[DemolitionRed]

@ Originally Posted by lostalex View Post
Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

That's just you assuming everyone's simple.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

@ Originally Posted by lostalex View Post
Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

That's just you assuming everyone's simple.

[user104658]

Oranges and bananas are both fruits? PLEASE. Utterly ridiculous. Let's see how they really compare.

A banana starts off green and turns yellow - whilst an orange is obviously ORANGE

A banana has an elongated, curved shape whilst an orange is roughly spherical, by all accounts.

The skin of a banana is smooth and almost has the texture of a soft leather, whilst an orange is puckered, hard and waxy.

You have to dig your nails into an orange to begin peeling, whereas a banana has a convenient peeling stick at the top.

Bananas have those weird long stringy bits down each side, while an orange is covered in a with "pith".

An orange divides into segments which can be eaten individually - a banana is more like one piece to be eaten from the top down.

Oranges are juicy, whereas bananas have a soft, squishy texture.

Bananas have a bland carby-ness about them whereas oranges are tangy.

You can make orange juice. You cannot make banana juice pls pls I dare you to try lolol.



Don't see how anyone could even begin to compare an orange and a banana! Let alone categorise them both under the same food group! So ignorant.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Oranges and bananas are both fruits? PLEASE. Utterly ridiculous. Let's see how they really compare.

A banana starts off green and turns yellow - whilst an orange is obviously ORANGE

A banana has an elongated, curved shape whilst an orange is roughly spherical, by all accounts.

The skin of a banana is smooth and almost has the texture of a soft leather, whilst an orange is puckered, hard and waxy.

You have to dig your nails into an orange to begin peeling, whereas a banana has a convenient peeling stick at the top.

Bananas have those weird long stringy bits down each side, while an orange is covered in a with "pith".

An orange divides into segments which can be eaten individually - a banana is more like one piece to be eaten from the top down.

Oranges are juicy, whereas bananas have a soft, squishy texture.

Bananas have a bland carby-ness about them whereas oranges are tangy.

You can make orange juice. You cannot make banana juice pls pls I dare you to try lolol.



Don't see how anyone could even begin to compare an orange and a banana! Let alone categorise them both under the same food group! So ignorant.

I am utterly confused by your points. I get the fruit analogy, I'm not sure why you would work so hard to debunk it. It was perfectly valid.

Are you for or against people comparing Trump to Hitler? Because from your first few posts, you were implying that it was fine. Although that doesn't sit very well with you getting quite bent out of shape because people on here referred to terrorists as "monsters". So... is it okay with you to call Trump and Nazi? And is it not okay with you to refer to terrorists as "monsters". It seems like an overly complicated system you have for grading people's comments.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I am utterly confused by your points. I get the fruit analogy, I'm not sure why you would work so hard to debunk it. It was perfectly valid.

Are you for or against people comparing Trump to Hitler? Because from your first few posts, you were implying that it was fine. Although that doesn't sit very well with you getting quite bent out of shape because people on here referred to terrorists as "monsters". So... is it okay with you to call Trump and Nazi? And is it not okay with you to refer to terrorists as "monsters". It seems like an overly complicated system you have for grading people's comments.

My point is that two things dont have to be identical to come under the same heading,I.e. the argument that Trump is nothing like Hitler because he is not EXACTLY like Hitler is logically invalid. In other words, kirk pointing out the differences between the two men does not negate the fact that there are also similarities, any more than pointing out that bananas and oranges have differences stops either from being a fruit.

Trump is not "a Nazi". Trumps political platform and the rhetoric he uses to gain support has clear similarities to the emotive tactics used by Hitler; economic pride, xenophobia, scapegoating. It is valid to point that out and it is a valid concern, because it is a toxic brand of politics fuelled by fear and hatred. Some seem to believe that this is the same as simply saying "zomg trump is a Hitler Nazi oh no!!", and they seek to shoot this down (passively censor it) by bleating on about Godwin's law.

As for the final part, that's not complicated at all. My issue with terrorists being called monsters has nothing at all to do with it being a "bad term", my issue there is simply that monsters do - not - exist... And using the term "monsters" therefore distracts from the uncomfortable truth of what these people actually are. Nazis on the other hand, are unfortunately very real. It is a descriptive term for a wretched type of human, not an attempt to cognitively reject a human as "other".

