[Angus]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think it after claiming JSA for 6 months? Not too sure as I was only ever on jobseekers for a fortnight while inbetween jobs (before this job shortage, when it was simple to just get one on the spot). My mate has been unemployed for a year now, and he had to go on some course which was mandatory if he wanted to keep claiming. Know what the ONE WEEK course was for? To make a CV. During the week, they repaid his travel costs, and gave everyone who was on the course £2 a day for their dinner. They were there for 6 hours a day. A total of 30 hours, to do something that he finished in an hour. He said he spent the rest of the time using the internet at the facility.

Another waste of money if you ask me :/

That's because this ridiculous course is not intended to actually find anyone a job - people on it are removed from the official unemployment figures for the duration, as they will be shown as "in training" - this artificially massages the true figure of unemployed. Pathetic but true. I know this because I have a friend who works at our local Jobcentre.

Furthermore, the courses are aimed at the least intelligent, least motivated, and least likely to ever get work, thereby not actually being of any use whatsoever to genuine jobseekers like your friend, who find themselves twiddling their thumbs for hours every day. Surely his time would be better spent pounding the pavements and knocking on doors, not making him do the infantile activities they insist people participate in to get their Jobseekers. A total waste of resources.

In my opinion, those claiming JSA who have worked for years and paid their dues should not have to fulfil any other conditions in order to receive their money. It is actually quite insulting and demeaning to have to attend such basic courses as "how to write a CV"; how to apply for a job; how to behave at an interview; etc. I would refuse point blank to attend any course that is not going to actually teach me anything I already know.

Only the workshy, long term unemployed (and usually unemployable), should have to attend these pathetic courses to "earn" their JSA which they have probably never contributed a penny to in the first place.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by keithafc

Yeah. Sounds like the core gateway programme you go on after a year or more on JSA. Whats he doing now? A job placement?

Nope, still on the dole :/

Originally Posted by angus58

That's because this ridiculous course is not intended to actually find anyone a job - people on it are removed from the official unemployment figures for the duration, as they will be shown as "in training" - this artificially massages the true figure of unemployed. Pathetic but true. I know this because I have a friend who works at our local Jobcentre.

Furthermore, the courses are aimed at the least intelligent, least motivated, and least likely to ever get work, thereby not actually being of any use whatsoever to genuine jobseekers like your friend, who find themselves twiddling their thumbs for hours every day. Surely his time would be better spent pounding the pavements and knocking on doors, not making him do the infantile activities they insist people participate in to get their Jobseekers. A total waste of resources.

In my opinion, those claiming JSA who have worked for years and paid their dues should not have to fulfil any other conditions in order to receive their money. It is actually quite insulting and demeaning to have to attend such basic courses as "how to write a CV"; how to apply for a job; how to behave at an interview; etc. I would refuse point blank to attend any course that is not going to actually teach me anything I already know.

Only the workshy, long term unemployed (and usually unemployable), should have to attend these pathetic courses to "earn" their JSA which they have probably never contributed a penny to in the first place.

Thats really interesting actually, thought it might be something like that.

On the other hand, sometimes they send people on worthwhile courses...but at a price. My sister has just had a baby, her partner was out of work while she was pregnant but trying to get back into working. The jobcentre arranged for him to go on some 2 week course to learn the basics of plastering and that after he asked them to. They messed around, giving him the wrong start dates for about a month, then finally gave him the correct one, and my sister went into labour the next day...however, they would not give him a day off to see his child. He continued going on this course, and was due a payment half way through. His payment never came. After ringing about and getting passed from office to office, he was eventually told that his payments would start up again when the course ended, as since he had voluntarily gone on the course (instred of being forced to...) he would have to make a new claim. Perfect for when you have just had a baby eh? Luckily my dad could lend them what they needed to support the newborn, but it really does make you think...surely they should be WANTING people to help themselves back into work, not have to be forced into it. But they make it as hard as possible to do that it seems :S

[keithafc]

Do they not give you a job placement?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Nope, still on the dole :/

Thats really interesting actually, thought it might be something like that.

