[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Me too Cherie, I think I have metal bones or something. I had to go into the full body scanner thing last time I flew, I wanted to see the image but it just gave me a green light.

However, you expect that kind of thing at an airport, walking down the street I would be highly pissed off if I was deemed dodgy looking and required a stop and search without due reason.

How is it any different to stopping people for drink driving though, we go to Spain a lot and police are always carrying out stops, (though in Spain they are really looking to fine you for something to put money in the coffers), so what is the answer, we put more police on the streets but with no powers.. I think we do need more community police but even that is not enough in some areas.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think a female officer would have to do that, much the same as at the airport, I have been patted down more times then I care to count, I could walk through naked and the alarms would go off

Right; but then do we always have to ensure that officers work in mixed-sex pairs? If two male officers suspect a female is armed, do they overlook it? Can a female officer search a male?

And most importantly - WHY would it have to be a female officer for girls. The answer is an obvious one; "because being body searched is a huge invasion of personal space and privacy".

And that's why it shouldn't ever be accepted as a normal part of living in a city.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Right; but then do we always have to ensure that officers work in mixed-sex pairs? If two male officers suspect a female is armed, do they overlook it? Can a female officer search a male?

And most importantly - WHY would it have to be a female officer for girls. The answer is an obvious one; "because being body searched is a huge invasion of personal space and privacy".

And that's why it shouldn't ever be accepted as a normal part of living in a city.

They would radio through for a female officer to go to them

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Right; but then do we always have to ensure that officers work in mixed-sex pairs? If two male officers suspect a female is armed, do they overlook it? Can a female officer search a male?

And most importantly - WHY would it have to be a female officer for girls. The answer is an obvious one; "because being body searched is a huge invasion of personal space and privacy".

And that's why it shouldn't ever be accepted as a normal part of living in a city.

Well yes if that is what work, pouring police onto the streets with no powers is pretty useless to me anyway

If you lived in a problem area I think you would be delighted to see people being stopped and searched.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Germyle

Yes and their excuse for not doing so is stupid (something along the lines of racism/racial profiling)

I’m black and I don’t mind being searched every day if it involves ‘possibly’ preventing someone being murdered

I have heard a lot of voices from the communities affected saying the same thing, yet those voice are lost ...why? why are people who are not living in these communities not having their voices heard and why are they being overridden by people who will never by affected ..it's all wrong

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by Germyle

Yes and their excuse for not doing so is stupid (something along the lines of racism/racial profiling)

I’m black and I don’t mind being searched every day if it involves ‘possibly’ preventing someone being murdered

[Tom4784]

The government needs to stop stripping money away from public services, random checks are just that, random (although not really which harms ANY potential effectiveness of it even more)

Instead of calling for this stop gap measure, you should all be calling for more funds for the police so they can maintain a police presence on the streets without having to make up for a lack of presence with pointless stop and searches which just erode our rights.

More police on the street will help more than targeting black people for stop and searches ever would.

[user104658]

To be clear, I have no issue with people being searched if there is a REASON to suspect they're carrying a concealed weapon... Like a visible handle, a bulge in the clothing, pulling clothing down when they see the police, or a report that someone is carrying, etc. - all of those I would say are directly comparable to being pulled over by traffic police.

What I would never be OK with is "random" searches where people could literally be walking to the shops minding their own business and be stopped. It's also VERY unlikely that there wouldn't be an element of racial / socioeconomic profiling going on there. They're not going to stop a guy in a £1000 suit and ask to look through his briefcase, are they. So it's not really "random" at all... If you're stopped, it's someone saying "sorry but you look like a potential criminal to me" - and that's the sort of thing that makes people feel outcast, and makes them more likely to seek belonging outside of "normal society". For example, in a gang.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They're not going to stop a guy in a £1000 suit and ask to look through his briefcase, are they.

To be fair, such a person is less likely to be involved in violent crime.

