[the truth]

Originally Posted by hijaxers

Hey wouldn't it be great if all the miners turned up and threw coal at her coffin !!

the miners are above this, they showed way more dignity than she ever did. the miners are heroes to a man. theres a 1000 years of world class coal left , but she flooded the mines after shutting them. thankfully slowly but surely theyre reopening several drift and open cast mines in wales. no one in SOUTHERN england seems to begin to appreciate what king coal means to the welsh, there is also the abandonment of the slate quariies, the lime, the wool, the gold , the silver, the copper, the steel too.....cardiff was the single biggest coal exporter IN THE WORLD...the 1st ever million pound business deal on record took place at the coal exchange in tiger bay....all the gold you see on the queens throne and the house of lords is ALL pure welsh gold. wales is the oldest inhabited part of the UK and perhaps its for this reason its grown so rich in some resources or perhaps this is why the original britions lived in wales.

mining had taken place in wales for at least 750 years, hirwaun was the biggest coal pit in the world, blaenavon alone had 130 drift mines, hundreds of thousands flocked to wales for this massive industiral revolution, visit cardiff bay (tiger bay) today and you will still find a multi cultural happy community where many people are black or mixed race. they were welcomed with open arms and the local working class people showed very little racism towards them. ask any black person from that area and he / she will confirm this remarkable community of people.

the blaenau ffesitniog slate quarry is sstill the biggest in the world and all those communites were 100% self sufficient building homes from the slate, fuelled by the coal and exporting to the world via cardiff and llandudno, wales also produced 66% of the entire worlds copper using recipes 4000 years old and refined in the great orme north wales, it was this ingeuity that gave the welsh the reputation for being mercurial and mystical people and lead to them using the mythical dragon as its national emblm... they were living the dream in many ways

Ive read the 5th century mabinogion and the welsh/britons were a free spirited people, they didnt wish to have leaders or to be lead. this ultimately made them relatively peaceful home loving self sufficient tribes. but also made them vulnerable to attacks by the vikings, the anglo saxons and the french in future centuries...

all the coal and copper and cannonballs for lord nelsons ships were produced in wales, the copper was placed on the bottom of british ships and made them unsinkable which in turn helped him defeat the french and ultimately let britain rule the waves for a few centuries

delighted to say though tata has a huge mine reopening in port talbot to fuel its steel works , still the largest in the uk. theyve used new methods of drilling to find the rich seams easier and as a drift mine will be able to use machinery to find this coal with far less danger, ill health and greater safety.
the little steam trains remain and the coal mining expertise remains and has been passed on from one generation to another. when the welsh suffered harship they quietly left and took their industrial expertise to argentina, pennsylvania (usa) and russia to name but a few. their ingenuity in these areas and in forming the unions to run them proved massively successful. welsh communities were built and pennsylvania was named after welsh immigrant william penn, they settled there as the place best suited to their industrial agenda and also most similar to wales itself.

maggie thatchers destruction of coal will be remembered but the spirit and heritage of these great people will outlast her disastrous industrial legacy

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by James

The possibility that there is going to be protests reminds me a bit of the activities of the Westboro Baptist Church.

How? The activities at Westboro Baptist Church have not one thing in common with this issue.

[James]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How? The activities at Westboro Baptist Church have not one thing in common with this issue.

They organise demonstrations at funerals, which are supposed to be respectful occasions. They are not political events.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Its not all tax payers
some of it is paid by her Estate

All of it,not some of it,should be paid by her estate and other interested parties, nothing should have to be paid from Govt funds from taxpayers.
Not a single pence.

Neither should taxpayers fund any other Prime Minister's funeral in any way too.
I doubt many would have not agreed with Winston Churchill's funeral being funded by the State but certainly no other PMs should be.

This funding of her funeral with public funds in part and all this near proclaiming her a Saint is going to really sour this funeral.
This is really becoming bizarre now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by James

They organise demonstrations at funerals, which are supposed to be respectful occasions. They are not political events.

Don't get me wrong I'm not condoning any protests at her funeral far from it, and as I have said in the other thread I believe it plays right into the hands of those who seek suppress the opinions across many communities in the UK if they were to do this.
However I do see it as inevitable, this crass display of elitist squandering of public funds will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

the miners are above this, they showed way more dignity than she ever did. the miners are heroes to a man. theres a 1000 years of world class coal left , but she flooded the mines after shutting them. thankfully slowly but surely theyre reopening several drift and open cast mines in wales. no one in SOUTHERN england seems to begin to appreciate what king coal means to the welsh, there is also the abandonment of the slate quariies, the lime, the wool, the gold , the silver, the copper, the steel too.....cardiff was the single biggest coal exporter IN THE WORLD...the 1st ever million pound business deal on record took place at the coal exchange in tiger bay....all the gold you see on the queens throne and the house of lords is ALL pure welsh gold. wales is the oldest inhabited part of the UK and perhaps its for this reason its grown so rich in some resources or perhaps this is why the original britions lived in wales.