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

My point is that two things dont have to be identical to come under the same heading,I.e. the argument that Trump is nothing like Hitler because he is not EXACTLY like Hitler is logically invalid. In other words, kirk pointing out the differences between the two men does not negate the fact that there are also similarities, any more than pointing out that bananas and oranges have differences stops either from being a fruit.

Trump is not "a Nazi". Trumps political platform and the rhetoric he uses to gain support has clear similarities to the emotive tactics used by Hitler; economic pride, xenophobia, scapegoating. It is valid to point that out and it is a valid concern, because it is a toxic brand of politics fuelled by fear and hatred. Some seem to believe that this is the same as simply saying "zomg trump is a Hitler Nazi oh no!!", and they seek to shoot this down (passively censor it) by bleating on about Godwin's law.

As for the final part, that's not complicated at all. My issue with terrorists being called monsters has nothing at all to do with it being a "bad term", my issue there is simply that monsters do - not - exist... And using the term "monsters" therefore distracts from the uncomfortable truth of what these people actually are. Nazis on the other hand, are unfortunately very real. It is a descriptive term for a wretched type of human, not an attempt to cognitively reject a human as "other".

People can choose to call other people monsters even if they are not literally monsters. They can choose to call them animals, even though they are not literally animals. I can't see why you would be so concerned about the syntax of other people's comments. Terrorist, in my book, ARE monsters. Figuratively, not literally.

Trump is not a Nazi and anyone comparing him to a Nazi needs to look a little harder into what a Nazi actually is.

Also, if people mention Godwin's Law it's for a reason. The fact that you consider it to be "bleating" is neither here nor there.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

People can choose to call other people monsters even if they are not literally monsters. They can choose to call them animals, even though they are not literally animals. I can't see why you would be so concerned about the syntax of other people's comments. Terrorist, in my book, ARE monsters. Figuratively, not literally.

Trump is not a Nazi and anyone comparing him to a Nazi needs to look a little harder into what a Nazi actually is.

Also, if people mention Godwin's Law it's for a reason. The fact that you consider it to be "bleating" is neither here nor there.

So it's ok to describe someone as a monster, although they are not literally a monster.

It's OK to describe someone as an animal, although they are not literally an animal.

But if you describe someone using the terms "Hitler" or "Nazi", literally or otherwise, BZZT BZZT BZZT ALARM ALARM GODWIN GODWIN.


Is that about right?

[DemolitionRed]

Godwins Law is merely an internet adage that sits in the jargon file of the slang dictionary. It was originally coined by a frustrated Mike Godwin because the word 'Nazi' was a problematic online topic killer.

Well the topic hasn't stopped here, in fact the title of the topic, the very thing that got this topic going invites us to discuss Nazism. The mention of Nazism on that other thread, didn't kill the thread but actually made the discussion move further.

Godwins law is fine, providing we don't wrap it up with Murphys law and although a few people have tried to do that here, the worst hasn't happened and the topic remains active.

[DemolitionRed]

@Also they both had stupid hair.

Ah yes! the famous comb over.

[Kizzy]

It was the hair that first made me suspect there may be some correlation too!

[Crimson Dynamo]

i cant argue the hair thing tbh

[Northern Monkey]

Hitler could only dream of having those beautiful aryan blonde locks.

[iRyan]

He has a point, but the truth is there are evident similarities between Hitler and Trump, and defining the acknowledgement of these similarities as "the worst kind of hate speech" is really reaching.

[iRyan]

To me it sounds like a conservative trying on liberal rhetoric to make a point that's really not all that important. Criticizing people for using "hate speech" against Trump when Trump uses hate speech himself is just like...really? The difference is Trump is one billionaire running for president, and the people Trump attacks are races and religions that peacefully make up populations in the millions.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by iRyan

To me it sounds like a conservative trying on liberal rhetoric to make a point that's really not all that important. Criticizing people for using "hate speech" against Trump when Trump uses hate speech himself is just like...really? The difference is Trump is one billionaire running for president, and the people Trump attacks are races and religions that peacefully make up populations in the millions.

Very strong points in my view,very thought provoking.

[DemolitionRed]

Thank you iRyan, you nailed it.

