[joeysteele]

I think when you have someone who has near been stripped of a lot of status and then finds the law stripping them of further status, not because they have done anything legally wrong but only because they are sick,disabled,vulnerable or even just on a low income then that action against them would also remover much of their dignity.

Many people don't like admitting they cannot cope, they don't ask for help, they fear a no or sort yourself out attitude.

I don't say the Govt caused this suicide obviously but I do 100% believe in part this Govt policy caused so much anxiety and panic and fear of shame too that it was the final push to make this poor woman take such a desperate measure.
That policy and for that effect I do strongly believe this Govts. bedroom charge/tax was in a very great part a contributory factor in being the final push to this tragedy.

[Suze]

With regards to the money offered for each bedroom, it obviously varies from place to place. Here is it £1,000 a bedroom with removal costs, and that is not assured, there is nothing to say everyone who take up the offer of moving will get it. Also that money won't go far in replacing carpets etc; in moving. The upheaval itself away from possibly family and friends, and also the trauma of the move itself especially for the disabled has to be considered, plus the fact as has been pointed out, there are not going to be the properties available for all who require the smaller properties so they have to carry on paying the bedroom tax.

Not all councils are happy to implicate it, and one of my sisters told me where she is, there are some three bedroomed flats that where one bedroom is so small, the council not consider that as 3 bedroomed property so have taken it upon themselves to declare them 2 bedroomed to help those in the properties re the bedroom tax.

I feel sure in time a loophole of some kind will be found that the tax is wrong and it will be done away with. I respect the debates of all for and againsts this goverment policy on this site. At the end of day imo this is a greedy government who are down on the most needy and going the wrong way about a lot of their Policies. A Goverment that is happy to take from the poor and needy without any compassion, yet want a substancial payrise at the same time. The bedroom tax is the tip of the iceberg and as time goes on I can see a stand being made against this Government by many. IMO, there is no way whatsoever they will be our next Goverment, although a lot of damage will have been done.

A lot of blame can be laid at previous Governements feet, and in a lot of instances rightly so, but it doesn't mean each subsequent Goverment need carry on such mistakes, and if you keep going back to previous Goverments mistakes, it pretty much started around the Thatcher era, another Tory Government.

There, I have said my piece and will leave it at that. Just needed that little rant

[joeysteele]

Rant away Suze,really strong and good points.

I also cannot see this Govt being the next Govt either and I also really believe as this policy hits more and more,with more heard about the injustice and heartlessness of it that this will in fact be one of the major nails in this Govts. coffin.
I have said that since I started learning more as to it and hearing for myself from people affected by it.

Like the Woman of 55 I spoke to a few months ago, she has 2 Grandchildren a girl and a boy, she has had to move to a one bedroomed flat which also only has a sitting room, not of any great size itself either.
Her Grandchildren used to love going to stay with her in the Summer holidays and other school holiday periods too and she loved having them too.

Now they cannot because where she lives is not large enough to have children staying for any length of time not to say also unhealthy too.
Another impact this will have on people who have done not a thing wrong other than be in need of help and on very low incomes.

[cheeky_monkey]

Disgusting and heartless!

RIP Stephanie

[lostalex]

It's just like that idiot woman who killed herself after that AUstralian radio prank pretending to be the Queen and people blamed the radio DJ's. Gimme a break.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's just like that idiot woman who killed herself after that AUstralian radio prank pretending to be the Queen and people blamed the radio DJ's. Gimme a break.

A bit harsh Lostalex but I respect your right to say it.

However in both cases we likely don't know what other pressures these women were under, the problem is that when someone is probably under great stress and worry that it just takes that final thing to happen that can be the tipping point over the final edge.

For me, maybe that Nurse was terrified of what may happen to her job, seeing that the Royal Family were involved.
Then this poor woman in the news today, clearly it seems she must have felt stuck in a downward spiral oif worry over money and how she may cope, once she realised the crippling financial loss she was to sustain because of this bedroom tax/charge,then for her that was clearly switch off time,she couldn't take anymore sadly.

WE are all different, some people cope with pressure,worry and stress okay but others don't and that makes them vulnerable,needing to be built up not brought down,in my opinion anyway.

[Kizzy]

Whether it was the only thing or the straw that broke the camels back, the fact is in both cases the deceased named the issues as the deciding factor in their final words. The problem to them was so large they saw no way over, past or through it, we cannot judge and suggest their fears were trivial.. that would be wrong.