mining had taken place in wales for at least 750 years, hirwaun was the biggest coal pit in the world, blaenavon alone had 130 drift mines, hundreds of thousands flocked to wales for this massive industiral revolution, visit cardiff bay (tiger bay) today and you will still find a multi cultural happy community where many people are black or mixed race. they were welcomed with open arms and the local working class people showed very little racism towards them. ask any black person from that area and he / she will confirm this remarkable community of people.

the blaenau ffesitniog slate quarry is sstill the biggest in the world and all those communites were 100% self sufficient building homes from the slate, fuelled by the coal and exporting to the world via cardiff and llandudno, wales also produced 66% of the entire worlds copper using recipes 4000 years old and refined in the great orme north wales, it was this ingeuity that gave the welsh the reputation for being mercurial and mystical people and lead to them using the mythical dragon as its national emblm... they were living the dream in many ways

Ive read the 5th century mabinogion and the welsh/britons were a free spirited people, they didnt wish to have leaders or to be lead. this ultimately made them relatively peaceful home loving self sufficient tribes. but also made them vulnerable to attacks by the vikings, the anglo saxons and the french in future centuries...

all the coal and copper and cannonballs for lord nelsons ships were produced in wales, the copper was placed on the bottom of british ships and made them unsinkable which in turn helped him defeat the french and ultimately let britain rule the waves for a few centuries

delighted to say though tata has a huge mine reopening in port talbot to fuel its steel works , still the largest in the uk. theyve used new methods of drilling to find the rich seams easier and as a drift mine will be able to use machinery to find this coal with far less danger, ill health and greater safety.
the little steam trains remain and the coal mining expertise remains and has been passed on from one generation to another. when the welsh suffered harship they quietly left and took their industrial expertise to argentina, pennsylvania (usa) and russia to name but a few. their ingenuity in these areas and in forming the unions to run them proved massively successful. welsh communities were built and pennsylvania was named after welsh immigrant william penn, they settled there as the place best suited to their industrial agenda and also most similar to wales itself.

maggie thatchers destruction of coal will be remembered but the spirit and heritage of these great people will outlast her disastrous industrial legacy

You and I have not agreed a lot recently but I found this a fascinating post to read and so really well said The Truth.

[Kizzy]

I agree, a very informative and interesting post truth thanks

[Kizzy]

''The coffin bearing Lady Thatcher's body will be carried through central London to her funeral service in a horsedrawn gun carriage attended by an honour guard of more than 700 military personnel, while gun salutes are fired from the Tower of London, the Ministry of Defence has said.

The former prime minister may have requested a ceremonial rather than state funeral before her death, but the published arrangements reveal plans for an event involving scarcely less pomp – and one carefully calculated to burnish her image as a military leader and emphasise Britain's victory in the Falklands war.''

Just sickening.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...tary-personnel

[Livia]

The Truth's long soliloquy does not address the fact - and I raised this earlier but no one addressed my point, predictably - that our coal mines during the late 70s and early 80s were so uneconomical that we were importing coal from Australia. Australia! It was actually cheaper to bring it half way around the world than it was to dig it out of our own ground. While miners were claiming pay rises of around 30%, the tax payer was keeping the unprofitable mines going. It was unsustainable.

[Scarlett.]

Yes, yes, the mines were unprofitable, but Thatcher pulled the support plug on them without a second thought to the economy of the towns that survived off them. There was no support net for those who would be left jobless. That is the issue that people have with what Thatcher did, the industries were suffering, but Thatcher pulled the plug on them without even thinking about any of the communities that would suffer.

[Livia]

Were the unions and the miners not aware that the mines were unprofitable and being supported by the taxpayer? Did it come as a shock to them? I actually agree that the government of the day was wrong not to put in a support network for those areas affected by mass unemployment. However, I also think that the unions claiming 30% payrises and striking every time they didn't get their own way, are culpable. It wasn't the government that made British coal mines uneconomical, it was the unions.

[Kizzy]

I did address the point livia and I have to say your interpretation of what happened is suitably skewed.
We we told the seams were exhausted, that was the reason for pits closing, but that was later found to be a lie after she had had the mines flooded.

[Cherie]

2,000 invited to the funeral including "celebs" Shirley Bassey, Jeremy Clarkson and Terry Wogan :

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

2,000 invited to the funeral including "celebs" like Shirley Bassey :

This is getting ridiculous now, it's near turning into a circus. Yet we are asked to show respect, for what, this overblown sort of show.
How dare any money from public funding be used for this. I can think of far more deserving causes than this.

I cannot see the slightest merit in the way this is being planned and set out.

[InOne]

Is it going to be on TV?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by InOne

Is it going to be on TV?