Spoiler:

Apart from this guy

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be clear, I have no issue with people being searched if there is a REASON to suspect they're carrying a concealed weapon... Like a visible handle, a bulge in the clothing, pulling clothing down when they see the police, or a report that someone is carrying, etc. - all of those I would say are directly comparable to being pulled over by traffic police.

What I would never be OK with is "random" searches where people could literally be walking to the shops minding their own business and be stopped. It's also VERY unlikely that there wouldn't be an element of racial / socioeconomic profiling going on there. They're not going to stop a guy in a £1000 suit and ask to look through his briefcase, are they. So it's not really "random" at all... If you're stopped, it's someone saying "sorry but you look like a potential criminal to me" - and that's the sort of thing that makes people feel outcast, and makes them more likely to seek belonging outside of "normal society". For example, in a gang.

The police stop the people they know are likely to carry. Tough luck if some herbert feels he is being profiled. or some "community leader"

they dont deal with crime, the police do

[Cherie]

as for 1984 when you signed up to social media you ticked that box.

[Maru]

It's legal to carry those things here, but I wouldn't agree to it here if it were illegal when citizens have the ability to arm themselves... but if they are in an area where those people are heavily dependent on the police for their personal safety, then yes, I think citizens should considering allowing it.. and maybe an argument could be made that it would even be a civil obligation in order to get the issue under control... but I personally would not be thrilled with that policy. It puts officers in additional danger when those stops go sideways and it also puts regular citizens through additional duress for the sake of improving community safety... I don't think it would be a deterrent. It wouldn't be often enough with the amount of staff that most agencies keep. I just think it's just leading to things like more corruption in the police, and an expanded state and loss of public trust... all which may lead to more crime anyway, or at least additional problems that may even offset the gains. It may not even make people feel less safe, for a number of reasons, but also because of the increased police presence...

It's like when we go to the airport in the US and they have additional security. There will be soldiers in uniform who are fully armed. Sure, it makes us feel safer in that... well these guys got my back... but then we are also more conscious when we walk into areas where they are not at... so it is a constant reminder in some ways.

[Beso]

I predict a riot.

[jaxie]

I have to agree with much of what has been said about parenting. That is the most important foundation in any kid's life and can make all the difference in regard to whether they get into trouble of any kind or not. I think a good solid home and some discipline weights the advantages for children.

But there are also outside factors that can influence, even when children have had a good stable upbringing and also having a rubbish childhood doesn't always mean you are destined for the dark side either.

With regard to stop and search specifically it is far from the ideal solution to knife crime but if that's all that is on the table, because how can you police peoples intent, then so be it. Some action is better than no action.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have to agree with much of what has been said about parenting. That is the most important foundation in any kid's life and can make all the difference in regard to whether they get into trouble of any kind or not. I think a good solid home and some discipline weights the advantages for children.

But there are also outside factors that can influence, even when children have had a good stable upbringing and also having a rubbish childhood doesn't always mean you are destined for the dark side either.

With regard to stop and search specifically it is far from the ideal solution to knife crime but if that's all that is on the table, because how can you police peoples intent, then so be it. Some action is better than no action.

True Jaxie, and what is being overlooked by some on here, is that the very POSSIBILITY of being 'Stopped and Searched' could be ENOUGH of a DETERRENT to dissuade some young people from carrying knives or other lethal weapons and as the maxim goes; If you pack a gun you'll end up using it one day', so just ONE child dissuaded justifies 'Stop and Search' - in my opinion.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

True Jaxie, and what is being overlooked by some on here, is that the very POSSIBILITY of being 'Stopped and Searched' could be ENOUGH of a DETERRENT to dissuade some young people from carrying knives or other lethal weapons and as the maxim goes; If you pack a gun you'll end up using it one day', so just ONE child dissuaded justifies 'Stop and Search' - in my opinion.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have to agree with much of what has been said about parenting. That is the most important foundation in any kid's life and can make all the difference in regard to whether they get into trouble of any kind or not. I think a good solid home and some discipline weights the advantages for children.

