[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

Meh, children hate doing the nativity, unless they're one of the special ones would get to be Mary/Joseph.

The ones who are Mary just want to sit down through the whole thing the lazy bastards.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Christmarsh.

The ones who are Mary just want to sit down through the whole thing the lazy bastards.

The inn keeper is the most coveted role

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The inn keeper is the most coveted role

It Certainly was at the school my friend works at.
One very naughty young boy called Stanley brought the house down.
When Joseph knocked at the door and asked if there was any room at the Inn, Stanley replied " no there isn't, now ******* off to the stable.


We have had many a laugh at the antics of young Stanley

[Marsh.]

Why were astronauts in Bethlehem over 2000 years ago?

Or was this set on the moon?

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Christmarsh.

Why were astronauts in Bethlehem over 2000 years ago?

Or was this set on the moon?

Time travel I think

[Marsh.]

Ammi so wants to see Elvis in the manger.

[Scarlett.]

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

its true

almost all news channels are biased in their own ways...

we should always be tolerent of other peoples beliefs, but I also think that the people who come here should respect our traditions '

although saying that, i've never met a muslim who thinks, '**** ENGLAND AND ITS CHRISTIAN WAYS!!!!'

its just a load of crap said by the media.

Most muslims ive met are very accepting and understanding

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

yea the daily mail invented all the radical islam, taking over school curriculums, the terror threats, the acts of mass murder. nasty people from the mail telling us whats going on in our country

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by the truth

yea the daily mail invented all the radical islam, taking over school curriculums, the terror threats, the acts of mass murder. nasty people from the mail telling us whats going on in our country

I don't know what to say, other than lol.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Chewdolph

You do know that newspapers such as the Daily Mail dramatise complaints, and make it sound like other religeons want to cancel Christmas, right? They do it every single year, they find a small select few Muslims who complain, then make it front page news, "MUSLIMS WANT TO CANCEL CHRISTMAS", "LOCAL MUSLIMS OPPOSE NATIVITY DISPLAY" the funny thing is, nothing ever comes of it and people fall for it, Every. Single. Year.

I'm not basing my reaction specifically on the linked article posted by LT Chewie, but also on my own experiences dealing with certain muslim Asian dignitaries and the inexplicable changes to long traditional policies in certain schools and even nursing homes within my area over the years.

It will be a long post to just outline the details, but here goes: My children went to a very reputable Church of England school, where 'Morning Assembly' was cancelled abruptly only to be followed by the abandoning of the traditional Christmas Nativity in favour of little 'plays' written by the Head Teacher.

There were only 3 muslim Asian kids in the school and their father was a 'Doctor' who was something of a 'dignitary' - he was on the school Board of Governors, on some Police Authority Board, was Chairman of Community Race Relations or suchlike, Leader of the local 'mosque' (actually a converted terrace house) etc. etc. He was very respected and feted in fact - as most 'local dignitaries' are.

What most of the community don't know, is that he is one of the most crooked, cheating bastards walking God's earth, and racially prejudiced against white English people to boot.

I know because I dealt with him in business for a while until I could not stomach his sneering contempt for English people and our way of life, any longer and actually threw him out of my office.

I had been travelling on a mutual business trip in the back seat of his Range Rover and there were 5 other Asian colleagues of his whom I did not know. On a 15 mile journey, every time we passed a white female they started talking among themselves in Urdu and fractured English, about 'English harlots', 'Slags' Sluts' - you name it, and some of the females we passed were just schoolgirls.

I nearly came to blows with 2 of them in the car and demanded they turned the car around telling him he could "Feck" his business, and he did turn it around.

Back home, he followed me into my office and told me that he couldn't understand my reaction because I wasn't an "English bastard" but was Asian like them (because I am mixed race) and it ended up with me physically throwing him out.

This is all true.

The mistake he made was in believing that I was his 'friend' but although I did do business with him and was friendly with him to begin with, I soon grew to dislike him immensely. During that time though, I witnessed enough of his 'dodgy dealings' and total disregard for even his own Muslim community whom he was 'ripping off'. He tried to get me to submit a deliberately inflated quote to the council so he could get a bigger Grant but I refused. He tried to get me to do the same on invoices for the local 'Mosque' so he could recoup his 'outlay' from the Muslim community he 'served' and pocket the - considerable - difference on each invoice. I refused.