I think you will be able to be sure of that 100% InOne.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This is getting ridiculous now, it's near turning into a circus. Yet we are asked to show respect, for what, this overblown sort of show.
How dare any money from public funding be used for this. I can think of far more deserving causes than this.

I cannot see the slightest merit in the way this is being planned and set out.

Indeed. I have no idea who is driving this whether it is Cameron et al, or Mark T et al, but whoever it is has not got their finger anywhere near the pulse of how the nation is feeling, and I don't care how much of an EU rebate Thatcher got, that was her job to do the best for England. If an accountant gets a nice fat tax rebate for his client he doens't expect the client to pay for his funeral :

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by InOne

Is it going to be on TV?

Pay per view.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Cherie

2,000 invited to the funeral including "celebs" Shirley Bassey, Jeremy Clarkson and Terry Wogan :

What's next, a performance by One Direction outside St Paul's and a ****ing firework display?

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Pay per view.

Sounds about right!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Indeed. I have no idea who is driving this whether it is Cameron et al, or Mark T et al, but whoever it is has not got their finger anywhere near the pulse of how the nation is feeling, and I don't care how much of an EU rebate Thatcher got, that was her job to do the best for England. If an accountant gets a nice fat tax rebate for his client he doens't expect the client to pay for his funeral :

Totally agree Cherie, I am just dismayed at the tackiness of it all now. It is becoming a farce.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by InOne

Is it going to be on TV?

Yep, for three hours from 9:15am on BBC1

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/wb...oness-thatcher

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yep, for three hours from 9:15am on BBC1

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/wb...oness-thatcher

Ahhh, I'm not in the country then anyway.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jack_

What's next, a performance by One Direction outside St Paul's and a ****ing firework display?

Missed this post before, great response Jack.

[the truth]

whats new? the elitists in london have never given a damn about the masses....except on election week....the vast majority of british prime ministers have actually all come from the same class in eton....does anyone bellieve the UK is a real democracy? its a constitutional monarchy, class, insider dealing for the chosen few and in breeding is all that counts. how do you think these clowns end up with 100s of millions of pounds? hard work lol

The fact is the unions failed but thatcher went from one extreme to another and failed even worse. she wasnt even capable of having a conversation or an analysis to work out which pits were most economic. she didnt even look to prvatise them, which for her us surprising.

all she had to do in 1979 was lower taxes and yes privatise a companies.
instead she privatised nearly all the wrong things, put taxes up on small businesses and the working man/woman

to be frank, I think she was the single worst leader we have ever had.....she had a 10/15 year boom , but now were bust

people ask why didnt anyone turn it around? how she destroyed manufacturing base and drowned the mines. we have barely any industry left. meanwhile the germans as always seemed to build astronger more balanced economy where public and private worked together to keep industries strong

thatcher was an idiotic and selfish mean spirited pm

the total lie she was somehow for the aspiring small businessman (somehow her dad being a greengrocer was endlessly used as a reason for us to believe she was a supporter of the little man- LIES) is disproved by

- more than doubling vat
- rasing fuel prices and tax on fuel prices every year
-scrapping apprenticeships
-removing any incentive to employ
-increased regulation on small business
-increased national insurance
-raised taxes on the poor
-fuel pverty thanks to her creating utilies monopolies. energy/water/pricaes have gone up by over 1000% in real terms since thatcher came into power. how many have frozen to death, tens of thousands.

oh but wait she let people buy their homes? to buy your home you had to give up any housing benefit allowance....were these people really better off? oh and spening on social housing fell 68% under thatcher... meanwhile she deregulated the corporations, gave less support to agriculture and allowed the supermarkets to collude and fix prices

meanwhile the majority of steel works and industrial plants she did close, yes and some were very profitable, she dismantled brick by brick and reassembled in africa , where workers were paid peanuts and the tories sat on the board as shareholders.

meanwhile her son was an arms dealer

terrific people eh?

thatcher enslaved us to corporate greed. our exports collapsed. all the things she said like dont spend what you dont have etc she did the OPPOSITE. UK has over £1 trillion public debts but $9 trillion total debts (thats $144,000 each) were at war because we cant afford not to be...did she ever hear of dont put all your eggs in one basket? well she did....all finance and servives, no industry, no productivity, no exports....and she didnt see it coming? everyone else with a brain did

her plan was a small and spiteful plan scribbled on the back of a postage stamp.
the fact she wouldnt collaborate with anyone, she wouldnt find common ground, she wouldnt listen, compromise or reach agreements with people with shared interests , meant in the end she was the rich mans puppet. nothing more. somehow her idiotic negotiation skills are lauded as great and even amusing. in reality its bone headed. she didnt work in union with anyone unless then 100% cowtowed to her every demand. she didnt have the patience or empathy for any subtlety or nuance. her long term plan for the UK is a disaster

heseltine did one thing right when he got her booted out....mind you he was just as guilty about selling off the crown jewels