[kirklancaster]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but:

With at least 8 Nuclear Weapons lost and still unnaccounted for by the USA during the 50's and 60's, and the high probability that there could be MANY times that number of 'missing' nukes or 'stolen' weapons grade nuclear materials in the years since and right up to the present if we choose to disregard the US authorities assurances to the contrary (the SAME authorities who spent decades DENYING that most of these 8 nukes had gone missing in the first place).

Add in to this nightmare scenario, the very real probability that a HUNDRED or more nukes were unnaccounted for when the Soviet Union collapsed, and it is ridiculous to intimate that full 'nukes' or 'weapons grade' plutonium or uranium is impossible or even all that 'difficult' for terrorist organisations to obtain.

As for; it being impossible to 'smuggle' such nukes or weapons grade material into the USA, when one considers that 75 ILLEGAL TUNNELS leading from MEXICO into the USA have recently been discovered in the San Diego area alone - including 'Super Tech' tunnels complete with railways - Arista's scenario is very FEASIBLE.

Especially given the probability that the 75 discovered tunnels are merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but:

With at least 8 Nuclear Weapons lost and still unnaccounted for by the USA during the 50's and 60's, and the high probability that there could be MANY times that number of 'missing' nukes or 'stolen' weapons grade nuclear materials in the years since and right up to the present if we choose to disregard the US authorities assurances to the contrary (the SAME authorities who spent decades DENYING that most of these 8 nukes had gone missing in the first place).

Add in to this nightmare scenario, the very real probability that a HUNDRED or more nukes were unnaccounted for when the Soviet Union collapsed, and it is ridiculous to intimate that full 'nukes' or 'weapons grade' plutonium or uranium is impossible or even all that 'difficult' for terrorist organisations to obtain.

As for; it being impossible to 'smuggle' such nukes or weapons grade material into the USA, when one considers that 75 ILLEGAL TUNNELS leading from MEXICO into the USA have recently been discovered in the San Diego area alone - including 'Super Tech' tunnels complete with railways - Arista's scenario is very FEASIBLE.

Especially given the probability that the 75 discovered tunnels are merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

I'd imagine they probably have 30 to 40 high-yield warheads and at least one stealth bomber.

There was actually a tunnel found around 40 miles from the Mexican border and it was the EXACT shape of a stealth bomber, so one probably just flew through that. No one would ever know because they are entirely invisible, and even if someone DID see them, they would be instantly vapourized in nuclear fire. Sooo.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but:

With at least 8 Nuclear Weapons lost and still unnaccounted for by the USA during the 50's and 60's, and the high probability that there could be MANY times that number of 'missing' nukes or 'stolen' weapons grade nuclear materials in the years since and right up to the present if we choose to disregard the US authorities assurances to the contrary (the SAME authorities who spent decades DENYING that most of these 8 nukes had gone missing in the first place).

Add in to this nightmare scenario, the very real probability that a HUNDRED or more nukes were unnaccounted for when the Soviet Union collapsed, and it is ridiculous to intimate that full 'nukes' or 'weapons grade' plutonium or uranium is impossible or even all that 'difficult' for terrorist organisations to obtain.

As for; it being impossible to 'smuggle' such nukes or weapons grade material into the USA, when one considers that 75 ILLEGAL TUNNELS leading from MEXICO into the USA have recently been discovered in the San Diego area alone - including 'Super Tech' tunnels complete with railways - Arista's scenario is very FEASIBLE.

Especially given the probability that the 75 discovered tunnels are merely the tip of a very large iceberg.

Nah, it's a scenario that only happens in films. Your whole post relies on the fact that those weapons are actually missing, you see governments don't tend to leave loose ends when it comes to nukes. They don't just write off bombs that could end the world, shockingly enough.

Chances are those nukes have already been recovered and/or destroyed.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nah, it's a scenario that only happens in films. Your whole post relies on the fact that those weapons are actually missing, you see governments don't tend to leave loose ends when it comes to nukes. They don't just write off bombs that could end the world, shockingly enough.

Chances are those nukes have already been recovered and/or destroyed.

As ALWAYS - my post relies on nothing but FACTS.

ALL governments LIE to the people, and only admit the lies when they have no other alternative, and it is TOTALLY illogical to contend that the very SAME government who have spent years DENYING losing nukes to cover their embarrassment, then FIND those lost nukes but FAIL to publicise that fact.

No - those USA nukes were lost, and remain unaccounted for, as are the unknown number of nukes 'lost' by the Soviets during the collapse of their 'Empire'.

As for; "It's a scenario that only happens in films", I will say only that 'Life is often stranger than fiction', as attested by the incident of the U.S.S. Scorpion in 1968 - a very mysteroious case which has never been satisfactorily explained and is worthy of a Hollywood Blockbuster film script.

"While returning to home base in Norfolk, Virginia, the U.S.S. Scorpion, a nuclear attack submarine, mysteriously sank about 400 miles to the southwest of the Azores islands. In addition to the tragic loss of all 99 crewmembers, the Scorpion was carrying two unspecified nuclear weapons—either anti-submarine missiles or torpedoes that were tipped with nuclear warheads. These could yield up to 250 kilotons explosive power (depending which kind of weapon was used)"

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

ALL governments LIE to the people, and only admit the lies when they have no other alternative, and it is TOTALLY illogical to contend that the very SAME government who have spent years DENYING losing nukes to cover their embarrassment, then FIND those lost nukes but FAIL to publicise that fact.

