[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And 2 whole weeks will do that?

A much better way to do this (not that the government actually think about things properly...all they care about is numbers) is make it a 3 month placement with a chance of a proper job at the end of it. And pay the person for doing it...maybe not minimum wage(though that would be preferable...as then they get used to having a REAL wage too...which would give incentive to work to most), but they SHOULD be better off than being on the dole. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to give stores such as poundland/tescos etc free work. They can afford to pay people.

Other than that, make the placements in places such as charity shops...who actually are crying out for workers and arent as rich as chainstores.

I've no idea. What I do know is that regardless: she's moaning about being asked to do some work for 2 weeks - whilst receiving JSA.

I really don't see what the fuss is about.

If anything, it may make her realise just how hard people in these types of jobs actually have to work. Like I said, given her rather selective career path: she might have to take such a job permanently.

Hundreds, thousands of companies offer these type of placements - to Uni students etc: even if short term: I don't see the harm it will do her. It may not be of huge benefit, but it most certainly won't do her any hard to work full time for 10 whole days.

It's not exactly asking her to push the boat out. She comes across as it simply being 'demeaning' in her eyes.

[Vicky.]

Meh I dunno. It just seems so pointless. No-one will get anything out of it...besides big companies who get a bit of free labour(who do not NEED free labour)

The scroungers (who this is meant to punish) will find ways to get out of doing it, much like they know how to work the current system to their advantage, they always do. And even if they didnt, 2 weeks is nothing. It wont show them the benefits of working as opposed to being on the dole...as they arent getting paid (the main benefit of working being a decent wage rather than the 50 quid a week you get on jsa..I would say anyway)...it wont help them get a job in the future as 2 weeks work experience will make no difference...it wont really show them what its like to work full time, as its only 2 weeks worth, and if its anything like the other government courses you are allowed to have 2-4 days off during that 2 weeks too. So technically you could get away with doing only 6 days.

Its not about getting people back into work at all. Its about finding ways to twist the figures...and thats pretty much it :/

[Saph]

She needs to put some makeup on, get down to the stripclub and make some serious cash.

[MTVN]

Thing is if Poundland want people to stack their shelves and sweep their floors than they should damn well have to pay them the minimum wage for it, not have the government subsidise unpaid labour for them which is just going to be to the detriment of their other employees, why would they take on more workers and give them a decent salary when the Coalition is giving them free labour on a plate.

If these 2 week placements really have to take place (and I don't think they should) than why not have them done somewhere more useful, in charity shops or helping out with other voluntary projects around community's or something like that

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Thing is if Poundland want people to stack their shelves and sweep their floors than they should damn well have to pay them the minimum wage for it, not have the government subsidise unpaid labour for them which is just going to be to the detriment of their other employees, why give your other workers a decent salary when the Coalition is giving you free labour on a plate.

If these 2 week placements really have to take place (and I don't think they should) than why not have them done somewhere more useful, in charity shops or helping out with other voluntary projects around community's or something like that

Most charity shops and community work requires people to have CRB's - that can take weeks - that could be an influencing factor.

I really don't see the issue at all.

[arista]

Originally Posted by SaphLiike

She needs to put some makeup on, get down to the stripclub and make some serious cash.

No thats against her Left Wing Politics.


Sign Of The Times

[Vicky.]

The issue...is that this free labour should be real jobs going to people who actually want to be off the dole(they are not as rare as the media would have you believe). Not people forced to work there...for no real reason... and the government still forking out JSA to them while the 'employers' pay nowt.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The issue...is that this free labour should be real jobs going to people who actually want to be off the dole(they are not as rare as the media would have you believe). Not people forced to work there...for no real reason... and the government still forking out JSA to them while the 'employers' pay nowt.

No Vicky
It did her Good


She gets Paid.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

No Vicky
It did her Good


She gets Paid.

She doesnt get paid...she gets her JSA that she would get anyway.

Im not arguing against this one particular story anyway, Im arguing against the whole scheme in general

[Livia]

There is no disgrace in honest toil. A prospective employer will probably be impressed she's got off her backside and done something rather than sitting around taking benefits while she waits for a plum job. There are plenty of graduates doing unskilled jobs.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

She doesnt get paid...she gets her JSA that she would get anyway.

Im not arguing against this one particular story anyway, Im arguing against the whole scheme in general

Not Any More



You Do what You Are Told




Labour Failed.

Conservative-LibDem get it Right.

[Shasown]

Given that the girl wants to continue working in charity shops as a career path, though not on a strictly voluntary basis. I think its a bit daft that they didnt just assign her work in a charity shop as opposed to a chain store that can actually afford to employ people to do the job she was forced into as a placement.

