[bitontheslide]

We haven't come up with anti bodies for the common cold, so there is no reason to believe that we would have permanent immunity to covid either, and people have been saying that for months. However, it's not a black or white thing. The t cell angle means that you can catch it but it doesn't do any (or as much) harm. I do think the narrative of "the vaccine will be here soon" is overly simplistic because there is no evidence that it will lead to long term immunity (how can they know yet) but the line being taken is that some immunity is better than none, which doesn't fill me with a load of confidence in it

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...sorry, just to add to that, Zizu...just because it is connected...



Coronavirus: Antibodies fall rapidly after COVID infection, dashing hopes of herd immunity - study...



So-called herd immunity has been proposed by some scientists as a better alternative to lockdowns in tackling the coronavirus pandemic.



It would require around 50-60% of the population to have protection against the virus so it could no longer transmit efficiently.



However, a major UK study has found that rather than building immunity over time, the number of people with antibodies has fallen by 26% since lockdown was eased over the summer.



Researchers from Imperial College London screened 365,000 people over three rounds of testing between June and September.



Results of the REACT-2 study showed that 6% of people had antibodies to the virus around the time lockdown was eased in late June and early July.



But by the start of the second wave last month, this dropped to just 4.4%.



Professor Helen Ward, one of the researchers, said the new results strongly suggest that herd immunity is unachievable.



"When you think 95 people out of 100 are still likely to be susceptible, we are a long, long way from anything resembling population level protection against onward transmission," she said.



"It's not something you can use as a strategy for infection control [for COVID-19] in the population."



The finding is another blow to scientists behind the controversial Great Barrington Declaration, who had suggested that vulnerable people could be shielded at home while the virus spreads through the young and healthy to build up herd immunity.



The proposal has been strongly criticised by many other scientists.



The researchers found younger people, those from black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) communities and health workers had higher antibody levels, possibly because they were in regular contact with infected individuals.



The fall in antibodies suggest people will be regularly re-infected, just as they are with related coronaviruses that cause the common cold.



Professor Wendy Barclay, an infectious diseases specialist and one of the researchers, said antibodies peak three to four weeks after symptoms and then drop away, as they do for related viruses.



She said: "Seasonal coronaviruses that circulate every winter and cause common colds can re-infect people after six to 12 months.



"We suspect that the way the body reacts to infection with this new coronavirus is similar to that."



There have so far only been a handful of documented cases of re-infection.



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Dr Alexander Edwards, associate professor in biomedical technology at the University of Reading, said: "What is not clear is how quickly antibody levels would rise again if a person encounters the virus a second time.



"It is possible they will still rapidly respond, and either have a milder illness, or remain protected through immune memory.



"So even if the rapid antibody test is no longer positive, the person may still be protected from re-infection."



The study, which is yet to be peer reviewed, only measured antibodies.



It is possible that another arm of the immune system called T-cells, may remain active, but there is currently no available test for them.



Scientists are cautious about using the results to predict the protection provided by a vaccine.



They say immunisations may lead to a more robust antibody response.



Health Minister Lord Bethell said the study "is a critical piece of research, helping us to understand the nature of COVID-19 antibodies over time, and improve our understanding about the virus itself".



He added: "We rely on this kind of important research to inform our continued response to the disease, so we can continue to take the right action at the right time.



"It is also important that everyone knows what this means for them - this study will help in our fight against the virus, but testing positive for antibodies does not mean you are immune to COVID-19."

Thanks for this !

You’ve added some meat to the bones of my story ..


A bacteriologist was just sharing the case of a young healthy 22yr who tested positive a few months ago - mild symptoms.
He then tested positive again just 48 days later.. the virus had changed dramatically.. he was gravely ill in hospital for weeks . Now recovering slowly thankfully.

That’s scary



What’s the point of spending all this time and money on a vaccine for a virus that’s completely changing in 48 days ... I don’t even see how we can give vaccines every two months ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[bitontheslide]

Zizu with covid, you cannot say something happened to one person therefore it could happen to many. It just doesn't work that way. There is certainly no point in worrying about getting covid twice when 90% of the world population haven't had it once yet. We can spend our days worrying about what if's forever ... but it's not a good way to maintain mental health. Jumping on every scare story the press put out on an almost daily basis doesn't do anyone any good

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

promoting herself before her IAC entry I guess

Very irresponsible but she won't be the only one with 7 at the table I am sure

Yes well Over Cocky V. Derbyshire
while working for BBC news.

A Law breaker - possible.

[arista]

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Zizu with covid, you cannot say something happened to one person therefore it could happen to many. It just doesn't work that way. There is certainly no point in worrying about getting covid twice when 90% of the world population haven't had it once yet. We can spend our days worrying about what if's forever ... but it's not a good way to maintain mental health. Jumping on every scare story the press put out on an almost daily basis doesn't do anyone any good

It’s not me saying that to be fair ..

It’s on the radio , telly and general media


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Vanessa]

Bar and restaurant owners in Italy have been protesting.
Just seen it on the news and they look really pissed off
I'm not surprised, closing at 6 pm is way too early.
I think 10 pm is reasonable.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Zizu

It’s not me saying that to be fair ..

It’s on the radio , telly and general media


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

oh I know that Zizu , but they are feeding panic, when they just shouldn't , it's been happening since the beginning of the year.