Nah, it's entirely logical to assume that a government that has lied about losing nukes would keep it hush-hush if/when they recovered them. Come on, kirk.

"We haven't lost any nukes."
"Honest, all of our nukes are accounted for."
"Seriously! We have never even come close to losing a nuclear warhead"
"We honestly know where every single one is at all times. "

...

"Hey guys! We found a nuke! Remember we said we hadn't lost any? Well, actually we did but we've found it now so it's OK.... ... ... Other nukes? Oh no, it was just that one. We have never lost any other nukes, honest."

Tl;dr: announcing the recovery of a nuke requires an admission that one was lost in the first place. It's entirely logical to assume that they would say nothing.

[DemolitionRed]

Government agents manage to lose 8 nuclear weapons and they want us to trust them with our personal information?!?!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Government agents manage to lose 8 nuclear weapons and they want us to trust them with our personal information?!?!

Do you trust Apple or any other International tech company any more than the US government?

[Kizzy]

Or sold...

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Or sold...

What a scary possibility.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Or sold...

Yes Cash
moves these products
Nothing do with a Film Script At All.



Bang On Right Kizzy

Having a Bunker
is good for the Worlds Future

[DemolitionRed]

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but

Says the TIBB expert of absolutely everything

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but

Says the TIBB expert of absolutely everything

Hush now, it's well established that Kirk is TiBB's resident Polymath.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hush now, it's well established that Kirk is TiBB's resident Polymath.

How Nice

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I hate to piss on any TIBB expert's parade, but

Says the TIBB expert of absolutely everything

'Sapientia Et Veritas' dear girl, 'Sapientia Et Veritas'.

You should try a little of both in your next posts.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

'Sapientia Et Veritas' dear girl, 'Sapientia Et Veritas'.

You should try a little of both in your next posts.

Humilitas non vanitas est, Kirk, you are a Christian after all .

[bots]

If a terrorist group has the will and the money, it can get its hands on WMD's. It doesn't have to be a nuke, a chemical or biological weapon will be just as devastating, and almost impossible to trace.

However, that doesn't give the fbi the right to take our freedoms away. I think there is a principle at stake and we must hold on to our freedoms and democracy at these times, when we are most tested, or we wll lose them forever.

[DemolitionRed]

Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare

You should know dear.

But let me add in the Queen's English, that only a fool persists in posting without checking their sources OR their grammar.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

You should know dear.

But let me add in the Queen's English, that only a fool persists in posting without checking their sources OR their grammar.

Says the guy who posts in a dead language :/

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Says the guy who posts in a dead language :/

And pray enlighten us all as to just which 'Dead Language' this is? Are you referring to the Queen's English or Latin - BOTH of which may well be 'Dead' in your part of the world, but neither of which are 'dead' in the part of the world I live in, nor the circles which I move in.

[arista]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And pray enlighten us all as to just which 'Dead Language' this is? Are you referring to the Queen's English or Latin - BOTH of which may well be 'Dead' in your part of the world, but neither of which are 'dead' in the part of the world I live in, nor the circles which I move in.

Long Live Kirk

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

And pray enlighten us all as to just which 'Dead Language' this is? Are you referring to the Queen's English or Latin - BOTH of which may well be 'Dead' in your part of the world, but neither of which are 'dead' in the part of the world I live in, nor the circles which I move in.

So it's true! Latin is the preferred spoken tongue in those "secret societies" I've heard about .

[billy123]

Well this thread unsurprisingly seems to have been completely derailed after the right wing Gestapo style government lovers were shown up as talking bollocks. (as usual)

The argument that everybody should give up their right to privacy wasn't exactly their shiniest moment

[bots]

If one looks at this logically, accessing a dead terrorists phone to see what he had planned to do next doesn't make sense, he is more than likely dead because he carried out the planned act.

It may provide information on other cell members, but in this particular case, they appeared to be working in isolation, so nothing to be gained there.

Also, something to add, once you are dead, you lose all rights to privacy, so the FBI can do what they want with your phone. If you are still alive, its a different matter, and they should go through the correct legal procedures to obtain it on a case by case basis.

The point I am making is that the highest value information comes from the living, not the dead, and that's where security forces should be channeling their efforts

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

If one looks at this logically, accessing a dead terrorists phone to see what he had planned to do next doesn't make sense, he is more than likely dead because he carried out the planned act.

It may provide information on other cell members, but in this particular case, they appeared to be working in isolation, so nothing to be gained there.

Also, something to add, once you are dead, you lose all rights to privacy, so the FBI can do what they want with your phone. If you are still alive, its a different matter, and they should go through the correct legal procedures to obtain it on a case by case basis.

The point I am making is that the highest value information comes from the living, not the dead, and that's where security forces should be channeling their efforts

..this is what I keep thinking, bitontheslide...if the FBI themselves are saying that they were acting completely alone and now obviously they're both dead...then what information would there be that could link to any terrorist cells because they weren't part of one..their determination doesn't quite make sense to me with this because it seems so contradictory...