[Kizzy]

Yep, nobody can align trump with a despot and yet he can align millions of innocents with terrorists :/
The golden rule?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yep, nobody can align trump with a despot and yet he can align millions of innocents with terrorists :/
The golden rule?

It's a glorious mix of hypocrisy and white privilege.

[user104658]

I get a little chuckle every time I see this thread title.

Really.

Not just "a kind of hate speech"...

" the worst kind of hate speech. "

The WORST kind.

Of hate speech. Of all the hate speeches ever made and their horrendous effect on the world. The worst.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I get a little chuckle every time I see this thread title.

Really.

Not just "a kind of hate speech"...

" the worst kind of hate speech. "

The WORST kind.

Of hate speech. Of all the hate speeches ever made and their horrendous effect on the world. The worst.

[bots]

Trump is not saying all muslims, he is saying those that want to harm America. I think its amazing that he is being condemned for trying to protect Americans from terrorists

[kirklancaster]

WHAT THE FECK IS THAT IDIOTIC, BAD HAIR SPORTING, XENOPHOBIC, RACIST TRUMP BLAMING POOR MEXICANS FOR?

1)The United States is a lucrative market for illegal drugs.
2)The United Nations estimates that nearly 90% of cocaine sold in the United States originates in South America and is smuggled through Mexico.
3)Mexico is the largest foreign supplier of marijuana and the second largest source of heroin for the U.S. market.
4) The majority of methamphetamine sold in the United States is made in Mexico.
5) Mexican-run methamphetamine labs that operate north of the border account for much of the remainder.
6) Mexican drug cartels play a major role in the flow of cocaine, heroin, and marijuana transiting between Latin America and the United States.
7)These drug cartels often use Mexican-American gangs to distribute their narcotics.
8)Mexican drug cartels also have ties to Colombian drug traffickers, and other international organized crime.
9) A sharp spike in drug-related violence has some analysts worrying about the 'Colombianization' of Mexico.

DOESN'T IDIOT TRUMP KNOW THAT IT IS NOT VICIOUS CRIMINAL MEXICAN DRUG GANGS WHO ARE DIGGING TUNNELS INTO THE US, BUT GENIAL AND BENIGN PEACE LOVING MEXICANS WHO JUST WANT TO SMUGGLE BUNCHES OF FLOWERS INTO THE USA AS GESTURES OF NEIGHBOURLY LOVE?

AND DOESN'T THE IDIOT KNOW THAT THERE IS NO TRUTH IN THE RUMOURS THAT SEX SLAVES AND FEE PAYING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BEING TRANSPORTED THROUGH THESE TUNNELS COURTESY OF VICIOUS 'PEOPLE TRAFFICKERS?

Mexican authorities find a drug smuggling tunnel close to the US border. Discovered in Tijuana, just two blocks from the border, this is the third tunnel found in the area since April. The unfinished passage emerges in a building belonging to an import/export company.

Over the past decade, more than 75 illegal tunnels have been found along the 2,000-mile US-Mexico border

http://www.theguardian.com/world/vid...unnel-us-video

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT IDIOT RACIST TRUMP DOESN'T KNOW ALL THIS WHEN A FEW OF THOSE SMART PEOPLE ON TIBB DO.

[user104658]

Cartels have little, if anything, to do with economic migration.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Cartels have little, if anything, to do with economic migration.

But their 'merchandise' has a hell of a lot to do with damaging the US economy.

America is in the grip of a devastating drug problem and collosal sums of money are being spent on Police, Security, Judicial, Prison, and Medical Services, by way of:

'Policing' the border.
Detecting the hundreds of thousands of criminals who work in the drug trade within America once those drugs are successfully smuggled by the Mexicans over or under the border.
Dealing with the thousands of violent crimes and murders which are 'Drug Related'
Maintaining the Penal Institutions where the above are sent when caught - which is the minority, as most are not caught.

The most severe damage which the drug cartels are responsible for causing to the USA though, is that inflicted upon the poorest and most vulnerable of its citizens who make up the largest group of users, and once addicted ALL hope of bettering their lives is gone - no matter how slim a chance they had of doing so anyway.

Trump is correct in what he says - even though he should have chosen his way of expressing what he says more wisely - and Mexicans ARE a MAJOR problem to the USA's Economy and Security.

