[smudgie]

So it was Alex Sibley saying at lunch time, and now Marco.
Friends like that you don't need.
Or is it all just for publicity. Either way it is just so wrong.

[Mr XcX]

If she does commit a suicide attempt then CH4 better get ready!!!

The JJJ mob absolutely DISGUST ME for still BOOING HER and EGGING HER CAR

GET A LIFE!!!

[lily.]

Ok, I'll refer to 'her' as 'she' if it's offensive to do otherwise.

However, I stand by my point that 'she' is still technically a man... no amount of surgery can change that... she may look female, but she isn't.

[\PJ/]

This whole UBB thing is a sham i don't get the appeal of old faces going back in to a chapter of there life that closed a long time ago,oh actually i know why MONEY.

[dannyboy]

The whole 'sex verses gender' debate is coming into play here a bit. Sex is strictly biological, and yes, Nadia was certainly born male, in terms of her sex. And some may say that this can never be fully altered.

But 'gender' is far more complicated, it's a social and psychological aspect of someone's personality. Nadia was born male but believed she had a female mind, to the extent in which she felt the need to physically change her body to align her body to her mind. And a mix of surgery and hormones makes her physically appear to be a woman. We know she wasn't born a woman. But she is not a man.

Hope that explains the issue, at least at a superficial level. :S

[lily.]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

The whole 'sex verses gender' debate is coming into play here a bit. Sex is strictly biological, and yes, Nadia was certainly born male, in terms of her sex. And some may say that this can never be fully altered.

But 'gender' is far more complicated, it's a social and psychological aspect of someone's personality. Nadia was born male but believed she had a female mind, to the extent in which she felt the need to physically change her body to align her body to her mind. And a mix of surgery and hormones makes her physically appear to be a woman. We know she wasn't born a woman. But she is not a man.

Hope that explains the issue, at least at a superficial level. :S

I agree with most of this. The only part I question is : "But she is not a man".

Can it be said that "she is not a woman"?

And, if so, what is she? How would one actually categorize her?

[dannyboy]

Originally Posted by lily.

I agree with most of this. The only part I question is : "But she is not a man".

Can it be said that "she is not a woman"?

And, if so, what is she? How would one actually categorize her?

I don't know about others, but I would personally say 'trans-woman' or MTF (Male to female) transsexual.

I think that the term 'woman' is often perceived to mean 'born woman'. She's not a 'born woman', we know that much. But she is a trans-woman.

I'd say that trans-woman is a sub-category of 'woman' as a whole. So, with that in mind yes, she is a woman. But was born physically male. It's a very intricate issue, with layers of ambiguity and subjectivity (different people have very different attitude to what is and what's not!!) but that's my two cense for now. Lol.

[MassiveTruck]

Originally Posted by dannyboy

The whole 'sex verses gender' debate is coming into play here a bit. Sex is strictly biological, and yes, Nadia was certainly born male, in terms of her sex. And some may say that this can never be fully altered.

But 'gender' is far more complicated, it's a social and psychological aspect of someone's personality. Nadia was born male but believed she had a female mind, to the extent in which she felt the need to physically change her body to align her body to her mind. And a mix of surgery and hormones makes her physically appear to be a woman. We know she wasn't born a woman. But she is not a man.

Hope that explains the issue, at least at a superficial level. :S

It's make up that makes her look like a woman, if anything remotely like a woman, not the hormones. The hormones give her the possibility to have a more feminine reaction i.e. it is a theoretical therapy not a scientific absolute therapy e.g. Theoretically the hope is she will behave like a woman and be more like a woman so people in her state go to Doctors to ask to be turned into a woman - there is nothing about her that is womanly other than the mental belief that she is.

There are people in the world who think they should be bears, cats and fish... what do we do?

It's the same principle if not "superficially" glossed up with ambiguous and vague scientific pandering and rambling about female brains and suppositions about embryotic/zygotic behaviour.

But it is... a socially psychological, not a psychological, a socially psychological "phenomenon", that in order to behave in a distinct, unusual social state in our present existence we have to cater for this belief that "I should have been a woman".

There is no absolute. It's a phase in society for a small minority fuelled by the protest of of a delusional few.

[Shardlake]

Originally Posted by MassiveTruck

It's make up that makes her look like a woman, if anything remotely like a woman, not the hormones. The hormones give her the possibility to have a more feminine reaction i.e. it is a theoretical therapy not a scientific absolute therapy e.g. Theoretically the hope is she will behave like a woman and be more like a woman so people in her state go to Doctors to ask to be turned into a woman - there is nothing about her that is womanly other than the mental belief that she is.

There are people in the world who think they should be bears, cats and fish... what do we do?

It's the same principle if not "superficially" glossed up with ambiguous and vague scientific pandering and rambling about female brains and suppositions about embryotic/zygotic behaviour.

But it is... a socially psychological, not a psychological, a socially psychological "phenomenon", that in order to behave in a distinct, unusual social state in our present existence we have to cater for this belief that "I should have been a woman".

There is no absolute. It's a phase in society for a small minority fuelled by the protest of of a delusional few.