The way I look at these things is ... is there anything I can personally do about it .. and the answer is no ... so what's the point of worrying about it, it's just pointless. We need to concentrate on what we as individuals can do ourselves

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

We haven't come up with anti bodies for the common cold, so there is no reason to believe that we would have permanent immunity to covid either, and people have been saying that for months. However, it's not a black or white thing. The t cell angle means that you can catch it but it doesn't do any (or as much) harm. I do think the narrative of "the vaccine will be here soon" is overly simplistic because there is no evidence that it will lead to long term immunity (how can they know yet) but the line being taken is that some immunity is better than none, which doesn't fill me with a load of confidence in it

It's not as simple as that really since most "common colds" are rhinovirus variations not coronaviruses, and the reason you don't become "immune to the cold" is that there are dozens of rhinovirus variations doing the rounds so when you catch 3 colds in a year, it's likely they're all completely "different colds". When you catch one of the "coronavirus colds" it's actually fairly likely you wont get that same strain again for a number of years - but again, you can still get any of the various other colds that do the rounds.

In short, "the common cold" is actually a tonne of different mild viruses that happen to have similar symptoms, it's not actually a distinct illness.

[Toy Soldier]

As a fun addition to that - it is actually possible to get a corona-based cold AND a rhino-based cold at the same time

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

As a fun addition to that - it is actually possible to get a corona-based cold AND a rhino-based cold at the same time

they are predicting a flu/covid mix .... that sounds like a real joy

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

they are predicting a flu/covid mix .... that sounds like a real joy

You'd have to be fairly unlucky to catch both at the same time but, statistically, I guess there will probably be a couple of cases.

[arista]

Oldham, Greater Manchester:
Mass brawl erupts at petrol station as women
throw punches after 'refusing to wear mask'


Fists Up


[Within seconds of the video starting,
one of the other women appears to throw
a punch, before the situation deescalates
and she appears to drag her friend away.
But then both women appear to throw
a series of punches at the woman in grey.

As the melee ends, the camera darts off
to the two men. The footage appears to
show a man punching the man in red,
sending his glasses flying off his face.]


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wear-mask.html

[arista]

Wave of anti-lockdown protests sweeps across Europe


[Protesters in Barcelona,
waving placards including the slogan '******* Covidtalism',
take part in an anti-curfew march last night]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pt-Europe.html


[In Turin, police responded with volleys
of tear gas as they tried to restore order
on Monday night.
Pictured: Demonstrators next to a fire in Turin]

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

oh I know that Zizu , but they are feeding panic, when they just shouldn't , it's been happening since the beginning of the year.



The way I look at these things is ... is there anything I can personally do about it .. and the answer is no ... so what's the point of worrying about it, it's just pointless. We need to concentrate on what we as individuals can do ourselves

Fair points ..

I don’t think the media understand or care what this type of revelation can do to someone’s mindset ..




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by arista

Oldham, Greater Manchester:

Mass brawl erupts at petrol station as women

throw punches after 'refusing to wear mask'





Fists Up





[Within seconds of the video starting,

one of the other women appears to throw

a punch, before the situation deescalates

and she appears to drag her friend away.

But then both women appear to throw

a series of punches at the woman in grey.



As the melee ends, the camera darts off

to the two men. The footage appears to

show a man punching the man in red,

sending his glasses flying off his face.]





https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wear-mask.html

Oldham are at the forefront of the second wave from what I can tell — stats-wise so tensions will be high ...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by arista

Oldham, Greater Manchester:
Mass brawl erupts at petrol station as women
throw punches after 'refusing to wear mask'


Fists Up


[Within seconds of the video starting,
one of the other women appears to throw
a punch, before the situation deescalates
and she appears to drag her friend away.
But then both women appear to throw
a series of punches at the woman in grey.

As the melee ends, the camera darts off
to the two men. The footage appears to
show a man punching the man in red,
sending his glasses flying off his face.]


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wear-mask.html

At least we know Annie is getting some fresh air.

[bitontheslide]

i think it's unlikely that a fight was started because someone was wearing a mask. Sometimes people are just plain old thugs

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by arista

Wave of anti-lockdown protests sweeps across Europe


[Protesters in Barcelona,
waving placards including the slogan '******* Covidtalism',
take part in an anti-curfew march last night]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pt-Europe.html


[In Turin, police responded with volleys
of tear gas as they tried to restore order
on Monday night.
Pictured: Demonstrators next to a fire in Turin]

In my country it's the 6 pm closure that caused this.
Business owners are really angry

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

]

Me and you Arista, outside Woolies when the war dogs malfunction and won't serve us any fizzy colabottles. **** the system.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

In my country it's the 6 pm closure that caused this.
Business owners are really angry

who cares about silly things as economy, this should not be a huge problem

if businesses get into trouble, EU will help out any of their nations

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

who cares about silly things as economy, this should not be a huge problem

if businesses get into trouble, EU will help out any of their nations

The EU's ability to help out struggling nations is entirely dependant on the economic health of its wealthier member nations, but you just said economy shouldn't/doesn't matter so... they won't be able to help anyone .

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The EU's ability to help out struggling nations is entirely dependant on the economic health of its wealthier member nations, but you just said economy shouldn't/doesn't matter so... they won't be able to help anyone .

Nicky will use his vast drug empire to finance the EU's recovery

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The EU's ability to help out struggling nations is entirely dependant on the economic health of its wealthier member nations, but you just said economy shouldn't/doesn't matter so... they won't be able to help anyone .

trash Netherlands should just donate 100 billion to spread over the struggling nations

i don't care if this **** dutch go bankrupt anyway

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

trash Netherlands should just donate 100 billion to spread over the struggling nations

i don't care if this **** dutch go bankrupt anyway

One country donates its entire economic output to be spread between the others, to concentrate extreme misery in one place whilst lessening it everywhere else...

...it's a bold strategy Nicky, the sociopath in me quite likes it .