[lostalex]

I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying you can't blame a LAW (or a radio prank) for someone committing suicide, and for her to blame her choice to commit suicide on that is just ridiculous and makes no sense. Clearly the woman had serious psychological problems and needed help. If someone is THAT fragile, the family and friends should have stepped in LONG before it came to this.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying you can't blame a LAW (or a radio prank) for someone committing suicide, and for her to blame her choice to commit suicide on that is just ridiculous and makes no sense. Clearly the woman had serious psychological problems and needed help. If someone is THAT fragile, the family and friends should have stepped in LONG before it came to this.

That may well be correct,however often people depressed or under great stress don't ask for help, they should but they don't fearing a negative reaction.

Sadly too, where money is concerned people feel shame when they cannot cope and get into financial difficulties but they do their best to hide it rather than admit they have such a problem.

That is why this policy should have been far better planned and made with a lot more fairness and understanding to it too, rather than just bulldozered in across the board with little and even no idea as to how heavily or badly it would hit those affected by it.

That is the Govts fault, and if this policy was the final thing that pushed this Lady into thinking she could take no more then it was at the very least a contributory factor to the tragedy that then occurred.

She was likely going to be under the threat of losing the home she knew and likely felt safe in, she had very low income too,so knew no way could she get around that.
She would likely feel a failure and also expect great shame to come from her plight of trying to cope with such a loss of income.
An entitlement she was given, suddenly drastically cut, no appeal as to it either,all that is the Govt's fault,no one elses.

Yes she took her own life but all the more reason for those in power and the architects of this policy to re-think the policy, so no one else feels they have no way out as to coping with this heartless and discrimatory charge they have to pay, from the income they were originally told they had to have in law to live on.

[GypsyGoth]

I think her family could have helped her, maybe they could have paid the extra money that she was losing. After all she did raise them.

And maybe she could have been persuaded to move in with one of them, she was depressed, so maybe it wasn't the best thing that she was living alone.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

I think her family could have helped her, maybe they could have paid the extra money that she was losing. After all she did raise them.

And maybe she could have been persuaded to move in with one of them, she was depressed, so maybe it wasn't the best thing that she was living alone.

It can be lot of money to find GypsyGoth though, I know of a Lady who is in a 3 bedroomed house and she has to pay an extra £23 each week.
Few people have those funds available to help and also while it is on paper a fair idea to move in with family, she was still losing her home that she knew and which she was tenant of.

Once you move in with others, even family, it is not 'your' home anymore it is theirs, it is likely to cause more depression and lower self esteem in the long run.

This policiy has only hit from April, maybe she hadn't realised the massive loss to her income it would bring, maybe she tried to hide her financial problems.

I fail to see the need for this policy at all, all that is needed is new houses being built,which in turn would cut unemployent and give a massive boost to the construction industry.
Far better than setting out to distress and penalise people simply for being in need and having a very low income.

[Kizzy]

How to get rid of the bedroom tax as a policy . It is a simple letter saying that all social tenants should query the bedroom tax decision. They should write to their local council asking HOW they made the bedroom tax decision and request further information such as written copies of the bedroom tax policies it has. Using Liverpool as an example it would see the council there needing 632 officers just to deal with such requests from the 12,649 bedroom tax tenants in Liverpool. This would apply to every council of course and give huge cost and huge disruption to the councils and is perfectly lawful, and in fact is your absolute right.
It need not even cost you the price of a stamp as you can hand it in to your local council one-stop shop. There is also nothing to stop you asking for more information and more explanation on a daily basis with different questions each time – heaping chaos onto chaos onto chaos. That meltdown is of course unfair on your local council and they have only made the decision following orders from central government.
Yet they will start ‘moaning’ and moaning en masse to central government over the cost and pressure starts to build on central government. Because Housing Benefit staff at your local council are running around like headless chickens complying with your request for further information and explanation, their normal work suffers. The landlords, both social landlords and private landlords will see delays in deciding and paying HB claims and private landlords may well decide the benefit claimant is too much trouble and start evicting….which means your local council has more and more work and cost of much higher homelessness cases…as does central government too.

[Vicky.]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_3280442.html

Good luck to these people. I really think they have a good case here

Also, DWP finally admit that its a money saving exercise and not about freeing up housing for sardine families as previously claimed...

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) rejects the "bedroom tax" tag and says the reality is that "a spare room subsidy" has been removed from social sector tenants.

DWP lawyers say reduction of rising housing benefit expenditure is an "integral aspect" of the Government's deficit reduction programme, and the change in regulations is expected to produce savings of £500m a year.