[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

people: yikes John is homophobic!
you: YIKES that's... really intolerant? If you want him to yknow.... not be homophobic.... maybe you should... not say he's homophobic? just a thought sweaties! :^) Anyway I'm gonna carry on telling yall why John thinks like that even though he explained why he thinks like he does on the show. anyway John was raised in a different time and is aware that he's flawed in his way of thinking yet shown no remorse or attempt to hold back with what he said but J'EXCUSED because he's froma few generations ago !

Perhaps after reading your post, I was expecting too much

Sweetie!!!!! yall

[Ant.]

Like... I think everyone here knows and understands that John didn't exactly grow up in a time where gay people are seen on telly as equal to straight people... I think everyone acknowledges that John was raised in a time where homophobia (can I use that word or is that a 'label' ) was a lot more prominent... and if they didn't then John already explained that he was later on in the show. But just because he was conditioned to be told that was acceptable, doesn't mean what he says can be excused?? His upbringing provides reason as to why he's homophobic, it doesn't excuse it. And I'll call him homophobic because that's what he was and that's what he admitted to being

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Can I just put my spin on Johns comments.

The older generation were brought up to view homosexuality as wrong in the mildest sense and shocking in a stronger sense.

This younger generation have been brought up in a world where sexual preferences are acceptable.

Then, if the younger generation are told in the far future that their views they hold now are not correct and they must change their views immediately or get called every phobic name under the sun if they don't.

This is what the older generation are facing in today's world. How hard do you think it is to go against the grounding, teaching and cultures they were brought up with.

When the older generation passes away, so will the perceptions but until then, understanding and tolerance will make bigger inroads than name calling and attaching labels.

This is my way of explaining where John was coming from.

I think this is making excuses for him. This is more to do with his individual opinions than a generational thing. There are plenty of people older than John who have more enlightened views, and John has grown up in a time when he should be more aware.

I'm really surprised at John. Had the conversation been about passing such judgements on someone due to outdated views on race, he would have (quite rightly) been disgusted and people wouldn't be making excuses for those views on the grounds of age.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

He didn't want, like or ask for it, that's where he was coming from.

I can see that argument if he were a woman getting unwanted advances from a bloke, but hes a big bloke and shouldnt feel threatened...so why he feels so intolerent now, at this age shouldbt be put down to the way it was percieved in his youth....especially not when he used to get all greased up before daintily parading about the pitch in the shortest tightest shorts legally allowed in public in those days..the blokes a hypocrite.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

Like... I think everyone here knows and understands that John didn't exactly grow up in a time where gay people are seen on telly as equal to straight people... I think everyone acknowledges that John was raised in a time where homophobia (can I use that word or is that a 'label' ) was a lot more prominent... and if they didn't then John already explained that he was later on in the show. But just because he was conditioned to be told that was acceptable, doesn't mean what he says can be excused?? His upbringing provides reason as to why he's homophobic, it doesn't excuse it. And I'll call him homophobic because that's what he was and that's what he admitted to being

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

Me: Hi I don't like it when anyone who isnt white speaks to me because I didn't ask them to.
Someone: y did u say that?
Me: I'm aware of it but I was raised racist but you can't label me that! Soz hen

[Amy Jade]

I think blaming his awful views on being of the older generation is nonsensical when we have an 82 year old lesbian and a 69 year old gay man in the house.

John's view is homophobic and that's that, there should be no petty excuses for his mindset.

[poppsywoppsy]

Isn't it down to a culture thing too. There are a lot of older men who think like him.
It is not nonsensical at all.
They do not speak about it because the PC brigade would be down on them, as they have been on John.

He doesn't have to be around anyone he doesn't want to be, straight or Gay.

Amanda and Wayne are not who he was talking about. He was speaking of Shane J who is vastly different in the way he chooses to be from Amanda and Wayne.

As he doesn't do anything untoward to anyone, he should be able to think and live how he chooses.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

I think blaming his awful views on being of the older generation is nonsensical when we have an 82 year old lesbian and a 69 year old gay man in the house.

John's view is homophobic and that's that, there should be no petty excuses for his mindset.