But there are also outside factors that can influence, even when children have had a good stable upbringing and also having a rubbish childhood doesn't always mean you are destined for the dark side either.

With regard to stop and search specifically it is far from the ideal solution to knife crime but if that's all that is on the table, because how can you police peoples intent, then so be it. Some action is better than no action.

You are so right. You can be a great parent but if your child gets mixed up with the wrong company then anything can happen. You can teach your child right from wrong but they can be drawn into wrong doings with a fear of being 'weak'. It's tough being a parent and as good as you think you are..out of your sight who knows what they are getting involved in..getting influenced in...even getting bullied into something they know is wrong but don't have the maturity to get out of it.

[Kazanne]

I saw an interview about this yesterday ,two policemen talking to a gang of youths,while one was talking the others were making gun gestures and giggling behind,so there is no respect from these people for the police ,they have no respect for anyone,I'm not sure a larger police presence will make much difference,but it's worth a try,but given the climate and mindset of these gangs if they want to kill,they will and no amount of police will stop them.I also noticed all of the gang had their faces covered !!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I saw an interview about this yesterday ,two policemen talking to a gang of youths,while one was talking the others were making gun gestures and giggling behind,so there is no respect from these people for the police ,they have no respect for anyone,I'm not sure a larger police presence will make much difference,but it's worth a try,but given the climate and mindset of these gangs if they want to kill,they will and no amount of police will stop them.I also noticed all of the gang had their faces covered !!

Well exactly but this is also why random stop and search is unlikely to actually make any difference to the numbers hurt and killed in knife crime... The people who are likely to go so far as to actually stab someone aren't going to be deterred by the possibility of being searched, because they just don't care... They'll happily take the risk and carry one anyway.

[Ammi]

..I think respect for the police also comes with community policing from an early age as the ‘first solution’...so that small children don’t see police as the ‘enemy’, as it were but... they do see the importance of policing is society and respect it..and that community policing progresses to teen years etc the police being active in community projects and focus for young people...all working together and all respecting each other...

[bots]

Apart from the obvious invasion into personal privacy, the act of stop and search is demeaning to the individual. It implies guilt whether proven or not.

If we could put 100% trust into the police and know that they always acted with the best intentions, then at a stretch it could be seen as acceptable. Unfortunately, the police are not made up of 100% saints. Some of the biggest crooks in the land find their way into the police force. I could also see this type of activity being contracted out to the private sector, which opens it up even more to abuse.

While it may seem like a quick fix, I think it would ultimately lead to more problems than it solved. It's never a good idea to implement new procedures to combat a single type of event, because it never ends up working out that way. The knock on effects would be considerable

[Cherie]

Funnily enough when I was out and about yesterday I saw two vehicles pulled over by the police could have been they just had a tail light missing though...

[Cherie]

Occasionally at my sons College they have those arches that you walk though that pick up if you are carryng a knife, he says most of the students are happy to walk through it..and as a parent I don't have an issue with it either, I don't want to think of my son sitting next to someone who is carrying a knife in class

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Occasionally at my sons College they have those arches that you walk though that pick up if you are carryng a knife, he says most of the students are happy to walk through it..and as a parent I don't have an issue with it either, I don't want to think of my son sitting next to someone who is carrying a knife in class

There's a pretty big difference between metal detectors and having someone actively stick their hands inside your coat / up and down your body, though. The biggest concern is the invasion of personal space, surely. Some people are fine with that, and that's great... but some people are really not OK with strangers having the right to pat them up and down.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There's a pretty big difference between metal detectors and having someone actively stick their hands inside your coat / up and down your body, though. The biggest concern is the invasion of personal space, surely. Some people are fine with that, and that's great... but some people are really not OK with strangers having the right to pat them up and down.

Fair enough, though if you get pulled over at the airport if you want to proceed you have to put it, and if you don't then its bye bye your holidays, the uptake at airports is 100 per cent, is it so much to ask to stop some kid being murdered? it would take a few seconds out of your day.