What a load of absolute twoddle. Your ability to construct a coherent sentence and use some big words may intimidate some on here who struggle to put 2 words together, giving you the impression that what you wrote above is true.

But its complete bollox.

You think hormones will just make someone have a more feminine reaction to things? Thats just laughable man.

Have you never seen female bodybuilders and thought god they look so manly. Why do you think that is?

[MassiveTruck]

Originally Posted by Shardlake

What a load of absolute twoddle. Your ability to construct a coherent sentence and use some big words may intimidate some on here who struggle to put 2 words together, giving you the impression that what you wrote above is true.

But its complete bollox.

You think hormones will just make someone have a more feminine reaction to things? Thats just laughable man.

Have you never seen female bodybuilders and thought god they look so manly. Why do you think that is?

Erm... Er... LOL!!

I really don't think you've got a handle on the first idea of this... PMSL!

The irony and contradiction you just oozed actually breaks records.

[Jase.]

Originally Posted by MassiveTruck

Erm... Er... LOL!!

I really don't think you've got a handle on the first idea of this... PMSL!

The irony and contradiction you just oozed actually breaks records.

[rusticgal]

Perhaps Nadia should re-think her behaviour in future....maybe she should think twice about opening her big fat mouth.
There is having an opinion...and there is being insensitive about it.Shouting her head off like a banshee.... she got away with it before...now she just thinks she has the right.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Perhaps Nadia should re-think her behaviour in future....maybe she should think twice about opening her big fat mouth.
There is having an opinion...and there is being insensitive about it.Shouting her head off like a banshee.... she got away with it before...now she just thinks she has the right.

Youve got the nerve to post this crap being a John James uber fanatic?

OMFG.

Just laughable.

[flamingGalah!]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Perhaps Nadia should re-think her behaviour in future....maybe she should think twice about opening her big fat mouth.
There is having an opinion...and there is being insensitive about it.Shouting her head off like a banshee.... she got away with it before...now she just thinks she has the right.

Lol, what daring to say what 99% of others are thinking about your beloved JJJ... Get a grip dear...

[Sammi_Who]

Ugh, i do blame Big Brother. But not for this "Coolio" debate we are hearing now. More because it was obvious to most people, that Nadia was in a fragile state of mind and not in a good space when she went in!

She should have never been allowed in and put in the position of being rejected by the public. She clearly couldnt handle the thought. IDK maybe it was her ego or whatever, but the decision should have been made after she failed the psychological tests. No one is immune from becoming unpopular on BB, and no matter the reasons we are hearing now on why she displayed the behaviour in the house thats made her unpopular. It doesnt change the fact that she was extremely rude in her treatment to several HMs.

[sirwanksalot]

Nadia miss-played her hand and got the public boot. Playing the victim card against the very show that made her famous will also backfire.

As for the "Marco Sabba" post, What type of scumbag violates a friends confidence by posting such information in a forum? The answer is a "nobody" who is far more interested in appearing to the masses that he is "in the know" with hot gossip than anything resembling the behavior of a true friend.

PS: If Nadia passed all mental exams to get gender reassignment, then Nadia is capable of handling the public's rejection.

[Zippy]

Poor Nadia. Her real fans still love her and stand by her.

Actually, I thought Davina was very supportive towards her so Im not sure why she's being blamed.

The scumbag audience(or part of it) however, need to get a life. This isnt the medieval times of public executions and its only a silly TV show FFS. Coz she got angry a couple of times(against really annoying people like Ulrika and Coolio)she deserves to be jeered when she's in tears? Just vile.

[sirwanksalot]

Originally Posted by Zippy

This isnt the medieval times of public executions and its only a silly TV show

Yes, fans cheer for their favorites and jeer the least favorites, it's just a silly tv show.

[smudgie]

In the light of the Sunday Star interview, Marco's post is ridiculous.
All that crap about Nadia not knowing he was posting.
Half of his words look like they are copied directly from the interview.
Methinks it is all a bit of a scam to get some money and attention for Nadia.
She is a deluded, self centred, bad tempered idiot that is trying to bite the hand that fed her.

[heyugoonie]

It was nice to see Davina hug Nadia, I became annoyed with her when she come on BBBM and said Nadia has "boyish good looks".

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by heyugoonie

It was nice to see Davina hug Nadia, I became annoyed with her when she come on BBBM and said Nadia has "boyish good looks".

Before she hugged she said Nadia, I love you. She's always been a big fan of hers. Dont remember the BBBM comment but if she said that I think it was a compliment. Good looks are good looks!

[arista]

Originally Posted by UBBFAN

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s....php?t=1345189

I have complained to Ofcom and sent this post to major newspapers. I hope former hm's boycott the final. Chavina you should be ashamed of yourself!!!

something is Up
as she could not go on BBLB today.

[M X]

I want to give Nadia a big hug. She didn't really do anything wrong.
Coolio is clearly an arsehole, and I hope something is done about this.

Nadia needs to go back into The Priory.

[icecakes]

Ithink its just sour grapes myself,she thaught she was going to walk it,she carnt get over the shock,theres a lot of people suffering in this world,getting booed is nothing she,ll get over it

[cheapbbfan]

Is this why she wasnt on Big Mouth?