[rusticgal]

I knew something like this would happen given time. John Barnes has kept a cap on it so far...I have said it all along. For someone who is so outspoken on racism and discrimination in football...he has shown his true colours and shown himself to be a complete twat and a hypocrite.

[Epic.]

Originally Posted by Lilbro

Like... I think everyone here knows and understands that John didn't exactly grow up in a time where gay people are seen on telly as equal to straight people... I think everyone acknowledges that John was raised in a time where homophobia (can I use that word or is that a 'label' ) was a lot more prominent... and if they didn't then John already explained that he was later on in the show. But just because he was conditioned to be told that was acceptable, doesn't mean what he says can be excused?? His upbringing provides reason as to why he's homophobic, it doesn't excuse it. And I'll call him homophobic because that's what he was and that's what he admitted to being

An excellent post There's an old saying of mine to describe what he was like tonight; It might explain his actions but it doesn't excuse them.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

Isn't it down to a culture thing too. There are a lot of older men who think like him.
It is not nonsensical at all.
They do not speak about it because the PC brigade would be down on them, as they have been on John.

He doesn't have to be around anyone he doesn't want to be, straight or Gay.

Amanda and Wayne are not who he was talking about. He was speaking of Shane J who is vastly different in the way he chooses to be from Amanda and Wayne.

More excuses. Insert the word 'black' where you have 'gay', and then ask yourself whether such views should be excused. Perhaps John should do the same.

Think also about what he (and you in defending him) are implying about Shane J
as that is another major issue in what you are saying here.

[pontyboi]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I can see that argument if he were a woman getting unwanted advances from a bloke, but hes a big bloke and shouldnt feel threatened...so why he feels so intolerent now, at this age shouldbt be put down to the way it was percieved in his youth....especially not when he used to get all greased up before daintily parading about the pitch in the shortest tightest shorts legally allowed in public in those days..the blokes a hypocrite.

John has preached in previous episodes though about gender, sexuality doesn't mean a thing to him.

His comments that Andrew could only be invited to his (what I'm assuming is a BBQ in his back garden) if he didn't sleep with johnny was just ****ing ridiculous.

[poppsywoppsy]

So, you are saying he has to change his views.

He said, he didn't want to be hit on, propositioned or in the company of gay men where it might happen.

It makes him uncomfortable, That was the gist of his conversation.

Due to the fact of his upbringing.

If others do want this, go ahead, no one is stopping you, he doesn't want it or care if they do.

But, he mustn't say it out loud or he will be called names.

I find intolerant blinkered PC just as bad as anything he is accused of.

[Garfie]

[QUOTE=poppsywoppsy;9807960

He said, he didn't want to be hit on, propositioned or in the company of gay men where it might happen.

[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

[pontyboi]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

So, you are saying he has to change his views.

He said, he didn't want to be hit on, propositioned or in the company of gay men where it might happen.

It makes him uncomfortable, That was the gist of his conversation.

Due to the fact of his upbringing.

If others do want this, go ahead, no one is stopping you, he doesn't want it or care if they do.

But, he mustn't say it out loud or he will be called names.

I find intolerant blinkered PC just as bad as anything he is accused of.

What im getting at is his comment that Andrew would be invited to his party outside the house as long as he didn't sleep with Shane j....how do you even defend that comment?

Neither of the boys have come on to John so that is john himself thinking homosexuality is wrong and pretty much thinking they will prey on him like a gay version of "wrong turn"!

A note to John neither of them men want to jump on you.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

So, you are saying he has to change his views.

He said, he didn't want to be hit on, propositioned or in the company of gay men where it might happen.

It makes him uncomfortable, That was the gist of his conversation.

Due to the fact of his upbringing.

If others do want this, go ahead, no one is stopping you, he doesn't want it or care if they do.

But, he mustn't say it out loud or he will be called names.

I find intolerant blinkered PC just as bad as anything he is accused of.

'Blinkered'!? There's an irony there!

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Garfie

Exactly!

That is his right. He does not have to be.

You cannot make him

This is a free country

You will never convert anyone to your views by calling them names either.

Try some tolerance and you might get somewhere, bashing. People over the head with your views will not.

