh well, that speaks volumes.

However the whole Nation didn't want the first lockdown of months either.
Once though the UK government enforced it, then they had to abide by it.

Actually, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland have acted in more like unison.
That's because with their devolved governing bodies they were able to set their own ways of dealing with this.

In the main it's been England at times through this pandemic, that's lagged behind and procrastinated, eventually following one or more of those other nations.

I was in my post referring however to England.
Hence saying Country rather than Countries.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Oh well, that speaks volumes.

However the whole Nation didn't want the first lockdown of months either.
Once though the UK government enforced it, then they had to abide by it.

Actually, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland have acted in more like unison.
That's because with their devolved governing bodies they were able to set their own ways of dealing with this.

In the main it's been England at times through this pandemic, that's lagged behind and procrastinated, eventually following one or more of those other nations.

I was in my post referring however to England.
Hence saying Country rather than Countries.

We were in a totally different place in March with regard to where infections were in the country

Actually most people were happy to go into lockdown and it was very successful

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We were in a totally different place in March with regard to where infections were in the country

Actually most people were happy to go into lockdown and it was very successful

as i recall, toward the end of lockdown people had already had enough, they were out at the seaside in their thousands etc before lockdown had finished. People are just not understanding what life in a democracy is. People wont do another lockdown


Many will say it was Cummings being caught that changed peoples opinions, and it certainly had an effect in retrospect, but even look at that SNP MP recently ... no further action being taken by the police ..... says it all really

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We were in a totally different place in March

Well I'm sorry to seem unimpressed however I feel we are not that far away from that again.
Especially with Winter looming too.

We may lose fewer loved ones, however with something like again now, over 100 deaths averaging daily, pushing to between 700 to 1000 a week now.

Infections rising, estimated to be doubling every 2 weeks or less.

If course we're In a different place to March and SHOULD be too.
We shouldn't be in the mess of half the Country in lockdowns or restrictions.

Hence why a regrouping 3 to 4 week period NOW, rather than months as in March could be the better way to reset
To get back to even just where we were in August, when things really were opened up too.much, too quickly in my view.

You won't agree however I think that, more than fiddling about with local.lockdowns, restrictions, tier tripe.
Would give the chance to concentrate all efforts and minds on really preparing for the Winter period.

I'm sorry but in any circumstances, hundreds to possibly over 1000 deaths again weekly, is not and NEVER will be anything I want to see.
I'd want that halted in any way possible

Plus those rising death figures are on the government's own changed 28 day only rule, unlike in March too.

We never see the full science or data anyway, so we've no idea how far away or closer we're really heading to where we were in March too.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well I'm sorry to seem unimpressed however I feel we are not that far away from that again.
Especially with Winter looming too.

We may lose fewer loved ones, however with something like again now, over 100 deaths averaging daily, pushing to between 700 to 1000 a week now.

Infections rising, estimated to be doubling every 2 weeks or less.

If course we're In a different place to March and SHOULD be too.
We shouldn't be in the mess of half the Country in lockdowns or restrictions.

Hence why a regrouping 3 to 4 week period NOW, rather than months as in March could be the better way to reset
To get back to even just where we were in August, when things really were opened up too.much, too quickly in my view.

You won't agree however I think that, more than fiddling about with local.lockdowns, restrictions, tier tripe.
Would give the chance to concentrate all efforts and minds on really preparing for the Winter period.

I'm sorry but in any circumstances, hundreds to possibly over 1000 deaths again weekly, is not and NEVER will be anything I want to see.
I'd want that halted in any way possible

Plus those rising death figures are on the government's own changed 28 day only rule, unlike in March too.

We never see the full science or data anyway, so we've no idea how far away or closer we're really heading to where we were in March too.

According ro Patrick Vallance the R is between 1.3 and 1.7 so nowhere near where we were in March so measures are controlling it, people need to get it into their heads we have to live with this virus, and modify the way we live, that is the message that needs to be driven home, not lock down for two weeks then everyone thinks they can return to normal service

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

According ro Patrick Vallance the R is between 1.3 and 1.7 so nowhere near where we were in March so measures are controlling it, people need to get it into their heads we have to live with this virus, and modify the way we live, that is the message that needs to be driven home, not lock down for two weeks then everyone thinks they can return to normal service

He also states it's not the only figure that should be selectively taken into consideration.
In fact that was argued many times on here too.
As many others state daily on all news programming.

Plus we won't and can't be at normal service for likely many more months or years.

A few weeks to regroup and ensure all are on the same page, plus the testing sorted to be more efficient and reliable.
That to me, is the best way.

It's not yours obviously which is your right.
I'm not going to change your mind, you are not going to change my mind.

However speaking ONLY for my own and myself, I and in fact all my own family and friends, do not want anyone losing their loved ones unnecessarily.
These local restrictions and local lockdowns have NOT and still won't be preventing that.

The full Country lockdown did bring them down.

That R figure is difficult too, to fully account without the adequate efficient testing in place.
Hence with the still mess of testing after all these months, a resetting of that in my view needs to be done too.
With all minds and efforts on it.

I'm repeating myself here anyway.
So, nice talking to you however we just do not agree.
Pure and simply.

I support an at least 3 week Country circuit breaker.
So actually does the science.

[AnnieK]

Tier 3 doesn't go far enough. You can still go in a pub it you're buying food, you can still go in shops, you can still stay in hotels etc etc. Its just half hearted. I would rather be told we have to lock down fully (regionally) until cases drop to a sufficient level. Close the schools, unis, colleges. Stop public transport and restrict numbers in supermarkets again. Going at it half hearted just closing drink based pubs is not going to do anything

[Kizzy]

I like the idea of a circuit break too, it is effectively isolation for the whole country. It makes sense logically if everyone quarantines then there'll effectively be a reset created that will reduce the number infected considerably.
This could mean the difference between our hospitals being totally swamped and not?

But it has to be everyone or nobody, pockets of differing measures are useless. If we do this nationally and there's no change then we have to face the fact it may have to run...And look after each other the best we can.