[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I dunno what happened. I'm starting to think that someone kidnapped Kirk, drained out all of his charm and intelligence, but left his opinions intact, and sent him back with a new identity.

It's a shame Kirk felt he had to leave. He was a character.

[arista]

Originally Posted by smudgie

He has been officially invited, so he will get the red carpet treatment.
If it makes people feel better to protest then so be it.
As far as I can see he is carrying out what he was voted in on.

Yes around June 2017

[Tom4784]

It's a statement of intent that people will not stand for the civil rights abuses that he has already committed. Whether it's successful or not doesn't matter.

It's kind of odd how people want to protect Trump from the consequences of his actions though, all leaders should be held accountable and the people should be allowed to have their say. This desperation to silence dissenting voices is quite worrying.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a statement of intent that people will not stand for the civil rights abuses that he has already committed. Whether it's successful or not doesn't matter.

It's kind of odd how people want to protect Trump from the consequences of his actions though, all leaders should be held accountable and the people should be allowed to have their say. This desperation to silence dissenting voices is quite worrying.

Sure Dezzy
Like the China Leader arriving to see Blair and the Queen.
there was some protests, but kept away from
Cars with the leaders.

All these protests Change Nothing


Business as Usual

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a statement of intent that people will not stand for the civil rights abuses that he has already committed. Whether it's successful or not doesn't matter.

It's kind of odd how people want to protect Trump from the consequences of his actions though, all leaders should be held accountable and the people should be allowed to have their say. This desperation to silence dissenting voices is quite worrying.

Where were 'people' last year when China's President visited? In comparison to their abuses of their own nationals and their neighbors this Getting hot under the collar about Trump seems hysterical.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Where were 'people' last year when China's President visited? In comparison to their abuses of their own nationals and their neighbors this Getting hot under the collar about Trump seems hysterical.

One protest doesn't change or devalue the other. I don't get this obsession you and others seem to have suggesting that people's opinions or protests are invalid unless they are part of ALL protests.

It seems like a weak way to try to silence someone's opinion in all honesty, you should try to engage in the debate, not try to stifle it.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

One protest doesn't change or devalue the other. I don't get this obsession you and others seem to have suggesting that people's opinions or protests are invalid unless they are part of ALL protests.

It seems like a weak way to try to silence someone's opinion in all honesty, you should try to engage in the debate, not try to stifle it.

I have engaged by giving my opinion. Your not agreeing with it doesn't make it less valid as a contribution. I think this protest is a poor choice of battle if you want to talk weak. I didn't say you should engage with all protests but there are other much more terrible things to protest about.

Imo the US will have this pause, then introduce a new, stronger checking system for those enterng and then the entering will resume. It's a silly storm in a silly teacup and there are far greater abuses In the world to get upset about.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Do you have a link for that?

Sorry, it was on Newsnight tonight.
Just started up today I think.

[James]

These petitions are bit reactionary, in the true sense of the word. People are seeing something they don't like and then putting their names to something without thinking of the long-term consequences.

Imagine how Trump would react if we did cancel the state visit, having offered it? He would treat it as a major personal snub - we've given state visits to all recent US Presidents - and he would ignore our views even more. He's the President of the United States and we need to co-operate with the US, not just because of the trade deal, but also because we want them to keep committed to NATO, which Trump has threatened before not to do.

I saw Malcolm Rifkind on the news earlier and he said that with Trump not having any political experience, and not knowing much about foreign affairs he will be relying on other advisor's opinions to mold his opinions. The British government has to be involved in that to have whatever influence we can.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by James

These petitions are bit reactionary, in the true sense of the word. People are seeing something they don't like and then putting their names to something without thinking of the long-term consequences.

Imagine how Trump would react if we did cancel the state visit, having offered it? He would treat it as a major personal snub - we've given state visits to all recent US Presidents - and he would ignore our views even more. He's the President of the United States and we need to co-operate with the US, not just because of the trade deal, but also because we want them to keep committed to NATO, which Trump has threatened before not to do.

I saw Malcolm Rifkind on the news earlier and he said that with Trump not having any political experience, and not knowing much about foreign affairs he will be relying on other advisor's opinions to mold his opinions. The British government has to be involved in that to have whatever influence we can.

This is a brilliant post James and very intelligently put.

[Jack_]

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

[arista]

"These petitions are bit reactionary,"


Yes James
Nothing is Going to Change.


Respect The Law Of The Land
June Trump will Fly In

Time to sell more Hats..............

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have engaged by giving my opinion. Your not agreeing with it doesn't make it less valid as a contribution. I think this protest is a poor choice of battle if you want to talk weak. I didn't say you should engage with all protests but there are other much more terrible things to protest about.

Imo the US will have this pause, then introduce a new, stronger checking system for those enterng and then the entering will resume. It's a silly storm in a silly teacup and there are far greater abuses In the world to get upset about.

Then go protest them?

You could say 'there's bigger problems in the world' about literally ANYTHING and it doesn't change the fact that there's a problem in the first place. Most security experts worth their salt agree that the ban is ineffective. It's just a move to fool gullible people into believing he is doing something useful. All he has achieved is increasing the likelihood of another major terror attack in the future because this ban just gave the extremists ammunition.