Anyway, this was the hypocritical bastard who was (and still is) held in such high regard by our community and its 'Big Wigs', and this is the man whose influence - along with his certain of his Asian cronies - and friendship with the school's Head teacher initiated the said changes to that school's traditions.

It got so bad that when the kids at the school - including mine - were creating gaily decorated hoops to hang from the assembly room ceiling at Christmas, the children were told that they could no longer do Angels, but Stars were OK.

I actually went to see the Head and queried these changes and was told that morning assembly was cancelled because the school did not want the 'non-Christian' children (all 3 of them) to feel 'excluded'. Similarly, he explained that the school was no longer putting on the traditional Christmas Nativity because: it did not want to "offend the parents of the non-Christian children" (all 1 of them - the dad in question) when they came to attend the play. I argued the toss with him but my logic fell on deaf ears.

The situation deteriorated when my son came home with homework on the life of the prophet Muhammed and text books on Islam. I have already stated on here that I have never made any attempt to 'push' my beliefs onto my children, so I asked my little son if he knew who the four evangelists were. He shook his little head.

I went back to see the prick of a head teacher and asked why; in a Church of England School, he was teaching the kids Islam when Christianity wasn't on the curriculum and he gave me a load of B.S. by way of an answer.

I had a choice, remove my kids from one of the (hitherto) highest performing schools in the area, or leave them and accept the situation.

I left them.

This Asian dignitary also owned several 'Care Homes' which were full of old 'white' English people - not a Muslim in sight - and all the staff were the same. Yet Christmas was not allowed to be celebrated in any of his homes even though a lot of the inmates and staff wanted to put Christmas trees up and decorate.

But isn't this the situation now given the topic of this thread?

Having change thrust upon us for no valid reason? Change which is not only offensive to our belief system, but which is yet another example of our civil liberties as English Christians being taken away from us? Changes which are just a thinly cloaked way of eroding our heritage, our traditions, our way of life?

What about our rights?

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm not basing my reaction specifically on the linked article posted by LT Chewie, but also on my own experiences dealing with certain muslim Asian dignitaries and the inexplicable changes to long traditional policies in certain schools and even nursing homes within my area over the years.

It will be a long post to just outline the details, but here goes: My children went to a very reputable Church of England school, where 'Morning Assembly' was cancelled abruptly only to be followed by the abandoning of the traditional Christmas Nativity in favour of little 'plays' written by the Head Teacher.

There were only 3 muslim Asian kids in the school and their father was a 'Doctor' who was something of a 'dignitary' - he was on the school Board of Governors, on some Police Authority Board, was Chairman of Community Race Relations or suchlike, Leader of the local 'mosque' (actually a converted terrace house) etc. etc. He was very respected and feted in fact - as most 'local dignitaries' are.

What most of the community don't know, is that he is one of the most crooked, cheating bastards walking God's earth, and racially prejudiced against white English people to boot.

I know because I dealt with him in business for a while until I could not stomach his sneering contempt for English people and our way of life, any longer and actually threw him out of my office.

I had been travelling on a mutual business trip in the back seat of his Range Rover and there were 5 other Asian colleagues of his whom I did not know. On a 15 mile journey, every time we passed a white female they started talking among themselves in Urdu and fractured English, about 'English harlots', 'Slags' Sluts' - you name it, and some of the females we passed were just schoolgirls.

I nearly came to blows with 2 of them in the car and demanded they turned the car around telling him he could "Feck" his business, and he did turn it around.

Back home, he followed me into my office and told me that he couldn't understand my reaction because I wasn't an "English bastard" but was Asian like them (because I am mixed race) and it ended up with me physically throwing him out.

This is all true.

The mistake he made was in believing that I was his 'friend' but although I did do business with him and was friendly with him to begin with, I soon grew to dislike him immensely. During that time though, I witnessed enough of his 'dodgy dealings' and total disregard for even his own Muslim community whom he was 'ripping off'. He tried to get me to submit a deliberately inflated quote to the council so he could get a bigger Grant but I refused. He tried to get me to do the same on invoices for the local 'Mosque' so he could recoup his 'outlay' from the Muslim community he 'served' and pocket the - considerable - difference on each invoice. I refused.

