[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

oh come on ... the hit we took was all the squandering of money into the NHS and other schemes. Lots of money paid, but nothing to show for it.

Do I really need to list again all the money that the labour administration squandered leaving us vulnerable to a recession?

Squandering money on the NHS, how do you envisage the money spent is shown, ask every RTA to log who doesn't die... have mortality charts on ward walls?

Yes list it again, I'll counter with the money IDS wrote of prior to the roll out of universal credit for starters.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Squandering money on the NHS, how do you envisage the money spent is shown, ask every RTA to log who doesn't die... have mortality charts on ward walls?

Yes list it again, I'll counter with the money IDS wrote of prior to the roll out of universal credit for starters.

There was plenty funding wasted too by the coalition govt as to carrying out a costly re-organisation and unnecessary one at that, of the NHS.

All govts waste money and the cost of this ones efforts in Libya for example and the mess left there now is more waste of funding.

However I still say, a surplus should not be acceptable to have in place when at the same time old and sick people are being denied care and having their benefits cut.

No decent society should ever accept that in my view, sadly UK society is being led into anything but a decent society anymore by this lot who it seems can get away with anything as long as it hits the weakest.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

oh come on ... the hit we took was all the squandering of money into the NHS and other schemes. Lots of money paid, but nothing to show for it.

Do I really need to list again all the money that the labour administration squandered leaving us vulnerable to a recession?

Lets get beyond the mantras of those headlines we read.
CLAIM 1
The last government left the biggest debt in the developed world. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rame...b_2007552.html

After continuously stating the UK had the biggest debt in the world George Osborne admits to the Treasury Select Committee that he did not know the UK had the lowest debt in the G7? Also, confirmed by the OECD Those who use cash terms (instead of percentages) do so to scare, mislead and give half the story.
Its common sense, in cash terms a millionaire's debt would be greater than most people. Therefore, the UK would have a higher debt and deficit than most countries because, we are the sixth largest economy. Hence, its laughable to compare UK's debt and deficit with Tuvalu's who only have a GDP/Income of £24 million whilst, the UK's income is £1.7 Trillion.
Finally, Labour in 1997 inherited a debt of 42% of GDP. By the start of the global banking crises 2008 the debt had fallen to 35% - a near 22% reduction page 6 ONS Surprisingly, a debt of 42% was not seen as a major problem and yet at 35% the sky was falling down?

You should go and read claim 2 and claim 3 because surely you deserve to know the truth. If someone shouts a lie loud enough and long enough we can almost guarantee that lie will become our truth. But by believing the lie we protect ourselves from the truth.

[Kizzy]

Vid by McDonnell on the subject on here ...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...te-live-debate

[Kizzy]

'Labour’s Jonathan Reynolds says this fiscal charter is “moronic’. It would stop the government borrowing to invest. That is why no sensible economist backs it.

McDonnell says he could not have put that better himself.'

[DemolitionRed]

Thanks Kizzy, this is an interesting link

James Cleverly, a Conservative MP, says the wording of the charter has not changed in the last two weeks. What changed? Had McDonnell not read the charter two weeks ago?

McDonnell says, before an MP intervenes in a debate, it is best to have listened to it first, so that one can be sure one is adding something to the sum of human knowledge.

Jacob Rees-Mogg, a Conservative, says McDonnell says he wants to eliminate the deficit. But he opposes all cuts. So how could that happen?

McDonnell says he will get to that in his speech. (I'm so looking forward to this!)

He then went on to say: The Tories have persuaded the public that the crash was caused by Labour spending. That has been one of the most successful attempts to rewrite history in recent times. He will correct that tonight. The Tories backed Labour spending until Northern Rock. And it was not hiring doctors and nurses that caused the crash. The deficit was not the cause of the crash. It was the consequence of it.

Lets get the fireworks out!!

[JoshBB]

Idk if anyone has seen this, but a quick google will find it..