On the other hand, sometimes they send people on worthwhile courses...but at a price. My sister has just had a baby, her partner was out of work while she was pregnant but trying to get back into working. The jobcentre arranged for him to go on some 2 week course to learn the basics of plastering and that after he asked them to. They messed around, giving him the wrong start dates for about a month, then finally gave him the correct one, and my sister went into labour the next day...however, they would not give him a day off to see his child. He continued going on this course, and was due a payment half way through. His payment never came. After ringing about and getting passed from office to office, he was eventually told that his payments would start up again when the course ended, as since he had voluntarily gone on the course (instred of being forced to...) he would have to make a new claim. Perfect for when you have just had a baby eh? Luckily my dad could lend them what they needed to support the newborn, but it really does make you think...surely they should be WANTING people to help themselves back into work, not have to be forced into it. But they make it as hard as possible to do that it seems :S

That's a typical story of someone trying to help himself and his situation, and getting penalised for it. Unfortunately, the sort of people they often employ as "advisors" (and I use the term loosely), have no clue at all, and simply follow a format without taking into consideration a person's life skills, experience and qualifications. It must be galling, if you have good qualifications, and/or years of professional working experience, to be interviewed and assessed by some little oik with maybe only 5 GCSEs to their name. The whole system seems geared towards demotivating people, and genuine jobseekers are shown very little respect.

If, for example, a Jobseeker takes a temporary job for a couple of months, he has to sign off, and then, when the job finishes, go through the whole process of signing on again, with all the aggro and delays that involves. So 9 times out of 10 they won't bother and who can blame them?

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think it after claiming JSA for 6 months? Not too sure as I was only ever on jobseekers for a fortnight while inbetween jobs (before this job shortage, when it was simple to just get one on the spot). My mate has been unemployed for a year now, and he had to go on some course which was mandatory if he wanted to keep claiming. Know what the ONE WEEK course was for? To make a CV. During the week, they repaid his travel costs, and gave everyone who was on the course £2 a day for their dinner. They were there for 6 hours a day. A total of 30 hours, to do something that he finished in an hour. He said he spent the rest of the time using the internet at the facility.

Another waste of money if you ask me :/

I was once out on a similar course like that. C.V writing, and Job search 5 days a week for 6 hrs. I had to do that for 3 months.

[Shasown]

My neighbour works as a Jobseeker advisor for the New Deal currently, he says the current system isnt much good at encouraging employers to take on new staff.

The current system is undergoing change even while we discuss it, currently jobseekers get phased into 3 different phases or stages depending how long they have been unemployed. The full format of the new system hasnt as yet been finalised, but a few of the incentives for both employers and the jobseeker have been removed. (Free WorkTrials, Government payment of £3000 to the employer for taking on a jobseeker.)

Stage 1 is for 3 months with fortnightly signing on for the duration, at the end of the 3 months the jobseeker then goes onto 6 weeks of weekly signing on.

Stage 2 is where the jobseeker signs on and makes a detailed plan for finding a job with an advisor, duing this there are training courses and work placements. the work placements were in certain areas found to actively prevent some firms from taking on additional workers, an example of this from my neighbour was Tescos, willingly accepting 6 placements continuously for over 2 years and never once offering any of them a job, they would simply have a new placement to replace the old one.

However the jobcentre official policy on this was that the person on the placement would gain valuable experience and a potential reference. Placements are for 12 weeks generally and the person on the placement actually gets about £15 a week on top of the JSA.

Stage 3 then has 6 weeksof weekly signing on and then alternate fortnightly signings back at the normal desks alternating with signing with the jobseeker advisor.

Currently when someone on Jobseekers signs on they have to inform the jobcentre of what jobs they have applied and other jobseeking activities, the Jobcentre can check any of the details at any time and if found to be false the jobseeker risks losing benefit for 6 weeks.


Its a great idea to place long term unemployed into various community based work programs however using them to fill local council shortfalls will only lead to industrial action.

NALGO etc are not going to standby and see their members etc made redundant and then replaced with the unemployed. Its also in violation of Employment laws, you cant declare a position redundant then fill it with a volunteer.

