[Christmas Dynasnow]

The problem is we only have her word for it that she wants to be a woman as there is no scientific way we can prove this, like say a worn hip joint. So its very based on trust rather than medical evidence.

Unless I have that wrong, which is possible?

Also now if you want the snip you may now not get it (saw this on that doc prog this week) until you try all other means of contraception! So you cant get the snip but you can get the chop !

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The problem is we only have her word for it that she wants to be a woman as there is no scientific way we can prove this, like say a worn hip joint. So its very based on trust rather than medical evidence.

Unless I have that wrong, which is possible?

Also now if you want the snip you may now not get it (saw this on that doc prog this week) until you try all other means of contraception! So you cant get the snip but you can get the chop !

Why would somebody have a sex change if they are not transsexual?

[bots]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Why would somebody have a sex change if they are not transsexual?

attention seeking would be at least one reason. I know people go though stringent evaluations, but it's not the first time someone has been fooled.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

attention seeking would be at least one reason. I know people go though stringent evaluations, but it's not the first time someone has been fooled.

I can't imagine anyone having their genitals removed for attention seeking reasons unless of course there was something very wrong psychologically, but being so extreme I think that would be quite easy to spot for a trained professional. India especially doesn't seem unstable or that she has extreme psychological problems.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The problem is we only have her word for it that she wants to be a woman as there is no scientific way we can prove this, like say a worn hip joint. So its very based on trust rather than medical evidence.

Unless I have that wrong, which is possible?

Also now if you want the snip you may now not get it (saw this on that doc prog this week) until you try all other means of contraception! So you cant get the snip but you can get the chop !

Just her word? The fact that she's had the procedures at all aren't a big ****ing clue?

Why else would anybody go through the trauma of that kind of procedure?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Just her word? The fact that she's had the procedures at all aren't a big ****ing clue?

Why else would anybody go through the trauma of that kind of procedure?

India said the pro proceedure itself wasn't a trauma and has had worse at the dentist.

[Christmas Lights]

Originally Posted by jaxie

India said the pro proceedure itself wasn't a trauma and has had worse at the dentist.

I know she said it , but i honestly find that extremely difficult to believe . Even with a high pain threshold a huge operation like that is going impact you surely ? .

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I know she said it , but i honestly find that extremely difficult to believe . Even with a high pain threshold a huge operation like that is going impact you surely ? .

Can only go on what India said.

Women go through childbirth with something like a small melon being forced out of your body, which often includes vaginal tears or cuts and needs stitching, and recover easily afterwards. Just soreness and sometimes a bit of a sting from the stitches, specially first few times you wee and when the stitches are dissolving they go a bit hard. With experience of that I'll take India's word for it that post op isn't too bad.

It's funny the first time I had a baby I was really worried about the bit where the baby leaves your body, it looks dreadful in all the birth films but was excrutiating pain of the contractions that did me in. It's agony. The actual baby coming out was something of a relief to get rid of it and stop the pain.

Everyone alive has a mum who has had to do that. Since we are celebrating women, thank you mum's!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

India said the pro proceedure itself wasn't a trauma and has had worse at the dentist.

Good for her. It's still major surgery, not to mention all of the hormone treatments. Nobody does that unless they actually want it.

[Babayaro.]

NOT the attention seeking claims

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by Babayaro.

NOT the attention seeking claims

A lost cause at this point!

[Livia]

The thing is, she IS an attention seeker. She was probably an attention seeker when she was a man. They didn't alter her personality.

Furthermore, calling someone WHO IS ON CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER an attention seeker is, I think, a fair claim, whatever their gender.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

The thing is, she IS an attention seeker. She was probably an attention seeker when she was a man. They didn't alter her personality.

Yes, as a lot of people are, but attention seeking isn't the reason she will have had a sex change operation, which is the point being made.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yes, as a lot of people are, but attention seeking isn't the reason she will have had a sex change operation, which is the point being made.

That can only be an assumption from either side as no-one can prove it, which was LT's original point.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Yes, as a lot of people are, but attention seeking isn't the reason she will have had a sex change operation, which is the point being made.

I was referring to the fact that I had called her an attention seeker. And she is.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was referring to the fact that I had called her an attention seeker. And she is.

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

That can only be an assumption from either side as no-one can prove it, which was LT's original point.

Well no I can't prove it, I don't know anything about the assessments India has had, I just consider it extremely unlikely and it puzzles me why someone would believe that side over the other side because it makes so much more sense to me.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.

I said she is an attention and she was probably an attention seeker when she was a man... and that her personality will be much the same now as then. I just don't like her, and that has nothing to do with her gender.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.



Well no I can't prove it, I don't know anything about the assessments India has had, I just consider it extremely unlikely and it puzzles me why someone would believe that side over the other side because it makes so much more sense to me.

the difference is that believing or not does enter into the equation where other critical NHS procedures are based on hard fact and evidence. Like it or not NHS services will always have to be prioritised and as such there will always be negative voices raised when something cannot be proven in black and white terms.

I don't set the priorities, but I can fully understand those that are waiting on life dependent treatment questioning priorities.

[Jamie89]

I don't think anyone would deny that BB contestants are attention seeking

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't think anyone would deny that BB contestants are attention seeking

some are more attention seeking than others but they all want attention indeed

[Christmas Dynasnow]

that repulsive dress the other night rather defeats the "not an attention seeker claims"

[Gusto Brunt]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

that repulsive dress the other night rather defeats the "not an attention seeker claims"

The dress would have looked awful on anyone. Man, woman, or beast.

[Candy Annie Cane]

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

She said last night she had it done on the NHS

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

Its so wrong how so many treatments are basically a postcode lottery.

I don't think cosmetic surgery should be available on the NHS. I have needed a breast reduction since being about 14 and it used to seriously piss me off how I was told no yet one of my friends managed to get a breast enlargement on the NHS. Mine was for health reasons, hers was purely cosmetic. Though I do think reconstructions after mastectomies should be available.

I think being mad at the people who get treatments on the NHS is the wrong way to go though. Its not their fault that people are denied lifesaving treatment under the guise of funding being too low, whilst others are getting non-essential treatments. There needs to be a clear system in place, not changed by where you live, not pot luck...and finally, the NHS needs more ****ing funding fullstop. I do think NHS treatments should be stuff thats actually NEEDED (such as chemo) rather than wanted though, whilst funding is so low. Anything non-essential should just be done when there is the time/money rather than being prioritized and if people don't like the waiting lists, they can go private. There are actually pushes going on right now from an extremist group that advise the government (!) to say 'sex changes' are classed as essential and should be prioritized. Whilst at the same time saying that mental health help for people 'trapped in the wrong body' is 'transphobic'. Healing the mind first would make so much sense. Noone knows what the actual effects of long term hormones and such are (especially in kids) and I think so much more research needs to be going into stuff like this,m along with research into detransitioners.

Edit. heres the 'manifesto'. Makes seriously bonkers reading.

https://edinburghath.tumblr.com/post...alth-manifesto

ATH advise the government on law changes to do with trans matters. They are very clearly an extremist group, and just ridiculous self centred arseholes. Quite why anyone takes them seriously I do not know. But people clearly do. They also defend and even encourage violence.