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by pontyboi

What im getting at is his comment that Andrew would be invited to his party outside the house as long as he didn't sleep with Shane j....how do you even defend that comment?

Neither of the boys have come on to John so that is john himself thinking homosexuality is wrong and pretty much thinking they will prey on him like a gay version of "wrong turn"!

A note to John neither of them men want to jump on you.

What he said was not personal to anyone in the house. It was a general observation of his life previously.

I can see both sides of this, blinkered I am not. Some on here should get off their high horse and try to see that there is still a long way to go with the older generation than they think.

[GoldHeart]

Yeah because if John was a homophobic he'd really watch Shane J showing them how he tucks his little self away when he drags up . John wouldn't spend time or be near Shane J if he was prejudice. He was even patient with India.

Pretty sure most of the blokey blokes in the house will make jokes,Daniel & Jonny take the pee out of Courtney all the time and even laugh at the ridiculous showmance with Andrew.
And people accused Andrew of being Transphobe just because he called India a "prick", this over sensitive PC world is honestly a mess .

People like to throw "homophobic" around too easily. Surely that means Ann is as well then?? or maybe it's okay because she's a little old lady .Get real people .

Didn't Daniel throw a gay slur at the girls??? . But I guess because he's a arsehole comedian it's okay.

[Garfie]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

That is his right. He does not have to be.

You cannot make him

This is a free country

You will never convert anyone to your views by calling them names either.

Try some tolerance and you might get somewhere, bashing. People over the head with your views will not.

1. Perhaps you have, but I have not called anyone a name.
2. Homophobia is as wrong as racism is, and John would be against racism.
3. You sat 'try some tolerance'! Can you not see the irony in such a comment!!?
4. You are missing the point.

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Garfie

1. Perhaps you have, but I have not called anyone a name.
2. Homophobia is as wrong as racism is, and John would be against racism.
3. You sat 'try some tolerance'! Can you not see the irony in such a comment!!?
4. You are missing the point.

I am not missing the point at all, good discussion BTW

So, in fact you are saying John has to be in the company of gay men who might proposition him, although he doesn't want to be because if he doesn't, he is homophobic.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Garfie

1. Perhaps you have, but I have not called anyone a name.
2. Homophobia is as wrong as racism is, and John would be against racism.
3. You sat 'try some tolerance'! Can you not see the irony in such a comment!!?
4. You are missing the point.

So surely Andrew is transphobe then for calling India a "prick"? according to people's thoughts on here .
And Daniel is also HOMOPHOBIC for calling the girls "lesbians" as a joke ? .

And surely some of the hm's are sexist as they think men and women should have their stereotypical roles?.

People need to fight real prejudice and stop scrutinising jokes on a reality show .

[pontyboi]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

What he said was not personal to anyone in the house. It was a general observation of his life previously.

I can see both sides of this, blinkered I am not. Some on here should get off their high horse and try to see that there is still a long way to go with the older generation than they think.

The older generation though? Johns generation was the evolution of gay people back in the 80's. Frankie goes to hollywood, boy George, george Michael, Rock Hudson.

He's just a product of his time and won't change...he thinks gays are wrong and he can put on a smile and pretend he's fine with it to a point but cmon uninviting someone to his house because he may have slept with someone of the same gender is ****ed up.

It's straight up homophobia.

It seems we have gone backwards in such issues as the 80's were far more open minded as were the 90's. Seems a shame that it was people just keeping up appearances.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by pontyboi

The older generation though? Johns generation was the evolution of gay people back in the 80's. Frankie goes to hollywood, boy George, george Michael, Rock Hudson.

He's just a product of his time and won't change...he thinks gays are wrong and he can put on a smile and pretend he's fine with it to a point but cmon uninviting someone to his house because he may have slept with someone of the same gender is ****ed up.

It's straight up homophobia.

I didn't watch but I'm assuming John was joking,and maybe like a lot of us He's sick and tired of Andrew & Shane J's showmance .

Andrew is immature AF and maybe John can see through his BS ,so I doubt John would really want him at his party, it feels like people like to witch hunt and accuse others of prejudice too easily .

By that logic a few hm's have said sexist and daft comments.

What about Ann?? & Daniel??.