The Drug Trade and People Trafficking are multi Billion Dollar industries, and wherever there are such huge amounts of money there is ALWAYS Goverment corruption, and some corrupt Mexicans in positions of authority are making huge sums from their corruption - from Mexican Politicians who are illicitly working FOR the Drug Cartels, to Immigration Agents and Border Guards who are assisting the Drug Smugglers and People Traffickers to 'smuggle' their 'merchandise' into the USA.

There are well documented cases of such Mexican Authorities offering valid US identification for sale, including US Passports and Social Security Numbers, and of Border Guards actually assisting illegal entry into the US by advising the 'Smugglers' and 'turning a blind eye'.

The $64,000 Dollar Question is this T.S.:

With such types of corruption among the Mexican Authorities at ALL levels, how long will it be before ISIS Suicide Bombers or Terrorists - who can more than match the wealth of the Drug Cartels and People Traffickers - start to bung a few hundred thousand to the these corrupt Mexican Authorities, or the Drug Cartels and People Traffickers themselves, and start to FREELY enter the USA by these many and diverse routes?

Trump is not an idiot. Nor is he xenophobic or racist.

He is correct.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

But their 'merchandise' has a hell of a lot to do with damaging the US economy.

America is in the grip of a devastating drug problem and collosal sums of money are being spent on Police, Security, Judicial, Prison, and Medical Services, by way of:

'Policing' the border.
Detecting the hundreds of thousands of criminals who work in the drug trade within America once those drugs are successfully smuggled by the Mexicans over or under the border.
Dealing with the thousands of violent crimes and murders which are 'Drug Related'
Maintaining the Penal Institutions where the above are sent when caught - which is the minority, as most are not caught.

The most severe damage which the drug cartels are responsible for causing to the USA though, is that inflicted upon the poorest and most vulnerable of its citizens who make up the largest group of users, and once addicted ALL hope of bettering their lives is gone - no matter how slim a chance they had of doing so anyway.

Trump is correct in what he says - even though he should have chosen his way of expressing what he says more wisely - and Mexicans ARE a MAJOR problem to the USA's Economy and Security.

The Drug Trade and People Trafficking are multi Billion Dollar industries, and wherever there are such huge amounts of money there is ALWAYS Goverment corruption, and some corrupt Mexicans in positions of authority are making huge sums from their corruption - from Mexican Politicians who are illicitly working FOR the Drug Cartels, to Immigration Agents and Border Guards who are assisting the Drug Smugglers and People Traffickers to 'smuggle' their 'merchandise' into the USA.

There are well documented cases of such Mexican Authorities offering valid US identification for sale, including US Passports and Social Security Numbers, and of Border Guards actually assisting illegal entry into the US by advising the 'Smugglers' and 'turning a blind eye'.

The $64,000 Dollar Question is this T.S.:

With such types of corruption among the Mexican Authorities at ALL levels, how long will it be before ISIS Suicide Bombers or Terrorists - who can more than match the wealth of the Drug Cartels and People Traffickers - start to bung a few hundred thousand to the these corrupt Mexican Authorities, or the Drug Cartels and People Traffickers themselves, and start to FREELY enter the USA by these many and diverse routes?

Trump is not an idiot. Nor is he xenophobic or racist.

He is correct.

But Trump hasnt only talked about tightening borders, he's talked specifically about targeting and deporting Mexican families and individual economic migrants who have lived there for decades. That reveals his attitudes for exactly what they are. Trying to link or liken all Mexican migrants into the US to drugs or cartels is just as offensive and even more ridiculous than branding all Muslims terrorists. The HUGE majority of Mexicans living in the United States are normal working families, often doing the jobs that US citizens do not want for less money and with zero employment rights. Several US economists have pointed out the "ugly truth" that there are large sections of the US economy that would struggle to operate without cheap immigrant labour.

Tightening the borders may have the EFFECT of lessening the ability of drug cartels to operate, but it's perfectly clear that his major motivation is simply to keep Mexicans - ALL Mexicans - out. And not for the benefit of US security or economy. Just because it's his M.O., he lives in a fantasy world where the US can close borders and in effect become a massive "gated community", and be an entirely self-sufficient economic powerhouse where everyone lives happily ignoring the problems of the rest of the world.