Anyway, this was the hypocritical bastard who was (and still is) held in such high regard by our community and its 'Big Wigs', and this is the man whose influence - along with his certain of his Asian cronies - and friendship with the school's Head teacher initiated the said changes to that school's traditions.

It got so bad that when the kids at the school - including mine - were creating gaily decorated hoops to hang from the assembly room ceiling at Christmas, the children were told that they could no longer do Angels, but Stars were OK.

I actually went to see the Head and queried these changes and was told that morning assembly was cancelled because the school did not want the 'non-Christian' children (all 3 of them) to feel 'excluded'. Similarly, he explained that the school was no longer putting on the traditional Christmas Nativity because: it did not want to "offend the parents of the non-Christian children" (all 1 of them - the dad in question) when they came to attend the play. I argued the toss with him but my logic fell on deaf ears.

The situation deteriorated when my son came home with homework on the life of the prophet Muhammed and text books on Islam. I have already stated on here that I have never made any attempt to 'push' my beliefs onto my children, so I asked my little son if he knew who the four evangelists were. He shook his little head.

I went back to see the prick of a head teacher and asked why; in a Church of England School, he was teaching the kids Islam when Christianity wasn't on the curriculum and he gave me a load of B.S. by way of an answer.

I had a choice, remove my kids from one of the (hitherto) highest performing schools in the area, or leave them and accept the situation.

I left them.

This Asian dignitary also owned several 'Care Homes' which were full of old 'white' English people - not a Muslim in sight - and all the staff were the same. Yet Christmas was not allowed to be celebrated in any of his homes even though a lot of the inmates and staff wanted to put Christmas trees up and decorate.

But isn't this the situation now given the topic of this thread?

Having change thrust upon us for no valid reason? Change which is not only offensive to our belief system, but which is yet another example of our civil liberties as English Christians being taken away from us? Changes which are just a thinly cloaked way of eroding our heritage, our traditions, our way of life?

What about our rights?

Wow, that's really sad and quite a shame.

I also work in a C of E school, and there are a few Muslim children there.

Thankfully, all of their parents are completely understanding and are more than happy for them to take part in the Christmas nativities. Although one thing, (which upsets me greatly) is that the mothers have mentioned how they worry about taking pictures, as some people in their family and back home (I think it was Pakistan... not too sure though) would be very angry and disgusted.

It's sad, because I get on with these mothers very well. I have said it before on here, but I have never met a nasty Muslim or Asian. But I will be honest, I've heard plenty of scary things from other members of staff in the school.

I do think that we will eventually be asked to not do the nativity anymore, for quite a few reasons.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it. If it is a school of a different religion, I have absolutely no problem with them not doing a Christmas nativity.

But I don't think the nativity should be banned, nor do I think it should be forced... It should be up to the school.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted to say my opinion!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Urwreatha

Wow, that's really sad and quite a shame.

I also work in a C of E school, and there are a few Muslim children there.

Thankfully, all of their parents are completely understanding and are more than happy for them to take part in the Christmas nativities. Although one thing, (which upsets me greatly) is that the mothers have mentioned how they worry about taking pictures, as some people in their family and back home (I think it was Pakistan... not too sure though) would be very angry and disgusted.

It's sad, because I get on with these mothers very well. I have said it before on here, but I have never met a nasty Muslim or Asian. But I will be honest, I've heard plenty of scary things from other members of staff in the school.

I do think that we will eventually be asked to not do the nativity anymore, for quite a few reasons.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it. If it is a school of a different religion, I have absolutely no problem with them not doing a Christmas nativity.

But I don't think the nativity should be banned, nor do I think it should be forced... It should be up to the school.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted to say my opinion!