George Osbourne was fiercly opposed to Labour originally intending to introduce a bill like this in 2010 near the end of their term.. quite funny it's the same arguments used too

[Kizzy]

George Osborne has used a 90-minute debate on the charter for budget responsibility, committing the government to running a permanent budget surplus in normal times after 2019, to attack Labour as a party of “fiscal irresponsibility”. In his first parliamentary outing against Osborne, John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, rejected this claim, saying Labour was committed to reducing the deficit in a way that was fair. McDonnell was mocked for his U-turn on this issue this week, but he insisted that he had only changed his mind on tactics not policy. As I write, the full voting figures are not available, but Labour says fewer than 30 MPs chose to abstain rather than to support the party line and vote against the government. That represents a blow to Jeremy Corbyn’s authority, but a relatively minor one because, in parliamentary terms, an abstention does not normally count as a proper rebellion.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

George Osborne has used a 90-minute debate on the charter for budget responsibility, committing the government to running a permanent budget surplus in normal times after 2019, to attack Labour as a party of “fiscal irresponsibility”. In his first parliamentary outing against Osborne, John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, rejected this claim, saying Labour was committed to reducing the deficit in a way that was fair. McDonnell was mocked for his U-turn on this issue this week, but he insisted that he had only changed his mind on tactics not policy. As I write, the full voting figures are not available, but Labour says fewer than 30 MPs chose to abstain rather than to support the party line and vote against the government. That represents a blow to Jeremy Corbyn’s authority, but a relatively minor one because, in parliamentary terms, an abstention does not normally count as a proper rebellion.

Just into the 20s was the figure Kizzy and had they not done so this bill would still have got passed comfortably.
Where everyone else was is a mystery to me.
Labour and the SNP alone have nearly 290 MPs, yet only 258 voted against this bill.

It is simply a wrong policy at this time and I am yet to be convinced this govt will be running at any surplus by the time 2019 comes around anyway.
If anything they have presided over worse than what they took over in 2010.

Hence why they came crawling back in 2015 needing, they say, the same time to do the same things to achieve the same targets set in 2010 but failed to reach.
It would not surprise me to hear that argument again in 2020.

[DemolitionRed]

In 2010 Labour brought in the Fiscal Responsibility Act which promised to halve the deficit by the end of 2014. This was repealed in 2011. Here is what Osborne had to say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbLMccuA6P0
Instead of an opposition bench, they should just have a tv monitor playing back what he said in the past.

[DemolitionRed]

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

[Kizzy]

Yes the nation is in debt, big deal... Ethical economists would be looking for a way to balance the books with the least impact on the welfare of citizens.
It depends on what your interpretation of fiscal irresponsibility is as to which party is guilty of it.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes the nation is in debt, big deal... Ethical economists would be looking for a way to balance the books with the least impact on the welfare of citizens.
It depends on what your interpretation of fiscal irresponsibility is as to which party is guilty of it.

Its alarming that our national debt has soured up by £850 billion in the last five and a half years. That's significantly more than Blair and Brown added in 11 years.

What frightens me is, the government are now going to start squeezing money out of its population.

What do these new budget rules actually mean to the population of Britain?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Its alarming that our national debt has soured up by £850 billion in the last five and a half years. That's significantly more than Blair and Brown added in 11 years.

What frightens me is, the government are now going to start squeezing money out of its population.

What do these new budget rules actually mean to the population of Britain?

I'm really annoyed thinking about it with Milliband, for not getting angrier and highlighting any of this during the election, he should've been shining a torch on all the dark recesses that the tories like to keep hidden. Corbyn comes across like a deputy headmaster at PMQs, it's better than it was but I really want him to go for the jugular.
I don't know what they mean, nobody seems to know what they mean that's the odd thing. Osborne raved on that voting against showed 'fiscal irresponsibility' what did voting for show? social irresponsibility as far as I can see.
I have a theory as to why this money is being clawed together in this manner, I think we're going to war.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm really annoyed thinking about it with Milliband, for not getting angrier and highlighting any of this during the election, he should've been shining a torch on all the dark recesses that the tories like to keep hidden. Corbyn comes across like a deputy headmaster at PMQs, it's better than it was but I really want him to go for the jugular.
I don't know what they mean, nobody seems to know what they mean that's the odd thing. Osborne raved on that voting against showed 'fiscal irresponsibility' what did voting for show? social irresponsibility as far as I can see.
I have a theory as to why this money is being clawed together in this manner, I think we're going to war.

I feel your frustration Kizzy because I know exactly what you mean!

My husband said exactly that to me this morning...about war that is