If the jobsworths in the Department of Work and Pensions actually pulled their fingers from their arses and did the job they were supposed to do, they could have approached the shop where she was working voluntarily and asked them to do the placement.

Or is that simply a question of common sense prevailing over bureacracy?

Mind you suing because she had to stop her voluntary work and follow guidelines she has signed up for by claiming jobseekers allowable is a bit laughable.

But this is the sort of thing we can expect in todays society after all where there is blame there is a claim.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

She doesnt get paid...she gets her JSA that she would get anyway.

Im not arguing against this one particular story anyway, Im arguing against the whole scheme in general

She won't if she doesn't toe the line and so what she's told .......

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

She won't if she doesn't toe the line and so what she's told .......

And don't let's forget that she is probably receiving non contributory JSA, so she is hardly in a position to call the shots. If she doesn't want to work in Poundland no-one is "forcing" her, but then she will have to forego the JSA that other people's taxes have funded.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Angus

And don't let's forget that she is probably receiving non contributory JSA, so she is hardly in a position to call the shots. If she doesn't want to work in Poundland no-one is "forcing" her, but then she will have to forego the JSA that other people's taxes have funded.

Quite.

Happy enough to take money when she's most likely not even paid into the coffers in the first instance, yet she moans the first time she gets a chance.

Correct, no one is forcing her. If she is so appalled and so against it - let her fund herself then instead. She has a choice - she doesn't LIKE the choices she has though: and that's her problem.

[Shasown]

I say its all a tad dramatic.

Do you really think she is workshy? Or just kicking up a fuss to maybe get some attention that she didnt receive at home?

You reckon she went to uni gained a degree then plans to sit on her ass claiming JSA with letters behind her name for the rest of her days?

As for no contributions to the tax system etc so far, she may have had previous jobs, she may have paid taxes, her parents may be fantastically rich and have paid taxes all their lives at super rate. None that really matters. She will hopefully contribute to the system in the future. Thats one of the basic principles behind the UK Welfare State.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Exactly.

This new scheme is stupid and will only end up with more people unemployed in the long run, once employers realise they can get free labour instead of paying min wage to their current workers

Yeah some will say it will be monitored so that this doesnt happen...the government couldnt monitor their own toilet habits, nevermind something like this.

Olllllld thread, but told ya this would happen.

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/

This week, Boycott Workfare has been contacted by a concerned member of staff working at high street retailer Shoe Zone. Their first hand experience, which they bravely wanted to share with us all, provides yet more evidence that workfare is replacing paid jobs. As with Argos and Superdrug, Shoezone are using ‘work experience’ from the job centre to cover the busy Christmas period instead of employing temporary staff or giving current staff the option of over-time.

I dont understand how ANYONE can defend workfare at all. Even if you think jobseekers are scroungers and that, surely you can see that this is bad for the country? Ridding us of paid jobs and replacing them with free staff while allowing massive companies to up their profits at the cost of the tax payer.

[Kizzy]

Me either, a friend of my nephew just worked very hard in his local halfords,he was so sure he had the chance of a more permanant position.
His manager was singing his praises, and he worked well with other staff.
Two weeks later the store won't return his emails, his jobcentre advisor has recieved no feedback, and a new recruit from the workfare programme has started work....

[King Gizzard]

JC/DWP is a complete and utter joke with the sole intention of finding ways to get innocent people off benefits and not actually helping them obtain long term work

[arista]

Originally Posted by Nathan

JC/DWP is a complete and utter joke with the sole intention of finding ways to get innocent people off benefits and not actually helping them obtain long term work

They are changing how it works, now.

[Kizzy]

The guardian online has posted that only 3.5% of those on workforce get long term work.
Will the government now admit it's a sham?

[Vicky.]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...fits-programme

Getting better

Sick and disabled to be forced to do free work too.

from that article

The MWA scheme also does not work. The DWP's most recent study is clear about its efficacy: it has zero effect on increasing people's chances of getting a job. Nevertheless, the idea of forcing those on benefits to undertake weeks and months of unpaid work has spread. In August the London mayor, Boris Johnson, announced he was using European social fund money to force 18- to 24-year-olds to commit themselves to 13 weeks of unpaid work.

So why keep pushing with it eh? Why so keen to provide free labour for businesses?

[Kizzy]

I don't know vicky... It's disgusting how anyone can justify this slave labour I don't know!
An honest days work for a decent days pay that is the only way that society will prosper.
I don't know where they are getting these policies from...
the 1880's from the sounds of it!

[Marcus.]

silly girl

[Kizzy]

Who is silly and why???