No security measure that basically paints all Muslims as a threat will ever help combat terrorism.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by James

These petitions are bit reactionary, in the true sense of the word. People are seeing something they don't like and then putting their names to something without thinking of the long-term consequences.

Imagine how Trump would react if we did cancel the state visit, having offered it? He would treat it as a major personal snub - we've given state visits to all recent US Presidents - and he would ignore our views even more. He's the President of the United States and we need to co-operate with the US, not just because of the trade deal, but also because we want them to keep committed to NATO, which Trump has threatened before not to do.

I saw Malcolm Rifkind on the news earlier and he said that with Trump not having any political experience, and not knowing much about foreign affairs he will be relying on other advisor's opinions to mold his opinions. The British government has to be involved in that to have whatever influence we can.

I refuse to bow down to a fascist because people voted to **** us over in the Referendum or because Trump might throw a temper tantrum and make some decisions that will be rectified as soon as he leaves the White House which is likely to be sooner rather than later.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have engaged by giving my opinion. Your not agreeing with it doesn't make it less valid as a contribution. I think this protest is a poor choice of battle if you want to talk weak. I didn't say you should engage with all protests but there are other much more terrible things to protest about.

Imo the US will have this pause, then introduce a new, stronger checking system for those enterng and then the entering will resume. It's a silly storm in a silly teacup and there are far greater abuses In the world to get upset about.

Completely agree. The whole thing feels like one big sulk to me especially as you say there are far greater abuses in the world, ironically many of which are committed by those they seek to protect.

These type of hysterical protests are as immature and reactionary as that of those they protest against.

[Brillopad]

Do I believe what I hear when those that have the nerve to talk of 'stifling free speech' are quite happy to stifle away with abusive comments to others when it suits. Yep I do as that kind of hypocrisy is commonplace in many threads.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

Well whoever that is sounds very intelligent and people admire such people

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Then go protest them?

You could say 'there's bigger problems in the world' about literally ANYTHING and it doesn't change the fact that there's a problem in the first place. Most security experts worth their salt agree that the ban is ineffective. It's just a move to fool gullible people into believing he is doing something useful. All he has achieved is increasing the likelihood of another major terror attack in the future because this ban just gave the extremists ammunition.

No security measure that basically paints all Muslims as a threat will ever help combat terrorism.

You presume a great deal with very few facts.

All this rabid anti Trump reaction is bizarre to me when there are bigger fish to fry but as is often the case those with a bee in their bonnet are not listening to other opinions or to common sense.

In my view it's about picking your battles and this isn't the right one. Maybe it's because Trump is a 'safe' target.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well whoever that is sounds very intelligent and people admire such people

Good point Kaz.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Jack_

That is inspired. One of the best protest chants of all time?

Wow inspirational.....

I wouldn't be lying if i said i've heard more intellectual chants on the terraces of football grounds

[joeysteele]

I doubt this petition will change anything other than draw attention to the issue.

For me the offer of the visit was premature.
This man in my view is a dangerous President, I'd have been cordial but not so arms open wide to him.

[Withano]

Trump will enter the UK with the knowledge that he inspired several protests and the 2nd largest petition in UK's history.
Im not sure if he cares yet, he was handed a ****-tonne of power, but his allies are against him, his enemies are against him even more so than before, and half of his own country is against him. His power will subside, and I do believe the UK are among the first of many to send this message.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Withano

Trump will enter the UK with the knowledge that he inspired several protests and the 2nd largest petition in UK's history.
Im not sure if he cares yet, he was handed a ****-tonne of power, but his allies are against him, his enemies are against him even more so than before, and half of his own country is against him. His power will subside, and I do believe the UK are among the first of many to send this message.

I had no expectations when I signed that petition and no expectations when I joined the protesters last night. What that petition and protest has done for me is show unity and unity is important in times like this. Its heartening to know that millions feel the same way we do and its reassuring to know that people will stand up and fight for democracy.

American Muslims and relatives of American Muslims presently have no voice of their own. We are that voice.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Well whoever that is sounds very intelligent and people admire such people

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Wow inspirational.....

I wouldn't be lying if i said i've heard more intellectual chants on the terraces of football grounds

Maybe you should both lighten up a little? Unless you're not aware of the song it's taken from idk

I happen to think exercising your democratic right to protest is highly intelligent, actually. Using the word '****' doesn't negate that, astounded that people think it does.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I had no expectations when I signed that petition and no expectations when I joined the protesters last night. What that petition and protest has done for me is show unity and unity is important in times like this. Its heartening to know that millions feel the same way we do and its reassuring to know that people will stand up and fight for democracy.

American Muslims and relatives of American Muslims presently have no voice of their own. We are that voice.

Yeh, I signed the petition with the same thought process - im pretty sure that they decided against debating the - anti-we're gonna look through your internet history- petition despite it getting enough signatures?.. A message from a million people is enough of a reason to do it though for me. There is simply no way that Trump and May don't know about it. And that's progress.