[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Alcohol is only dangerous if you abuse it, and I don't believe for a second that cannabis breeds wonderful serene human beings..
In my experience those who have regularly used over time become paranoid.
We are advised not to drive or operate machinery whilst taking certain medications as they could cause drowsiness and dull reactions, would cannabis not do this?

There's an air of double standards here Kizzy, Alcohol's okay because it's only dangerous if abused but Cannabis isn't acceptable even though the health risks involved are nowhere near as bad?

The people you have known have probably used bad batches, Stu's earlier post pretty much deals with the paranoia bit quite handily. It's caused by bad plants rather then the drug itself. Places in which it's legalised most likely have regulations and guidelines when it comes to growing plants correctly.

As for your last point, if that's the case then why not ban aclcohol since drink driving is a lot more prevalent. You can't really make a point against Cannabis without inadvertently making a more damning case against Alcohol.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's an air of double standards here Kizzy, Alcohol's okay because it's only dangerous if abused but Cannabis isn't acceptable even though the health risks involved are nowhere near as bad?

The people you have known have probably used bad batches, Stu's earlier post pretty much deals with the paranoia bit quite handily. It's caused by bad plants rather then the drug itself. Places in which it's legalised most likely have regulations and guidelines when it comes to growing plants correctly.

As for your last point, if that's the case then why not ban aclcohol since drink driving is a lot more prevalent. You can't really make a point against Cannabis without inadvertently making a more damning case against Alcohol.

Nobody knows for certain how bad the potential health risks could be.
How would the authorities know the source of your cannabis ?
Your last point makes no sense to me... If I make a point against cannabis, how on earth does that affect anything in relation to alcohol consumption and the associated health and social implications of it?...
I am not advocating people drink alcohol, all I am suggesting is people don't use cannabis.
That is not a double standard.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Nobody knows for certain how bad the potential health risks could be.
How would the authorities know the source of your cannabis ?
Your last point makes no sense to me... If I make a point against cannabis, how on earth does that affect anything in relation to alcohol consumption and the associated health and social implications of it?...
I am not advocating people drink alcohol, all I am suggesting is people don't use cannabis.
That is not a double standard.

Except the health risks involved with Cannabis are widely known and they are less dangerous then cigerattes and alcohol?

In these two states growing your own cannabis is still illegal, you have to purchase it and chances are the sellers will have to adhere to guidelines and regulations involving the growing and cultivation as well as probably having a license or a permit to actually sell the product. In places where it's legal they aren't just letting anyone sell it.

You've defended alcohol by saying it's only dangerous when you abuse it but you aren't willing to extend the same train of thought to Cannabis although it's medically proven to be less harmful then Alcohol and you've tried to dream up various scenarios where it would be dangerous to partake in it when in fact if you replaced it with Alcohol it would make the situation more treacherous.

[Ramsay]

Dezzy, perfection

[Kizzy]

I taught a class on drug awareness to level 2 National Diploma student as part of my Public Services degree.
However you can think whatever you like.

[Tom4784]

I struggle to believe that given how little you've shown yourself to know in this thread but whatever you say Kizzy.

[Kizzy]

If you had offered anything in the way of proof for your claims I might have posted some stats or evidence to support my opinion.

[Tom4784]

Oh Kizzy just stop, you've already admitted defeat and this is just getting sad. I've made several good points that you've chosen to ignore so why should I make an effort when you'll ignore anything I post anyway?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh Kizzy just stop, you've already admitted defeat and this is just getting sad. I've made several good points that you've chosen to ignore so why should I make an effort when you'll ignore anything I post anyway?

In my opinion they were not good points..they were unsubstantiated nonsense.
When you chose to insult a forum member due to the fact they disagreed with your 'facts' you negated your whole argument dezzy.
As you said this is serious debates.. I was far from defeated, just shocked at your outburst in this section.

[Tom4784]

I don't care about anything you have to say because we're three pages in and you haven't provided a decent argument yet. You can find evidence of my claims all around since I've stated nothing that isn't already widely known.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't care about anything you have to say because we're three pages in and you haven't provided a decent argument yet. You can find evidence of my claims all around since I've stated nothing that isn't already widely known.

You have posted nothing of any merit, I have asked you to reveal the sources of your information and you refuse.