[keithafc]

Originally Posted by Shasown

My neighbour works as a Jobseeker advisor for the New Deal currently, he says the current system isnt much good at encouraging employers to take on new staff.

The current system is undergoing change even while we discuss it, currently jobseekers get phased into 3 different phases or stages depending how long they have been unemployed. The full format of the new system hasnt as yet been finalised, but a few of the incentives for both employers and the jobseeker have been removed. (Free WorkTrials, Government payment of £3000 to the employer for taking on a jobseeker.)

Stage 1 is for 3 months with fortnightly signing on for the duration, at the end of the 3 months the jobseeker then goes onto 6 weeks of weekly signing on.

Stage 2 is where the jobseeker signs on and makes a detailed plan for finding a job with an advisor, duing this there are training courses and work placements. the work placements were in certain areas found to actively prevent some firms from taking on additional workers, an example of this from my neighbour was Tescos, willingly accepting 6 placements continuously for over 2 years and never once offering any of them a job, they would simply have a new placement to replace the old one.

However the jobcentre official policy on this was that the person on the placement would gain valuable experience and a potential reference. Placements are for 12 weeks generally and the person on the placement actually gets about £15 a week on top of the JSA.

Stage 3 then has 6 weeksof weekly signing on and then alternate fortnightly signings back at the normal desks alternating with signing with the jobseeker advisor.

Currently when someone on Jobseekers signs on they have to inform the jobcentre of what jobs they have applied and other jobseeking activities, the Jobcentre can check any of the details at any time and if found to be false the jobseeker risks losing benefit for 6 weeks.


Its a great idea to place long term unemployed into various community based work programs however using them to fill local council shortfalls will only lead to industrial action.

NALGO etc are not going to standby and see their members etc made redundant and then replaced with the unemployed. Its also in violation of Employment laws, you cant declare a position redundant then fill it with a volunteer.

That is the way JSA is set up at the minute.

[Angus]

I agree that there are probably plenty of temporary jobs out there, but the system is geared to make it as difficult as possible for Jobseekers to make the transition back to claiming benefit quickly and efficiently once the job is finished. As Vicky said, it can take weeks to get your jsa once you sign back on, and meanwhile you either live on fresh air, or take out crisis loans (if you can get them). No wonder people are reluctant to do that.

As for mandatory volunteering, it's kind of a contradiction in terms since I don't think it's somehow right to compel someone to "volunteer". Perhaps there could be some way of increasing the JSA a bit for those who are prepared to volunteer, which would give them some sense of worth as well as benefitting the community. After all the majority of people who claim JSA have worked previously and paid their taxes and national insurance contributions, so why should they not receive their benefits without having strings attached?

The only ones who should be compelled to do some sort of community based volunteering are the hard core, long term unemployed, who have demonstrated no will or desire to work at all. If they haven't contributed to their JSA like most of those who claim it have through taxes in previous employment, then they have no right to complain.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by angus58

I agree that there are probably plenty of temporary jobs out there, but the system is geared to make it as difficult as possible for Jobseekers to make the transition back to claiming benefit quickly and efficiently once the job is finished. As Vicky said, it can take weeks to get your jsa once you sign back on, and meanwhile you either live on fresh air, or take out crisis loans (if you can get them). No wonder people are reluctant to do that.

As for mandatory volunteering, it's kind of a contradiction in terms since I don't think it's somehow right to compel someone to "volunteer". Perhaps there could be some way of increasing the JSA a bit for those who are prepared to volunteer, which would give them some sense of worth as well as benefitting the community. After all the majority of people who claim JSA have worked previously and paid their taxes and national insurance contributions, so why should they not receive their benefits without having strings attached?

The only ones who should be compelled to do some sort of community based volunteering are the hard core, long term unemployed, who have demonstrated no will or desire to work at all. If they haven't contributed to their JSA like most of those who claim it have through taxes in previous employment, then they have no right to complain.

Great post and your last paragraph is impossible to dispute at all.