[Kizzy]

Nobody thinks the depression was a magical era, I alluded to that yesterday to highlight that the UK was economically on it's knees and yet as a nation we wanted to help.
Could we have helped more? Yes and some families were lucky to be included in the lottery of selection, it does appear to have some similarities to the situation at the moment where tens of thousands will simply not make it regardless of their level of suffering, the weight of that fact is felt today as it was then.
Suggesting where you come from should denote your level of knowledge and or understanding of the issue is not a fair point to make to anyone least of all anyone interested or involved in politics.
There always will be organisations whose area of expertise is to take action during times of outbreak or emergency, that is separate to the issue in discussion in this thread.
Our involvement in search and rescue was reintroduced specifically due to being shamed after searches were called off last November.
Our country has areas of high conurbation but I don't believe it should be described as densely populated.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's some very evocative language there joey.

I can't see anyone here scapegoating genuine refugees. Should more have been done earlier? Well yes, of course. But that could be said of any country. I'm really tired of this whole "you're all horrible and cold" stance. My own family came here as refugees, genuine refugees. Were they let in with open arms? No. There was hell on in all quarters about the amount of Jews coming into the country. opposition to refugees is not something new, although some people seem to think the 30s and 40s was some magical time when Jews were let in and welcomed with open arms... it wasn't like that at all. There is far more done now for refugees than there ever was in the past.

I come from the East End, where there are more than anyone's fair share of refugees. I works for an FE college that recognised 130 languages, where those refugees were welcomed, taught English, taught a trade if they didn't have one or given academic English classes to follow their profession, all free. They were housed, given medical care and could live freely and without fear. Maybe there aren't a lot of refugees where you come from but there are a lot where I come from. Taking refugees isn't a new thing for us we've been doing it for a long time.

The thing that makes my heart sink is that some people don't recognise the good that this country does. Who was the first to land in Africa when the ebola crisis struck? The British army with field hospitals. Who is dragging refugees out of the water in the Med? The Royal Navy. Are they doing it because some people have shamed them? No.

Should we be doing more? Possibly... but we are just one of many and the UK is already the most densely populated country in Europe with a wealth of social problems including homelessness, poverty, an overstretched infrastructure... Germany have taken many more refugees than us because their birthrate has been falling year upon year.

No one here thinks genuine refugees should be turned away. Certainly not I.

I'm sorry Liv, and do not want to be seen as obsequious just because we are friends, but I cannot help it - you post so eloquently and truthfully.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I'm sorry Liv, and do not want to be seen as obsequious just because we are friends, but I cannot help it - you post so eloquently and truthfully.

Much appreciated Kirk, thanks.

[Kizzy]

'Caroline Lucas, the Green MP, asks Cameron to accept the link between arms sales and the refugee crisis.

Cameron says Britain has some of the strictest rules in the world for selling arms. People are leaving Syria because Assad is butchering his own people, and because Islamic State is running large parts of the country. Those are the problems, he says.'

The PM looked livid at this topic being brought up, it's very valid I wonder how strict these rules are.

[Livia]

If only Caroline Lucas had Google.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sanctions-on-syria

[Kizzy]

Yes, if it were that easy you wonder why she chose to directly pose that to the PM today.... hmmm it makes you think, well it makes me think anyway.

[Livia]

Having seen the extent of their ability to govern in Brighton, I'm not at ALL surprised she asked the question.

[Kizzy]

Ah so it wasn't what was said it was who said it, who is qualified to suggest there may be a link?

[arista]

Best of all Kizzy , today
that tweet from Paddy
was wrong
as the children will not now not return when they reach 18

[Livia]

Maybe... just maybe... the sanctions are actually there! They were there under Labour, they're there under the Tories and I dare say they'll be there under whoever gets in next. And not only sanctions against Syria, but also many other war-torn countries. Look into it... don't take my word.

[Kizzy]

Why then is it being drawn attention to.. reading between the lines what could she be alluding to?

[Livia]

Are you asking me? I have no idea what goes through the head of a Green.

[kirklancaster]

WE ARE MEAN GREEN KILLING MACHINES

[empire]

if europe and the uk, lets in millions of refugees, then people will say that enoch powell's river's of blood speech, was right, but with a twist, and some people are saying this right now, but that will grow even larger, if europe lets in more than they can cope, and you can't shame them, because it will not work, europe is heading for right wing rule, because the left wing are digging there own grave, and seem to live in a bubble.

[the truth]

the left just call everyone who disagree with them bigots, theyre as dangerous as the far right....we end up in the same place dictated to by crooks

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

WE ARE MEAN GREEN KILLING MACHINES

Think you're confusing green with blue here Kirk

[Livia]

Yeah, all Tories are killing machines.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah, all Tories are killing machines.

Only special ones have a licence to kill though LOL.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Nobody thinks the depression was a magical era, I alluded to that yesterday to highlight that the UK was economically on it's knees and yet as a nation we wanted to help.
Could we have helped more? Yes and some families were lucky to be included in the lottery of selection, it does appear to have some similarities to the situation at the moment where tens of thousands will simply not make it regardless of their level of suffering, the weight of that fact is felt today as it was then.
Suggesting where you come from should denote your level of knowledge and or understanding of the issue is not a fair point to make to anyone least of all anyone interested or involved in politics.
There always will be organisations whose area of expertise is to take action during times of outbreak or emergency, that is separate to the issue in discussion in this thread.
Our involvement in search and rescue was reintroduced specifically due to being shamed after searches were called off last November.
Our country has areas of high conurbation but I don't believe it should be described as densely populated.

More good points, I agree.
Really strong post Kizzy, well said.

[Livia]

They can't be good points and wrong points. It's one or the other.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

[/B]


More good points, I agree.
Really strong post Kizzy, well said.

Thankyou very much Joey, that means a lot.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

They can't be good points and wrong points. It's one or the other.

With full respect, I think they are good points and I don't actually agree they are wrong ones from Kizzy either.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

With full respect, I think they are good points and I don't actually agree they are wrong ones from Kizzy either.

That's been made very clear, Joey.

[Kizzy]

I would like to know what I've said that's so wrong.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well I am one who is disgusted still at this govts response to this problem.

People who care about decency and I actually consider I do that, I would hate myself if I didn't in fact.
They and I have as much right to say how disillusioned I am and ashamed of the govts and some of my British fellow citizens cold and hardline attitude to these desperate people in turmoil and crisis.

Whether that means because I don't just follow like sheep a hardline uncaring govt and totally useless PMs inaction on this issue and therefore should go to another Country.
Well hey,that thought is indeed very appealing at this time for sure for me.

However,it is in the main, that loud minority,'IF' there is proof it is only a minority, that have in fact helped shame this PM into actually doing more that is more practical and right as to this crisis.

The measures he has announced are indeed welcome but to get applause from me he will need to soften his tone and do far more than this as ongoing into the far future.

are you just as furious at the tens of thousands of neglected brits dying from neglect in british hospitals and care homes? 25,000 people die of undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals each other, some people in wales wait 10 weeks for the result of scans and 18 months plus for operations? look at the Stafford abuses 1000+ died of thirst? or do you overlook at as its not a populist bandwagon ?