If I post some information for you will you please stop insulting me?
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvic.../cannabis.aspx

There you go, once again can I say I do not agree with the legalisation.

[Ammi]

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/11..._marijuana.php

http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

http://phys.org/news157280425.html

http://blog.norml.org/2011/11/01/stu...ot-is-illegal/

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificac...-and-tobacc-1/

http://scienceblogs.com/scientificac...-and-tobacc-1/

...alcohol is more harmful than Cannabis...that much isn't really debateable..it's just a question of whether people agree with it being legalised.....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

You have posted nothing of any merit, I have asked you to reveal the sources of your information and you refuse.

If I post some information for you will you please stop insulting me?
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/expertadvic.../cannabis.aspx

There you go, once again can I say I do not agree with the legalisation.

Because the information I've posted is simply common knowledge, if you did even a little research you'd see that a lot of what I'm saying is correct. You keep going on the offensive demanding me to pretty much reference everything when really fact checking someone's argument is the job of the opposition.

I've made claims and you have not been able to refute them at all, all you've tried to do is cast aspersions in order to deflect from the fact that you haven't got an argument.

I'll give you one last chance, I'll basically compile a brief overview of all my points to see if you can counter any of them without being evasive or resorting to any of your usual tricks.

Pros of Cannabis
- Less toxic then the likes of cigarettes or Alcohol. To overdose on Cannabis you have to smoke around a thousand joints in 10 minutes to reach fatal toxic levels which is pretty much impossible to do.
- It's a powerful painkiller that (leading on from my previous point) is impossible to overdose on and the side effects CAN be lesser than that of some prescription drugs.
- There's no recorded deaths attributed to Cannabis, there's thousands every year because of smoking and Alcohol.
- Partaking in it can actually help prevent the effects of a lot of diseases. Some of which include Alzheimer's, MS, Hepatitis, Epilepsy and Depression. There's plenty of other illnesses it helps with as well.
- Less addictive and generally safer than legal substances.
- Generally calms people down so there's less chance of Anti-Social behavior then there might be if someone was drunk.

I'm pretty sure I've made more points on the subject that I can't quite remember. The only negative that's been stated about it is the psychological aspect which other members have stated is down to bad growth which in countries where it's legal it isn't as much of a problem since there's guidelines and regulations involved that prevent legitimate stores from selling bad Cannabis.

A bad batch could mess with your mind, Home made beer that's incorrectly brewed can kill you.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because the information I've posted is simply common knowledge, if you did even a little research you'd see that a lot of what I'm saying is correct. You keep going on the offensive demanding me to pretty much reference everything when really fact checking someone's argument is the job of the opposition.

I've made claims and you have not been able to refute them at all, all you've tried to do is cast aspersions in order to deflect from the fact that you haven't got an argument.

I'll give you one last chance, I'll basically compile a brief overview of all my points to see if you can counter any of them without being evasive or resorting to any of your usual tricks.

Pros of Cannabis
- Less toxic then the likes of cigarettes or Alcohol. To overdose on Cannabis you have to smoke around a thousand joints in 10 minutes to reach fatal toxic levels which is pretty much impossible to do.
- It's a powerful painkiller that (leading on from my previous point) is impossible to overdose on and the side effects CAN be lesser than that of some prescription drugs.
- There's no recorded deaths attributed to Cannabis, there's thousands every year because of smoking and Alcohol.
- Partaking in it can actually help prevent the effects of a lot of diseases. Some of which include Alzheimer's, MS, Hepatitis, Epilepsy and Depression. There's plenty of other illnesses it helps with as well.
- Less addictive and generally safer than legal substances.
- Generally calms people down so there's less chance of Anti-Social behavior then there might be if someone was drunk.

I'm pretty sure I've made more points on the subject that I can't quite remember. The only negative that's been stated about it is the psychological aspect which other members have stated is down to bad growth which in countries where it's legal it isn't as much of a problem since there's guidelines and regulations involved that prevent legitimate stores from selling bad Cannabis.

A bad batch could mess with your mind, Home made beer that's incorrectly brewed can kill you.

No dezzy you are offensive!