You ain't rambling Caitlin, you're being balanced and making sense. I'm not ranting about Muslims per se, I have repeatedly stressed that ordinary Muslims are no more part of ISIS/Al Qaeda terrorism than were ordinary Irish Catholics and Protestants part of the IRA troubles years ago. They are also not responsible for the covert usurpation which is definitely occurring here in the UK, and has been, dating back to the early 1960's.

It is the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' Islamic extremists who are behind what's happening here. They infiltrate organisations as diverse as the BBC and Channel 4 & 5, newspapers, Councils, Police, Medical and School Authorities, and all departments of our Civil Service - the real power in this country irrespective of which Government is in 'phoney' power.

Once in, they work their way into positions of power. These are 5th columnists, working from within, and in no hurry, but every bit as dangerous as their Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist brothers waging war and wreaking carnage without, because their objective is the same - subjugation and usurpation of the UK as part of their self proclaimed mission to ultimately render the entire world Islamic. They are preparing the way by stealth.

I don't care who thinks I have a bolt loose, I have moved in certain circles and witnessed certain conversations for over a decade, and know the truth.

"It's B.S.". "He's seen too many films". "It can't happen". - Well, it is happening, but is so diversely spread, and done so subtly with 'baby steps', that no one collates it all, or thinks and analyses it. And that's exactly why it is happening the way it is.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You ain't rambling Caitlin, you're being balanced and making sense. I'm not ranting about Muslims per se, I have repeatedly stressed that ordinary Muslims are no more part of ISIS/Al Qaeda terrorism than were ordinary Irish Catholics and Protestants part of the IRA troubles years ago. They are also not responsible for the covert usurpation which is definitely occurring here in the UK, and has been, dating back to the early 1960's.

It is the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' Islamic extremists who are behind what's happening here. They infiltrate organisations as diverse as the BBC and Channel 4 & 5, newspapers, Councils, Police, Medical and School Authorities, and all departments of our Civil Service - the real power in this country irrespective of which Government is in 'phoney' power.

Once in, they work their way into positions of power. These are 5th columnists, working from within, and in no hurry, but every bit as dangerous as their Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist brothers waging war and wreaking carnage without, because their objective is the same - subjugation and usurpation of the UK as part of their self proclaimed mission to ultimately render the entire world Islamic. They are preparing the way by stealth.

I don't care who thinks I have a bolt loose, I have moved in certain circles and witnessed certain conversations for over a decade, and know the truth.

"It's B.S.". "He's seen too many films". "It can't happen". - Well, it is happening, but is so diversely spread, and done so subtly with 'baby steps', that no one collates it all, or thinks and analyses it. And that's exactly why it is happening the way it is.

Oh no, please dont think I was accusing you of muslim hating! Cause I definitely wasn't, lol...

but no, I do agree with your post... and this one. It's true and its a shame people don't realise it.

all this 'we must be very careful what we say!!' crap actually does more damage than good.

[Northern Monkey]

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

I totally agree. well said

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

To clarify.I have no problem with anyone doing any play at Christmas or any other time of the year,But these two sentences from the OP are where my issue lies -
'The traditional school nativity play is under pressure to modernise the story and remove religious figures, according to users of a parenting website.'
And
'There are also claims Christmas plays are being called "winter celebrations".'

There should be no 'pressure' from anyone to 'modernise' the Nativity.
Since Christmas is a Christian celebration and is all about the Nativity we should not be pressured into changing it to accomodate anyone else but free to celebrate it however we choose,Religious or otherwise.

Now calling it a 'Winter celebration' is also fine with me,IF that is what anyone WANTS to call it.But we should not feel that we HAVE to call it that so as not to offend anyone.We should be free to call it 'The Nativity' wether some people are offended or not(which i doubt they are).I think Christianity gets sidelined all too often to appease the anxieties of certain parts of our society.Christianity is the main religion in our country and should'nt be treated as being less important than any other religion.

Brilliantly put Paul.

[Nedusa]

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.

.

Well said as usual Nedusa.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



.

absolutely spot on to a tee..........please run for office

[Kazanne]

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

Brilliant post Kaz.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Brilliant post Kaz.

Well ,Kirk the state of the world and certain groups are whinging about kids in a play,pfft,idiots why should England tremble Eh?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

Nicely put Kaz, the word whinging is very apt.