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...
Thats why prescription drugs are only available on prescription...and the advice states clearly with them there may be side effects, however it may be more detrimental to your health not to take them if you have a medical condition.
Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.
It cannot 'prevent the effects' at best it may alleviate the symptoms as it relaxes muscles thats all..
You cannot suggest it is any more or less addictive than any other 'substance'
You may initially find it calms you down, fast forward 3yrs you are a paranoid wreck...what then?

Can we stop now?
I don't agree with the legalisation of cannabis
I'm sure I am not the only person in the UK.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kizzy

No dezzy you are offensive!

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...
Thats why prescription drugs are only available on prescription...and the advice states clearly with them there may be side effects, however it may be more detrimental to your health not to take them if you have a medical condition.
Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.
It cannot 'prevent the effects' at best it may alleviate the symptoms as it relaxes muscles thats all..
You cannot suggest it is any more or less addictive than any other 'substance'
You may initially find it calms you down, fast forward 3yrs you are a paranoid wreck...what then?

Can we stop now?
I don't agree with the legalisation of cannabis
I'm sure I am not the only person in the UK.

Nothing but evasive tactics and ignoring a good chunk of my post once again. Why did I even expect anything different from you? Welcome to my ignore list, I have no interest in talking to someone who can't even discuss things properly. It's boring and you are boring me.

[iRyan]

Thank you Dezzy for having the patience to deal with this ignorance. But there's two statements that really made me laugh that I just had to respond to:

Originally Posted by kizzy

You use cannabis with tobacco so the same risks apply...

No you don't. Only some people do, but you certainly do not need to mix them by any means.

Originally Posted by kizzy

Again, you have to smoke to use cannabis ...the risk of death is the same.

This is also false. I know many people, especially those in the medical marijuana community, who use marijuana but don't smoke it. You can feel the affects of marijuana just the same by ingesting it or by using a vaporizer - which extracts THC without any smoke, it's completely harmless.

I'm sorry but this just further demonstrates your ignorance on the topic.

[Niamh.]

I agree Ammi, you can't really think alcohol is fine on one hand and think cannabis is the devil on the other, it doesn't make any sense.

On a personal level, I don't know anyone who has a cannabis problem but I know plenty of people who's lives have been ruined by drink

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree Ammi, you can't really think alcohol is fine on one hand and think cannabis is the devil on the other, it doesn't make any sense.

On a personal level, I don't know anyone who has a cannabis problem but I know plenty of people who's lives have been ruined by drink

..I feel if there are any emotional or physcological issues, they are inherent in the user and could possibly be enhanced by whatever substance they choose to use...but that choice is theirs and can not be blamed on the cannabis....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I feel if there are any emotional or physcological issues, they are inherent in the user and could possibly be enhanced by whatever substance they choose to use...but that choice is theirs and can not be blamed on the cannabis....

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

..yes thank you Kizzy..that stregthens the point that it's the user and not the substance...certain people with inherent mental issues should certainly refrain from using it...the onus is on them.....

...that saved me looking it up..well done...

Can't we just spark up some funky buddha and all get along?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

..no, Kizzy, it says in your report they are not....

..the only ones which may not be reversable are those which already existed....

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kizzy

I say it can.
QUOTE:
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?

Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:

Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later.

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.

There are changes, they just may happen at different times due to the individual. 3yrs, 6, 9...

[Ammi]

..you need to carry on highlighting down as I did, where it states these cases may be particularly vulnerable and so should avoid it....

..nothing can legislate against everything and people do have to take some responsibility for themselves....if anything i.e a prescribed drug is having any adverse effects then the obvious and logical thing would be to stop taking it......

..and if anyone who has any inherent mental issues chooses to use cannabis and ignore any issues which may arise, then I wouldn't have thought it being legal or illegal will make the slightest bit of difference.....therefore I say legalise it...it is comparitably less harmful than other legal substances...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree Ammi, you can't really think alcohol is fine on one hand and think cannabis is the devil on the other, it doesn't make any sense.

On a personal level, I don't know anyone who has a cannabis problem but I know plenty of people who's lives have been ruined by drink

Who is saying this?..
I agree with ammi, nobody is suggesting alcohol isn't dangerous.. This is a debate into whether cannabis should be legalised, they are two seperate issues.

I know people who's lives have been ruined by both.